FD utter failure: engineering brought to an excess

[sollisb]

No, it's an opinion. An opinion is not a point. The act of killing 'innocent players' is the act of killing other players. Whether they're 'innocent' or not is also not a point. You're addressing gameplay as if it's synonymous with behaviour. This is the same argument that people use to try to convince people that video games cause mass shootings, and has been debunked over and over and over again, but I'll do it one more time for you.

One of the gankers I know personally is an RAAF F/A-18E Super Hornet pilot. He's serving his nation. Tell me again how he's 'childish'? Tell me again how the way he plays a video game determines his character as a human being?

No, you know what tells me more about the character of a person than the way they play a video game? They way they judge people based on superficialities like how they play a video game. That makes you not just more childish, but also substantially more garbage than all the gankers put together. And demonstrably so, not just as a matter of opinion.

What a laugh you give me.

Look mate, I've fought for my country and the UN. I have my years and medals for peacekeeping and more. So don't think you can come here and call me 'garbage' and I'll think you're anything more than someone having a tantrum because others won't believe their drivel.

It is my opinion that killing innocent players on an expedition of exploration is nothing more than childish antics dressed up in some sociopathic reasoning as to appear as acceptable to the normal adult.

Such a lol, I know a Hornet pilot so blah blah blah. Am I supposed to fall in reverence on bended knee because you know a RAAF Hornet pilot? Lols. Sorry buddy, but that just cracks me. Where exactly is this Hero serving his Nation?

 

[Aashenfox]

A part of me see's where you are coming from, the whole 'overlord' ideal. But that only works if it's in some way related tot he BGS.

Following an expedition of Explorers on their journey with no aim but to kill them all is beyond my acceptance of 'normal' activity.

I think what irks me most is the whole notion of 'build your ship to withstand'.. That just does not make sense on an expedition like DW2. It's primary aim is to explore, there fore most ships are going to be exploration built with no room for extra niceties to protect from gankers.

I'm around years in this game, but I'm betting quite a few of the peeps on DW2 have no more engineering knowledge than Increased FSD and maybe, guardian FSD enhancements, with the rest being 'D' rated. Killing them is not 'lore' or doing air jobs for some overlord. It is plain seal clubbing at it's worst.

And I still cannot get my mind around someone/anyone, travelling 5,500 ly just to kill players for fun. The whole 'bubble burn' is just simply negated by not playing in Open, which is what I have advocated all along.

The gankers need meat, simply play in any PG or Solo and deny them. Simples.

For what it's worth, I have no issues with any of your views on this, except that building your ship to withstand, doesn't have to compromise as much as people believe...

This build... https://s.orbis.zone/1yhz - If you get ganked, you're dead.

This build... https://s.orbis.zone/1xxk - You get to give them the virtual bird before winking into the distance somewhere they cannot possibly follow...

The difference? 2ly out of 60.

edit: It suddenly occurs to me that both builds are using combat sensors. Change the sensors engineering for lightweight and you get a huge bump to 64ly total in the anti-gank build. Not bad.

 

[voidwalker]

What a laugh you give me.

Look mate, I've fought for my country and the UN. I have my years and medals for peacekeeping and more. So don't think you can come here and call me 'garbage' and I'll think you're anything more than someone having a tantrum because others won't believe their drivel.

It is my opinion that killing innocent players on an expedition of exploration is nothing more than childish antics dressed up in some sociopathic reasoning as to appear as acceptable to the normal adult.

Such a lol, I know a Hornet pilot so blah blah blah. Am I supposed to fall in reverence on bended knee because you know a RAAF Hornet pilot? Lols. Sorry buddy, but that just cracks me. Where exactly is this Hero serving his Nation?

You're missing the point. And I believe you're missing it intentionally. You're DEMONSTRATING your trashiness by judging people based on how they play a game. That's a demonstration of YOUR character, not their's.

But at least you've finally admitted that it is your opinion, so now we can stop pretending it's a point worth addressing.

As for tantrums, that's an astounding lack of self-awareness you have there.

 

[sollisb]

For what it's worth, I have no issues with any of your views on this, except that building your ship to withstand, doesn't have to compromise as much as people believe...

This build... https://s.orbis.zone/1yhz - If you get ganked, you're dead.

This build... https://s.orbis.zone/1xxk - You get to give them the virtual bird before winking into the distance somewhere they cannot possibly follow...

The difference? 2ly out of 60.

Ah yes, I'm aware it's possible.. But for example, your 2nd Phantom can have an extra 6-8ly jump range without all the A rated stuff and no engineering. That's huge when you're travelling 65000ly...

Gankers gonna gank. You can forgo jump range which is the main thing for exploration and play in open, or build your dream expo ship and play in PG or Solo.

To each their own.

 

[Aashenfox]

Ah yes, I'm aware it's possible.. But for example, your 2nd Phantom can have an extra 6-8ly jump range without all the A rated stuff and no engineering. That's huge when you're travelling 65000ly...

Gankers gonna gank. You can forgo jump range which is the main thing for exploration and play in open, or build your dream expo ship and play in PG or Solo.

To each their own.

I'll take that challenge. Show me your minmaxed, as long range as possible, no defense considered build, and I'll show you how much you need to compromise to survive a gank. We need to agree on victory conditions...If I get within 4ly, I win, k?

 

[[VR] Muskoka]

What a laugh you give me.

Look mate, I've fought for my country and the UN. I have my years and medals for peacekeeping and more. So don't think you can come here and call me 'garbage' and I'll think you're anything more than someone having a tantrum because others won't believe their drivel.

It is my opinion that killing innocent players on an expedition of exploration is nothing more than childish antics dressed up in some sociopathic reasoning as to appear as acceptable to the normal adult.

Such a lol, I know a Hornet pilot so blah blah blah. Am I supposed to fall in reverence on bended knee because you know a RAAF Hornet pilot? Lols. Sorry buddy, but that just cracks me. Where exactly is this Hero serving his Nation?

Nice retort, I liked it. Good points from both sides. Gankers have no place in a organized event, that's just wrong. Play in open if that's your thing, but don't feed the bunnies to the wolves, very poor on the organizers part.

 

[sollisb]

You're missing the point. And I believe you're missing it intentionally. You're DEMONSTRATING your trashiness by judging people based on how they play a game. That's a demonstration of YOUR character, not their's.

But at least you've finally admitted that it is your opinion, so now we can stop pretending it's a point worth addressing.

As for tantrums, that's an astounding lack of self-awareness you have there.

I notice you're great at the name-calling... Meanwhile your buddies are off fighting in real life. Was it too dangerous for you?

Probably best you stick to the seal clubbing you won't get hurt.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

With credits so easy to come by these days, who gives two figs about a rebuy?

This is an excellent point, my dear Auntie of Clan Agony!

 

[Aashenfox]

Nice retort, I liked it. Good points from both sides. Gankers have no place in a organized event, that's just wrong. Play in open if that's your thing, but don't feed the bunnies to the wolves, very poor on the organizers part.

They did try. I think you'll find that most of the explorers who went in open, either had NO idea of the risks (that's on them!) or knew full well and went anyway cos that's how they want to play the game,and you know what? They witnessed one of the big talking points of the game's history. I bet some are glad for that. This is a game where nothing much ever happens, at least something happened.

I have no doubt that a few explorers were sitting back watching the carnage going 'holy cow, this is just....what the....<boom>...EPIC!'

 

[voidwalker]

I notice you're great at the name-calling... Meanwhile your buddies are off fighting in real life. Was it too dangerous for you?

Probably best you stick to the seal clubbing you won't get hurt.

I'm an explorer. I explore in open. It's not dangerous at all, but then again, I learned how through experience, because I'm not a coward.

I also had an ADFA scholarship when I was 17. I was unable to become a fighter pilot myself due to blowing both collateral ligaments in both knees when I was 18. Can't really do much in the military if you can't walk. Not that I need to explain myself to you. That little shot you just took at me explains a lot about you, and it further demonstrates just how trash of a person you really are. I don't even believe that you've 'served' anything other than hamburgers to be honest. No one in the military whines about such mundane things as you do.

And you're pretty good at name-calling yourself, hypocrite. So don't even go there.

 

[[VR] Muskoka]

They did try. I think you'll find that most of the explorers who went in open, either had NO idea of the risks (that's on them!) or knew full well and went anyway cos that's how they want to play the game,and you know what? They witnessed one of the big talking points of the game's history. I bet some are glad for that. This is a game where nothing much ever happens, at least something happened.

I have no doubt that a few explorers were sitting back watching the carnage going 'holy cow, this is just....what the....<boom>...EPIC!'

They "shouldn't need to know", it simply should not have been done in the first place. Again, very poor choice by the organizers. If it hadn't been done, this converstaion/argument/ing match wouldn't exist. Like a lot of the other useless posts around here, this one is avoidable, and unnecessary.

No disrespect to the Op.

 

[Bortas]

This build... https://s.orbis.zone/1xxk - You get to give them the virtual bird before winking into the distance somewhere they cannot possibly follow...

You modded your sensors for long range... probably accidentally? Modified your build just a tiny little bit and got 62 LY, still totally ganker-proof
https://tinyurl.com/ya2qrubn

 

[Aashenfox]

They "shouldn't need to know", it simply should not have been done in the first place. Again, very poor choice by the organizers. If it hadn't been done, this converstaion/argument/ing match wouldn't exist. Like a lot of the other useless posts around here, this one is avoidable, and unnecessary.

No disrespect to the Op.

And there would be no event to talk about, nothing for the explorers to galvanise against, nothing for me to plot revenge about. The game would be poorer for it. This wuold be just another monday, I wouldn't be able to educate people about engineering, etc etc.

Never underestimate the galvanising power of evil acts. No light without dark, no good without evil and all that. Just say no to padded experiences.

 

[sollisb]

I'm an explorer. I explore in open. It's not dangerous at all, but then again, I learned how through experience, because I'm not a coward.

I also had an ADFA scholarship when I was 17. I was unable to become a fighter pilot myself due to blowing both collateral ligaments in both knees when I was 18. Can't really do much in the military if you can't walk. Not that I need to explain myself to you. That little shot you just took at me explains a lot about you, and it further demonstrates just how trash of a person you really are. I don't even believe that you've 'served' anything other than hamburgers to be honest. No one in the military whines about such mundane things as you do.

And you're pretty good at name-calling yourself, hypocrite. So don't even go there.

On a serious note, that's a tough roll of the dice. However that being said you've come across as nothing more than obnoxious to me, but that is a personal observation. You can call me trash names all you want, and I couldn't give a monkey's what you believe about me. I don't lie.

We have nothing further to discuss.

 

[Aashenfox]

You modded your sensors for long range... probably accidentally? Modified your build just a tiny little bit and got 62 LY, still totally ganker-proof
https://tinyurl.com/ya2qrubn

You missed the edit.

Good eye though, well spotted, this was modified from a combat build.

 

[NeilF]

For what it's worth, I have no issues with any of your views on this, except that building your ship to withstand, doesn't have to compromise as much as people believe...

This build... https://s.orbis.zone/1yhz - If you get ganked, you're dead.

This build... https://s.orbis.zone/1xxk - You get to give them the virtual bird before winking into the distance somewhere they cannot possibly follow...

The difference? 2ly out of 60.

edit: It suddenly occurs to me that both builds are using combat sensors. Change the sensors engineering for lightweight and you get a huge bump to 64ly total in the anti-gank build. Not bad.

It's a fair point, BUT:-
1) It's missing the core issue that you could be attacked and destroyed none-the-less. ie: It's excusing this pointless, toxic, I need to destroy hollow squares to cause grief. That should not be excused/ignored.
2) If we look at DW2, and take (1) into account, it just underlines what surely we do not want to excuse/ignore. These individuals get all the more grief when doing it to cause upset to a community/grief. The more pointless, and the more aggravation it causes the hollow squares? The better! That should not be excused/ignored.
3) Losing 5-7% of your jump range might not be important most of the time. But on a long term/long distance exploration trip? Just because of (1)? No thanks...
3) You didn't fit one or two heat sink launchers I like those for exploring...


I fully understand your point... But I find ganking 100% (with additional engineering on top and a guardian booster on top) unacceptable, especially when for most the galaxy, the game turns a complete blind eye to it.

 

[voidwalker]

On a serious note, that's a tough roll of the dice. However that being said you've come across as nothing more than obnoxious to me, but that is a personal observation. You can call me trash names all you want, and I couldn't give a monkey's what you believe about me. I don't lie.

We have nothing further to discuss.

We had plenty to discuss. Just because you're not interested in actual discussion doesn't mean there's nothing to discuss.

You're right, though, I have been obnoxious. I'm glad you noticed. I answer obnoxiousness with my own. I would answer respect with my own, but you demonstrated yourself incapable of that when you started judging people based on how they play a video game.

 

[Aashenfox]

It's a fair point, BUT:-
1) It's missing the core issue that you could be attacked and destroyed none-the-less. ie: It's excusing this pointless, toxic, I need to destroy hollow squares to cause grief. That should not be excused/ignored.
2) If we look at DW2, and take (1) into account, it just underlines what surely we do not want to excuse/ignore. These individuals get all the more grief when doing it to cause upset to a community/grief. The more pointless, and the more aggravation it causes the hollow squares? The better! That should not be excused/ignored.
3) Losing 5-7% of your jump range might not be important most of the time. But on a long term/long distance exploration trip? Just because of (1)? No thanks...
3) You didn't fit one or two heat sink launchers I like those for exploring...


I fully understand your point... But I find ganking 100% (with additional engineering on top and a guardian booster on top) unacceptable, especially when for most the galaxy, the game turns a complete blind eye to it.

Fair enough. I hope FD gives you something to help that doesn't take away too much from my epic good vs evil narrative. o7

And once again, we are really, honestly, trying to work on game methods to combat the griefing. It probably wont' come soon, but some fine minds are at work as we speak.

 

[[VR] Muskoka]

And there would be no event to talk about, nothing for the explorers to galvanise against, nothing for me to plot revenge about. The game would be poorer for it. This wuold be just another monday, I wouldn't be able to educate people about engineering, etc etc.

Never underestimate the galvanising power of evil acts. No light without dark, no good without evil and all that. Just say no to padded experiences.

I get it, both sides. The problem is, there's little to no "consequences" for the "evil acts" some folks choose to commit. Until that is properly addressed, this "game" is going no where as a viable multi-player option for the masses. If things were properly addressed, there'd be no need for private PVE servers, or solo mode at all.

C&P is a joke, and hence non combative types have zero interest in playing in open. Toughen the penalties, and attitudes might change.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I'm an explorer. I explore in open. It's not dangerous at all, but then again, I learned how through experience, because I'm not a coward.

I also had an ADFA scholarship when I was 17. I was unable to become a fighter pilot myself due to blowing both collateral ligaments in both knees when I was 18. Can't really do much in the military if you can't walk. Not that I need to explain myself to you. That little shot you just took at me explains a lot about you, and it further demonstrates just how trash of a person you really are. I don't even believe that you've 'served' anything other than hamburgers to be honest. No one in the military whines about such mundane things as you do.

And you're pretty good at name-calling yourself, hypocrite. So don't even go there.

A fine example in why people don't get along with each other.