will you be missing board flipping????

[Mangal Oemie]

As a BGS player who supports specific factions, I board flipped. Not because I wanted to, but it was simply the only way to get a reasonable amount of missions for a specific faction, regardless of whether it is in Boom or Expansion state, both of which should generate plenty of missions. But the board doesn't do that, so a 250-280 ton cargo Python needs to flip the board multiple times not to get a full load of 20 (I am completely allied with these factions, so cargo missions will come in 50-180 ton batches) but even just 5-10.

Since we know that the new dedicated mission server will not add more missions, nor doesn't fix the issues the mission board currently has (i.e. generating missions for a state that is no longer active), this is going to be trouble for BGS work.

However, given what we've seen of the BGS in the Beta, a non-functional mission board is probably not going to be the biggest problem. Maybe combat scenarios will now actually work in Live, instead of bonds (or in addition to bonds). We don't know yet whether elections will change or remain a 3-4 day conflict, vs. the 7 day armed conflict. And we still have to work out how multiple faction states per system present for a faction will really play out. Finally, the game even pre-Chapter 4 is now suffering through some BGS bugs, so who knows... We're expecting full BGS meltdown for the next couple of weeks before things stabilize.

 

[Hellakitty]

CBA to read all the thread, so what's happening to board flipping and when?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

CBA to read all the thread, so what's happening to board flipping and when?

Mission board going to a centralised server so all modes will have same mission board. This was done for various reasons but 1 effect will be no more refreshing the mission board to max out your mission allotment

As for when..... All being well, tomorrow (11th December)

 

[peppi]

some one mentioned that people can not expect to have it all in a week and i totally agree with that

you can call me crazy or what ever but i play like 200+ hours in 2 weeks (according the stats)
so i would expect to have at least a corvette in 4-6 months payed for with rankings and fully fitted for combat that is 1600 hours to 2400 hours of game time wouldn'd you agree ?

why ?
because i love this game for its combat options
exploration is not really my thing i need it but then only for materials etc etc

the game started for me when i had my rankings and my ships
until that time it was terrible to play and i was happy with flipping,grinding,stacking or what ever you would call it
so i could finally begin to play the game as i would like it

but hey like i say this game is not time efficient
and the changes did not do the time efficieny any good

 

[bigity]

I absolutely will miss it; on page 2 a Dev quote was given which confirms that the missions will not be increased, they're just locking off board flipping, which means that yet again, Frontier have simply tried to slow down progress, rather than actually improve gameplay.

And here's why I'll miss it; Not for the money, or the Naval rank grind; I completed those years ago, when it was much easier; but I'd gladly see it be easier again for those still behind me. My "ranks" aren't more special by making you miserable so you are less likely to catch up with me. If anything, true "explorers" don't worry how easily others follow them once they've found the path, only that they beat the challenge they set for themselves.

No, it's still annoying to see it go because the rest of the game is still so horribly empty and balanced, and freezing the missions whilst blocking board switching will break the Background Simulation. Right now, if you've got two equal sides trying to push a faction, whilst there apparently an influence cap on each individual, it's much easier to simply kill innocents and authority vessels in a system to work against the controlling faction. You can balance that out in a reasonable time just by doing missions. However that's only with Board Flipping; without that it doesn't generate enough that can be completed fast enough. And if you try bounty hunting, there simply isn't enough spawn in an RES, indeed the more you bounty hunt the more the NPCs slowly get replaced with Authority vessels until you're down to a single Wanted NPC maybe spawning one at a time. Which you could always get around be resetting the instance...?

Now, you won't be able to equally defend your system until it falls into one of the War states, and you can fight in a Conflict Zone.

You could also go and collect exploration, but as I'm not up on the BGS changes, I have no idea if that remains practical on Beta. I do know however they've slowed down the whole act to once more please the tiny numbers of players who mistake grind for achievement, so I'm not hopeful that the initial honk without revealing all the system bodies will return the same Influence.

I'm honestly dreading this patch.

Yup, another case of people shouting down something/praising a change when they have no idea of the consequences to the larger game outside of their immersion.

 

[kromc5]

Never used for cargo but will greatly miss it for mats and passengers.

 

[jacozilla]

Never used for cargo but will greatly miss it for mats and passengers.

For paired systems which are optimal for running passenger missions, like say Robigo to Sothis via Hauser/Robigo Mines to Sirius Atmospheric missions, the loss of flipping will be somewhat of a loss for passengers but much more for mats.

Generally, while they may not be the best missions, you can easily fill your Anaconda at Hauser or Python at Robigo Mines without a single flip. Flipping helps for sure, but if I had to mental math it, maybe ~20% at best increase to payout yields.

However, for mats - there are two considerations - first of course is the most obvious - correct type of mats, and second is how many of those mats. Taking devils advocate position for a second, it's quite legitimate to argue board flipping just so you can get the (5) bioconductors reward vs the (4) or (3) might be silly. But if you want bioconductors and all you see are MEF, then you either wait 15 min (current) or 10 min (next update).

You can't even argue you can materials trade because you can't trade data mats for manufactured mats or vice versa.

So my take on mats and passengers if you're in a optimal paired systems location to run passengers, we'll have some loss of efficiency - which I won't like but can live with - for passengers, but a lot more loss on the grinding for G5 mats via missions because it won't just be semantics of 3 vs 4 vs 5 G5 mat reward, it will be you don't see the type of mat you want at all and no means to board flip like we do now.

TLDR - I will miss board flipping a LOT more for impact on my G5 mats grinding vs passengers, and unlike some of the pitchfork crowd that got flipping nerfed claiming loudly it was always about the cash - won't miss it at all from my credit earning pov. G5 mats >>> credits as my limiting reagent for ED play

 

[ALien8ed]

will you be missing board flipping????

Absolutely.

Have been constantly flipping for years and made an absolute fortune in the process.

Goodbye board flipping, you have served me well.

 

[ZakNaZul]

Yes i will. Now i should spend more time grinding before i can do whatever i want to do.
Those who seek IMMERRRRSSION - could never do this. But they cant. They should broke IMMERSION for themselves and blame someone else for it.
Also x4 is indie-like game with endless bugs, autistic sound-fx and crap controls. Enjoy.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Yup, another case of people shouting down something/praising a change when they have no idea of the consequences to the larger game outside of their immersion.

you are free to like it or not like it, and i respect that but regardless of your view it is no more or no less viable than anyone elses, I really have no issue with people disagreeing with stuff, it is afterall the point of discussion forums but it really grinds my gears when folk like to talk down other peoples views as not being important or that they are stupid or ignorant.

I have had plenty of hrs in the game and have a fair understanding of the mechanics of the game (outside of PvP of which i know little) and i still think i have a fair grasp of the problems that board hopping introduces in terms of balancing the game, as well as the problems that it helps mitigate. Overall imo this is a positive step, you dont but enough already with the digs about lack of comprehension etc just because you disagree. I understand, i just disagree with you!.

Also x4 is indie-like game with endless bugs, autistic sound-fx and crap controls. Enjoy.

WTH is an indie-like game? iirc back in the day FD used to use their indie status quite a lot, personally i would say calling a game dev an indie is actually high praise rather than say a AAA like EA.

crap controls i cant argue with, whilst i would not say X games are crap myself but EDs are imo sublime and a shining light on the game.

however autistic sound................ really.... ? grow up!.

X4 just launched and like all X games it has a few bugs.... give it a few months and i am sure it will be much better. I totally respect the X games however i must admit i always found them quite daunting to get into myself.

 

[sollisb]

Mission board going to a centralised server so all modes will have same mission board. This was done for various reasons but 1 effect will be no more refreshing the mission board to max out your mission allotment

As for when..... All being well, tomorrow (11th December)

Except relogging and causing a mission list refresh A mere bump in the road

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Except relogging and causing a mission list refresh A mere bump in the road

i didnt know that..... mechanically that is interesting, if the mission list is coming from a centralised server i would be interested to know why relogging completely out of the game still causes a refresh.

I guess it just goes to show, no matter what FD try to do, if people really want to exploit they will find a way.......

 

[sollisb]

i didnt know that..... mechanically that is interesting, if the mission list is coming from a centralised server i would be interested to know why relogging completely out of the game still causes a refresh.

I guess it just goes to show, no matter what FD try to do, if people really want to exploit they will find a way.......

The missions will now be generated on a single server. Players take those missions, so the list must be updated. The list is randomly displayed, so by relogging, (I will test it later) one assumes the list must be regenerated for incoming new connection.

Not sure how logging out to make a coffee and then logging back in again is in any way an exploit. And please, using 'exploit' in the vain hope that I might feel offended, merely causes me to smile even more

Edit: It seems I always have to clarify things; If I really wanted to 'exploit' Elite, have no illusions, I could do it, in my sleep. For the record, I'm not into 'cheating'. Using given game mechanics yes, cheating is a no no.

 

[Titler]

I disagree. If anything, it's a step in the right direction to balancing the BGS - combined with tweaking the influence from destroying ships. Perhaps you and I are going about the BGS differently, but since switching my focus to politics, rather than personal reputation & profit, I cannot complete ++++ and +++++ missions fast enough for the factions I'm trying to elevate (without ever flipping).

As for exploration data, iirc, that changed some time ago - from transaction to value - which means the increased exploration payouts with the new system will actually benefit using exploration for affecting the BGS.

I don't believe this is true; when I returned from my last true exploration journey, to Beagle Point, I handed in 180m worth of data, and it only raised the influence of my friends faction by 1.3%. I could do that in a few hours worth of missioning. The advice on Discord and elsewhere is that you need to hand in each mission singularly, which I did not do, as otherwise it calculates the value of the page, and that's tiny.

As for individual missions, despite controlling the system and often being in Boom from previous missioning, the board generates between 5 and 10ish missions for a large ship per refresh; if you're lucky 2 will go to the same target, and maybe 3 will be of a particular mission type so they can be done without swapping ships. You absolutely aren't doing those anywhere near the efficiency of just brainlessly shooting the authority vessels; with board flipping you could generate an entire cargo hold for one or a few targets, without it you're looking at 10 minutes minimum flight time per mission there and back, so maybe 6 missions an hour and a tiny fraction of the influence.

In my case, I've had a particularly obsessed stalker from another game community (Frontier have confirmed it's just one other person doing it) try and overthrow the faction just because I supported it for the past 8 months or so (alongside countless other hateful and outright criminal behaviour); when he gets particularly disturbed, and on days off I've tested the equivalent missioning time, and you're looking at over 8 hours worth to balance him out. Mostly I just put in a few here and there to replace the daily murder-hobo slow, addle-minded maliciousness... but that's based on board stacking and having finalised top tier ships for maximum efficiency.

Without that, and with any BGS balancing of the value of NPC killing only theoretical at this point, it just makes the whole thing slower, grindier and far less fulfilling now. What would be the point of having an engineered Imperial Cutter or Beluga if you can't fill them?

Sure I can take on Wing Assasinations solo in my Corvette... but I don't even bother with the fighter escort any more now I've an Elite Crew. But again, if I can't stack missions so I can go from target to target, I'll be spending most of my time sitting in Supercruise heading back and forth from the station.

FDev really, really need to stop listening to those who are looking for time sinks instead of life quality.

 

[Morbad]

The list is randomly displayed, so by relogging, (I will test it later) one assumes the list must be regenerated for incoming new connection.

One of the side effects of the separate mission server should be to prevent relogging from doing this. You should connect to the same list as before.

Not sure how logging out to make a coffee and then logging back in again is in any way an exploit.

Are you logging out to make coffee as a pretense to refresh the mission board? Is the mission board intended to be used in this way? Is using the mission board in this way going to give you any advantage?

If the answers are yes, no, yes, then that would be cheating via exploit, by definition.

I don't believe this is true; when I returned from my last true exploration journey, to Beagle Point, I handed in 180m worth of data, and it only raised the influence of my friends faction by 1.3%.

Did you hand it in all at once?

 

[Riverside]

One of the side effects of the separate mission server should be to prevent relogging from doing this. You should connect to the same list as before.

The list of missions can be longer than those that are displayed. If you take a mission, exit the mission tab & re-enter you may see another mission added in it's place. Over time some missions disappear and are replaced by new ones too. AFAIK there is no need to exit to the menu, just leave the mission board & re-enter it.

 

[Factabulous]

The list of missions can be longer than those that are displayed. If you take a mission, exit the mission tab & re-enter you may see another mission added in it's place. Over time some missions disappear and are replaced by new ones too. AFAIK there is no need to exit to the menu, just leave the mission board & re-enter it.

Yup - a classic is Donation missions - they often spawn a follow-up mission, and if you just go back to the main menu and re-enter the mission board it will show up.

 

[sollisb]

One of the side effects of the separate mission server should be to prevent relogging from doing this. You should connect to the same list as before.



Are you logging out to make coffee as a pretense to refresh the mission board? Is the mission board intended to be used in this way? Is using the mission board in this way going to give you any advantage?

If the answers are yes, no, yes, then that would be cheating via exploit, by definition.



Did you hand it in all at once?

I hear ya. And agree in the main. However the mission system is not fit for purpose. If logging out and then back in gives me a better mission list, then that's a failure in the system. Logging out and then back in is perfectly legal. Wing missions were never intended to be done by the same player using multiple accounts, but I still do it. Is that exploiting too?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

The missions will now be generated on a single server. Players take those missions, so the list must be updated. The list is randomly displayed, so by relogging, (I will test it later) one assumes the list must be regenerated for incoming new connection.

Not sure how logging out to make a coffee and then logging back in again is in any way an exploit. And please, using 'exploit' in the vain hope that I might feel offended, merely causes me to smile even more

Edit: It seems I always have to clarify things; If I really wanted to 'exploit' Elite, have no illusions, I could do it, in my sleep. For the record, I'm not into 'cheating'. Using given game mechanics yes, cheating is a no no.

I am a straight shooter... if i wanted to try to insult you i would say something insulting.- i dont want to insult you btw just to make that clear! - ....... The board flipping IS an exploit, it is using the instance changes to gain an advantage in a way not intended.... this was confirmed by the devs.

I struggle to see how you can argue it, ergo fully logging off and logging back in again immediately to reinstate said board flipping is surely the same?.... That being said, I was not using the term to try to anger you at all, just calling it what it is! (as i see it). You are free to think it is not an exploit however and call it a feature if you like.

(and logging off to go and get a coffee is not in the context you or i were talking about, so on this it is you being disingenuous not I )

(btw the 5:1 engineering exploit was not considered to be an exploit by the ones abusing it either apparently!)

 

[tomalus]

Still too many wing missions on the board.Is there a change in mission generation with today patch?