Patch Notes Update Update 3.3.01

[Azirphaeli]

There is no information to support either direction, it is not a factor. If it is a lot of work, a lot of time was wasted. If it was not a lot of work not so much time was wasted.

Do you now understand that the old discovery process didn't need to be removed and that that time taken to remove it was wasted?

Your response was "shrug, who knows" so, as it seems... you do not understand yet that it needed to be removed and seem to be unable to back up the claim that it didn't need to be removed.. Ignorance of how development works doesn't make the problems with keeping unwanted legacy code in software disappear.

My connection to servers keeps crashing ....

it is getting really annoying ...I even tried to close my firewall but it did not do anything. Any ideas why?

The servers are completely busted right now, and it seems nearly all the staff is on holiday.

 

[Riverside]

Your response was "shrug, who knows" so, as it seems... you do not understand yet that it needed to be removed. Ignorance of how development works doesn't make the problems with keeping unwanted legacy code in software disappear.

I think you are trying to make this a personal 'battle of wills'. I laid out an explanation 24hrs ago in this very thread. That you choose not to read it is fine, that you repeat an argument already resolved is not.

Lets put the amount of work aside, because it is a sticking point for you and I have already gone over it.

the game retains it's full functionality in explored space, I'd like to be able to continue to fit a module that offers that functionality in unexplored and partially explored space. This would not affect your game in any negative way.

Do you now understand that the old discovery process didn't need to be removed?

 

[Shoguno]

Azirphaeli thanks buddy ...I guess they drank too much BAILEY'S But seriously they did not think about people are on holiday's as well and that we play ELITE on these day's LOL I mean ... they should at least keep one or 2 Dev's online at ALL time .... I worked at IBM servers tower in Montreal, as a security agent( back in the day's) and there was always IT employees all the time, Even on the holiday's.

 

[Azirphaeli]

I think you are trying to make this a personal 'battle of wills'. I laid out an explanation 24hrs ago in this very thread. That you choose not to read it is fine, that you repeat an argument already resolved is not.

Lets put the amount of work aside, because it is a sticking point for you and I have already gone over it.

Except you haven't done anything except say "I don't know if it would be work so I am going to say it wouldn't be." That's not an explanation at all, it's just a refusal to accept that which is true.

Do you now understand that the old discovery process didn't need to be removed?

I fully understand that the ADS had to be removed.

 

[Riverside]

I fully understand that the ADS had to be removed.

In this thread I expressed disappointment that the ADS had not yet been reinstated. Most of the rest of this thread seems to have become some sort of concerted effort to dismiss the ADS as a placeholder, or a god honk, or any number of other disparaging terms. It's okay to not like the thing, now there is an alternative.

But the full functionality of the ADS is still in the game. The code that makes that feature work is still present & however much maintenance it required to keep that working is still required. No time has been saved, no benefit has been gained by it's removal, either to the Devs or to the playerbase. There is no exploit that outweighs the cost of fitting the module, the meta is the FSS by a wide margin, and having that module in the game would have no effect on anyone that chose not to fit one.

I have said all of this and explained the reasoning several times. It didn't need to be removed. Do you understand this? I appreciate you may want it to be gone for personal reasons, but there was no benefit to the game in it's removal, and no downside to retaining it. Retaining it would have saved dev time, removing it was work that didn't need to be done.



ETA For clarity I will add once again that I therefore think it should be reinstated, and am disappointed that it has not yet happened.

 

[Azirphaeli]

In this thread I expressed disappointment that the ADS had not yet been reinstated. Most of the rest of this thread seems to have become some sort of concerted effort to dismiss the ADS as a placeholder, or a god honk, or any number of other disparaging terms. It's okay to not like the thing, now there is an alternative.

But the full functionality of the ADS is still in the game. The code that makes that feature work is still present & however much maintenance it required to keep that working is still required. No time has been saved, no benefit has been gained by it's removal, either to the Devs or to the playerbase. There is no exploit that outweighs the cost of fitting the module, the meta is the FSS by a wide margin, and having that module in the game would have no effect on anyone that chose not to fit one.

I have said all of this and explained the reasoning several times. It didn't need to be removed. Do you understand this? I appreciate you may want it to be gone for personal reasons, but there was no benefit to the game in it's removal, and no downside to retaining it. Retaining it would have saved dev time, removing it was work that didn't need to be done.

No, the ADS as it was is not still in the game, as when you enter a system that hasn't been discovered there is no ADS functionality. This alone is proof that things have changed. Leaving both the ADS as it was in the game along with the new system results in more work for FDEV than there is continuing to develop as it is now.

Now quit putting words into my mouth, it needed to be removed and that's all the reason that was required for it to be removed. Has nothing to do with personal reasons or because I "don't like it" (which isn't true). It's gone because it needed to be gone.

 

[Riverside]

No, the ADS as it was is not still in the game, as when you enter a system that hasn't been discovered there is no ADS functionality. This alone is proof that things have changed. Leaving both the ADS as it was in the game along with the new system results in more work for FDEV than there is continuing to develop as it is now.

Now quit putting words into my mouth, it needed to be removed and that's all the reason that was required for it to be removed. Has nothing to do with personal reasons or because I "don't like it" (which isn't true). It's gone because it needed to be gone.

I realise the way the game works has changed Azirphaeli. You are repeating old ground.

The way the old ADS worked is completely replicated in explored space, if I arrive in a new to me system I see a populated list of unexplored bodies and a populated sysmap. The ADS module allows that same information (ie the game already has the code required to do what the ADS does) in unexplored space, and for systems not that were not previously fully tagged.

The bit that was an issue was apparently the sysmap, which is fully retained. Having bodies marked as [unexplored] is retained too, the difference between what we had before & what we have now is being able to buy the module and the rules that are applied when the player enters a system with untagged bodies.

And then this part, already quoted a few posts ago:

I'd like to be able to continue to fit a module that offers that functionality in unexplored and partially explored space. This would not affect your game in any negative way.

 

[Azirphaeli]

I realise the way the game works has changed Azirphaeli. You are repeating old ground.



The bit that was an issue was apparently the sysmap, which is fully retained. Having bodies marked as [unexplored] is retained too, the difference between what we had before & what we have now is being able to buy the module and the rules that are applied when the player enters a system with untagged bodies.

And then this part, already quoted a few posts ago:

...and your error is in thinking that if the module were installed it would show undiscovered systems which is incorrect. As it has already been stated all throughout the beta:

The ADS was changed to the FSS. It was then made a hidden module in all ships that doesn't take up a slot.

As such, you have the ADS (now called FSS) already fitted, and it doesn't do what you say. Meaning if you could buy the ADS (IE; it wasn't already fitted) it wouldn't do what you say. This means that FDEV would have needed to create and maintain a second legacy module (as I've stated) which would become increasingly more work as the game continued to update.

Therefore, as I've stated, such systems had to be removed. They were replaced with the new discovery method, and then internalized in the ship. The only other option was to make a new FSS module and maintain the old, which makes no sense since it was designed to replace the old method of exploration.

 

[Riverside]

...and your error is in thinking that if the module were installed it would show undiscovered systems which is incorrect. As it has already been stated all throughout the beta:

The ADS was changed to the FSS. It was then made a hidden module in all ships that doesn't take up a slot.

As such, you have the ADS (now called FSS) already fitted, and it doesn't do what you say. Meaning if you could buy the ADS (IE; it wasn't already fitted) it wouldn't do what you say. This means that FDEV would have needed to create and maintain a second legacy module (as I've stated) which would become increasingly more work as the game continued to update.

Therefore, as I've stated, such systems had to be removed. They were replaced with the new discovery method, and then internalized in the ship. The only other option was to make a new FSS module and maintain the old, which makes no sense since it was designed to replace the old method of exploration.

So you are saying that in lore it has been replaced. Of course, that insurmountable obstacle

I'd like to be able to continue to fit a module that offers that functionality in unexplored and partially explored space. This would not affect your game in any negative way.

 

[Azirphaeli]

So you are saying that in lore it has been replaced. Of course, that insurmountable obstacle

Please re-read my post and tell me where I said lore, because I've been consistently explaining this in terms of the games coding.

Ahh, but if only I were saying what you want me to be.. but I guess that's why you need to keep putting words in my mouth. It's so much easier to tear down those strawmen after all then address what is actually written.

 

[Riverside]

Please re-read my post and tell me where I said lore, because I've been consistently explaining this in terms of the games coding.

Yet you are saying the ADS has been replaced, when it hasn't. A new process was created & the old one remains but is no longer accessible in unexplored or partially explored systems. If you travel around a previously explored system that you have not visited before you will see a fully populated sysmap and a bunch of unexplored bodies selectable from the nav panel or HUD, just as before. It's still there, it received a bunch of nice QoL updates, but the module was removed.

Your argument does not stand up Azirphaeli, there was no coding workload justification for the removal of the old process because the old process is still in the game, we just can't buy the module. It simply didn't need to be removed.

Once again I understand that some people wanted an alternative because they didn't like it, they felt it made the reveal too easy and the reveal was something they (and presumably you) wanted to saviour. And a new process has been introduced which does that, which is great. I am not looking to remove anything from how you or anyone else chooses to play, quite the opposite.

 

[aaaabcv]

Moderators, I believe it is that time... could you lock this thread please? It has devolved into people arguing over the FSS / ADS and has almost nothing to do with the update patch notes posted. I am not telling you how to do your job, just that I would do it for you if I could. Thank you for your professionalism, and your time.

You're right probably. But actually I just wanted to thank FD for the feature of the FSS as part of this topic - the patch note. I won't discuss whether someone else likes it or dislikes it. I do and that is reason for me to let FD know of my appreciation. ☺

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

There is a notification in the sysmap that a body has been mapped (this was added following beta feedback I believe). There is no indicator on the HUD which might be useful for some, in practice I haven't felt the need for one because I check the sysmap to consider whether to map another target, and if I am mapping the moons of a gas giant I just do them in alphabetical/number order.

Ahhh cool, (I think)
It will come in handy should I pick up ED again
I retract some of my fairly scathing assessment of ED for not listening

Thanks

 

[aRJay]

At last! So you understand that the old discovery process didn't need to be removed?

This is a game nothing 'needs' to be done.

But essentially no.

 

[Azirphaeli]

Yet you are saying the ADS has been replaced, when it hasn't. A new process was created & the old one remains but is no longer accessible in unexplored or partially explored systems. If you travel around a previously explored system that you have not visited before you will see a fully populated sysmap and a bunch of unexplored bodies selectable from the nav panel or HUD, just as before. It's still there, it received a bunch of nice QoL updates, but the module was removed.

Your argument does not stand up Azirphaeli, there was no coding workload justification for the removal of the old process because the old process is still in the game, we just can't buy the module. It simply didn't need to be removed.

Once again I understand that some people wanted an alternative because they didn't like it, they felt it made the reveal too easy and the reveal was something they (and presumably you) wanted to saviour. And a new process has been introduced which does that, which is great. I am not looking to remove anything from how you or anyone else chooses to play, quite the opposite.

Wrong, just wrong. Frontier replaced the ADS, game wise not lore wise, sorry... with the FSS functionality. Thus, any old ADS module (which we all have by the way, it was given to us if we didn't have it and then placed internally in the ship during the beta, but those of us with the module just had it updated) now works exactly like the FSS because it is the FSS. So it doesn't work exactly like the old ADS because, as you wrote yourself it works the old way "if you travel around a previously explored system". So it changed. So the old ADS doesn't exist because it's been replaced. As such, replacing the old ADS necessitated the removal of the old ADS.

Just because something still works similar to something old doesn't mean the old thing is still there. There's a ton of work that needs to go into even small changes in projects as large as this.

 

[Omnislash.inc]

happy christmas pvpers, frontier ignore us.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/465720-Masslock

 

[Azirphaeli]

happy christmas pvpers, frontier ignore us.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/465720-Masslock

We can't even get into the game due to server issues 90% of attempts. it's not just PVP being ignored.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

happy christmas pvpers, frontier ignore us.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/465720-Masslock

Looks to me like Fdev took early Holiday... without even a "see y'all in the new year suckers"

 

[peppi]

this is getting pretty anoying atm
thnx guys you proberbly fxt 1 bug and screwwed another part

no more mission targets pop up and no more mission USS
big thnx for this update before the holidays

i bet sales are dropping like a meteor from the sky at the moment
google is your best friend but not for FD atm

maybe time to abandon this game and start with another game where they have skilled devs who know what they are doing
and a game with some respectable staff who knows what they are doing
cause i think here its a big chaos atm in and outside of the game

 

[Hellfire85]

Worse instancing issues in months, more shadow rams and shadow shots taken in all the time I've played this game, freezes, connection errors, wing members not showing up, NPCs not appearing in CZ or other locations, invisible enemies, new ships that need no skill to be flown...

Seriously FDev, is this a joke? I know you guys have done a lot of work to bring the new update, but why pushing out an update that is so buggy and instead of fixing the broken multiplayer aspects, you put in space crystals, squids, and voiced NPCs... I mean, okay, cool. Brings the galaxy to life, but if that means having an unstable game for 90% of the time, I gladly miss out on the new features and content...