I am not responsible for their ridiculous behaviour.
What have you done FD, exploration is ruined with this garbage.
- Thread starter Jazzy
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I am not responsible for their ridiculous behaviour.
Bit too strong for my self-honesty to agree on strong hyperbole like "ruined", but I'll just describe it as I really dislike the new FSS system as well - not because of what it can or can't do - from mapping entire system point of view, it does indeed seem faster than old system of having to honk + fly to all the planets.
Doesn't matter though - I just detest the mini-game it has become. It's the interdiction mini-game for exploration.
I really don't like asking for features others like to be taken away, so my preference is just put ADS and old system back in, and allow players to make their own choice - use up an internal slot and go with old ADS / honk system of reveal all bodies but no info or mapping, or use 'free' new FSS. Heck, call it Advanced vs Basic exploration and put it in the ship Options mode switch.
Since FSS is so much superior based on pro-FSS crowd comments, what's the argument for giving players who want old legacy system the choice to flip their ship in mode settings to old way? Can't be for any 'advantages' because FSS is better, faster, superior right?
Doesn't matter though - I just detest the mini-game it has become. It's the interdiction mini-game for exploration.
I really don't like asking for features others like to be taken away, so my preference is just put ADS and old system back in, and allow players to make their own choice - use up an internal slot and go with old ADS / honk system of reveal all bodies but no info or mapping, or use 'free' new FSS. Heck, call it Advanced vs Basic exploration and put it in the ship Options mode switch.
Since FSS is so much superior based on pro-FSS crowd comments, what's the argument for giving players who want old legacy system the choice to flip their ship in mode settings to old way? Can't be for any 'advantages' because FSS is better, faster, superior right?
I didn't have too much trouble with the FSS, the DSS was a bit of a mare though...I think I had to go to "multicrew" section to rebind some keys for it to work with my gamepad. Overall I was initially very skeptical of the new FSS mechanics, then liked it, then skeptical again...but now I like it again. In all honesty it's not that much of a time sink to scan a system (albeit undoubtably slower than the original honk). But after that I have my system map and can then cherry pick the planets/moons to fly up to old school to investigate closer and map.
If I'm honest I'm not really enjoying the "probe mapping" mini game all that much. It's got old very fast, WAY slower than the old system, I still have to SC up to the planet, usually closer so that takes longer and ok the old mechanic had zero gameplay and was boring waiting for the scan to finish but it was considerably more efficient. I'd have preferred a more automated system but with some manual gameplay to speed up the process. I've started several times to attempt a full system mapping but gave up after 3-4 planets as it's very repetitive once you've sussed the aiming points for the various sized planets. Scanning gas giants used to be the fastest (because they were so huge the old scanning completed quite quickly compared to small moons) but now 20-22 probes takes a LONG time to get that efficiency bonus and rings can muck up the method of lobbing probes to hit the back, I've had to laboriously manoeuvre around some gas giants to find that last bit of the planet not probed, very time consuming. Anyone got hints on probing ringed gas giants faster?
If I'm honest I'm not really enjoying the "probe mapping" mini game all that much. It's got old very fast, WAY slower than the old system, I still have to SC up to the planet, usually closer so that takes longer and ok the old mechanic had zero gameplay and was boring waiting for the scan to finish but it was considerably more efficient. I'd have preferred a more automated system but with some manual gameplay to speed up the process. I've started several times to attempt a full system mapping but gave up after 3-4 planets as it's very repetitive once you've sussed the aiming points for the various sized planets. Scanning gas giants used to be the fastest (because they were so huge the old scanning completed quite quickly compared to small moons) but now 20-22 probes takes a LONG time to get that efficiency bonus and rings can muck up the method of lobbing probes to hit the back, I've had to laboriously manoeuvre around some gas giants to find that last bit of the planet not probed, very time consuming. Anyone got hints on probing ringed gas giants faster?
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It's almost as if he barely even tried...
You guys need to get your story straight, is the FSS "too simplistic" and "a non puzzle" or is it "too convoluted with too many keybinds"? If you can't make up your mind you're really just telling Frontier they hit the Goldilocks sweet spot where some bears complain the
porridge is too hot and others say it's too cold, leaving the only logical conclusion that it's really just right.
porridge is too hot and others say it's too cold, leaving the only logical conclusion that it's really just right.
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My initial response to the new exploration set-up was horror. Now, after an hours effort to learn, I’m finding the new system really rewarding. I love it. I guess, initially, I just didn’t like change. Simple as that. A 5,000 road trip into the black in the new exploration way of doing things just netted me 35m. I’ve never had returns like that before. Loved every aspect of exploration now and from not really doing much for years I’ll be doing much more exploration in future, well done FD.
The new keybinds need a little thought - maybe that's it OP!
It's not that the FDevs didn't give us a clue as to where these new key binds where - (!)
The most difficult one was the Planetgolf mode bind being in the Multicrew section.
What took a while was getting all the keys bound then trying them out in the game, then going back & shifting them around the keys to make them more 'ease of hand moments' when using the new mechanics.
Don't know what the console pads are like, I'm sorted now on my laptop & enjoying the game again.
It's not that the FDevs didn't give us a clue as to where these new key binds where - (!)
The most difficult one was the Planetgolf mode bind being in the Multicrew section.
What took a while was getting all the keys bound then trying them out in the game, then going back & shifting them around the keys to make them more 'ease of hand moments' when using the new mechanics.
Don't know what the console pads are like, I'm sorted now on my laptop & enjoying the game again.
Heh. I kind of agree with the OP. During the beta I tried to setup the FSS and it was quite a bit of trial and error, setting up bindings to various things then pressing them to see what they actually did and then trying to optimise it ... It was a repeat of the external camera fiasco, so you'd think they might have learned. But no.
That said, now I've got it setup, it's really easy to use. It's a lot more involved than the old ADS god honk, even if it's just make-play. The fixed-point orrery view makes it more interesting when scanning planets - you can see the orbits, especially for moons and such. Then of course there's the orrery view itself which I guess was a by-product of the new interface.
I still don't like all the modes and such, but I think the new mechanics are a vast improvemnt on the "hold the button for 5 seconds" we had before...
That said, now I've got it setup, it's really easy to use. It's a lot more involved than the old ADS god honk, even if it's just make-play. The fixed-point orrery view makes it more interesting when scanning planets - you can see the orbits, especially for moons and such. Then of course there's the orrery view itself which I guess was a by-product of the new interface.
I still don't like all the modes and such, but I think the new mechanics are a vast improvemnt on the "hold the button for 5 seconds" we had before...
Would you mind suggesting what you think those are? I've been having a break for the last 6 months or so and I'd like to set up and play with the new stuff with as little pain as possible
I've installed the update but haven't fired it up yet.
The real issue based on my experience and seeing others is this:
1. It's a regression of technology. Game is set at a point where we punch holes in reality to hyperspace jump to other star systems, sometimes over 200ly away thanks to using Neutron boost (and not dying to neutron radiation from said ejection cone and magnetic fields), but now has to use a 2d overlay mini-game to figure out the planets instead of instantly knowing the rough type (waterworld,earthlike, icybody, etc) as per old ADS, back to using technology that's present in real life right now and not 1300 years in the future. We also can do rudimentary reverse engineering of vastly superior alien species (guardian and thargoid) but can't make a proper sensor anymore.
2. It's only faster if you were the rare "completionist" type who HAS to scan EVERY SINGLE THING in EVERY SINGLE SYSTEM. If you were like the majority of previous "True" explorers (aka everyone who left the bubble for the black, Sag A*, beagle point, Formadine Rift, etc) most time was spent looking to see if a system had an interesting layout like Black Hole + Neutron + Earthlike / Water World with landable moon. If we found something like that we might be tempted to scan the whole system to claim our find, otherwise we just snag the earthlike or star of interest and move on.
3. In relation to point 2, new system fosters what I dare say are "wannabe" explorers who waited for an excuse to try something new to leave the bubble and thus don't have the spark that the void calls to us crazies who go deep into space. These are "pretend" explorers... much like Jed Munoz (reference to the amazing Blind Pew's videos on Youtube, love that guy)....
4. New system for some can be a strain on the eyes for some. To summarize, there was something like this in World of Warcraft... when your character would die you'd enter the world from a graveyard as a ghost and have to run to your corpse, but there was a toggle in the game for "death effect" leaving it on created this garish white/grey ghost world that would suddenly blind you (often from dark environments), but you could toggle off to make everything a soft blue instead and not strain your eyes. FSS feels like an eye strain much like WoW's Death Effect, only we can't disable it or just have it seemlessly work with everything else.
5. FSS requires MORE keybindings in an already keybinding cluttered game. And if you're someone who HEAVILY remaps keybindings, finding working configurations for bindings is a chore... and if you wanna reset to default and then remap around the new FSS default bindings you might have to screenshot every setting in the controls menu to not forget some of your settings and then manually replug everything in. That kind of game design is a very poor choice for a game in extremely late 2018.
6. FDEV / Frontier ignored player feedback (limited as it was) from Beta and launched a MAJOR change that since most people aren't watching/playing Beta or viewing the forums, got hit hard by as a surprise. Only difference is since majority of community doesn't post on the forums, they've just quit in frustration (And why not when other dev studios are now successful by listening to their consumers first instead of board room decisions?). Top that with that Frontier haven't even bothered to release an undoubtedly disappointing PR statement to address our concerns at all (this issue is exploding worse than the idea of Powerplay being Open only), indicates a feeling of them being tone-deaf to our issues.
7. Lack of the option to still use old ADS+SysMap the way we true explorers are used to. Options outright taken from us with a replacement of basically "bend over and take the new system".
EDIT: Just thought of number 8....
8. There used to be systems on major travelled routes / sightseeing destinations (VY Canis Major, certain nebula, Sag A*, Beagle) that would have multiple commanders. Like one took only the main star, next grabbed the nearest moon, commander after that took a single moon, so on and so on . Basically a way of saying in a major huge system of leaving an "I was here" tag for others to see, I've even left my own name in such a system with the old way. Kinda nice to have such a huge list of commanders each taking a single scan and leaving to mark the journey like a flag on a mountaintop. Can't do that anymore with the new system of "Claim all the things".
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This. There is nothing complicated about it, so is it just that people are for some reason trying to find new unique keys/buttons or something?
I can understand a little bit the keybinding problems, but tbh i installed with the beyond update a new HOTAS, so i had to renew all bindings and had to implement the new ones for beyond and compared to other games/sims it is quite userfriendly and i prefer having more options to setup than less, especially if the player have a periferie with HOTAS, Track IR, VR...
„2. It's only faster if you were the rare "completionist" type who HAS to scan EVERY SINGLE THING in EVERY SINGLE SYSTEM. If you were like the majority of previous "True" explorers (aka everyone who left the bubble for the black, Sag A*, beagle point, Formadine Rift, etc) most time was spent looking to see if a system had an interesting layout like Black Hole + Neutron + Earthlike / Water World with landable moon. If we found something like that we might be tempted to scan the whole system to claim our find, otherwise we just snag the earthlike or star of interest and move on.“
You can see what kind of planet you may find in the system when you check the scanner bar at the bottom of the FSS(?)Screen. There you get a good overfew what to expect...
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Good thing that businesses, particularly those answerable to shareholders, don't run on Goldilocks fables. By your logic and statement, you're saying it's just fine to write off up to half your customer base if the other half is ok with it.
The new In N' Out burger mantra - 'we're just fine with half our customers thinking the new menu item is crap, because the other half love it!'....50%, we're #1.
I don't care to see a garbage waveform telling me what kind of planets are out there, I wanna honk, check system map, and be on my way if it looks like garbage. Not play figure out where it is.
![[Diplomacy] Carnegie](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/123/123809.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
Or perhaps the fact that players dislike it for a variety of different reasons would suggest that entirely removing the ADS mechanism wasn't a good move.
Then you're screwed!
Pretty much. Thank goodness other game studios have devs that still care that will gladly take my money. Plus the lack of devs communicating on this issue for PR control one way or the other is even worse. We don't even get the decency of a PR statement spiel to try and placate us, instead just silence... on an issue even bigger than the Powerplay one.
They're probably watching the metrics - no point in responding to a bunch of shouty neckbeards if the majority of the playerbase is having fun. IIRC it was a looong time before FDev commented on the original Engineers unlock requirements and recipes, let alone the actual mechanics.
Maybe there'll be some scraps thrown our way in v4.2
IIRC they communicated a lot about the FSS changes.
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