Too much customisation?

[OriginalBadBoy]

The game has such a good UI though. I just don't get what's complicated about it.

The point being, its easy to say that for you and for me as well. But others may look at the interface and go 'what?'. To be fair, so far PC uses the bog standard 'sim' interface which has been around for a long time, so no problems there.

I don't want to get hung up on the interface as that will be OK. This is more to do with the complexities of building in general, whether that be buildings, coaster, paths etc. A casual or newcomer should be able to work these things out pretty quickly either via the fact that its simple enough to understand, and / or tutorials, scenarios to entice the player in to build stuff. But on top of that there needs to be enough pre-made stuff (by either Frontier or the community) so that a casual can just come in and start plonking stuff down.

I know Frontier know what they are doing (most of the time [big grin]), but as the OP states, if not kept in check the complexity could go too far.

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If pre order sales are anything to go by and it's a clear sign to say there doing something right, Very very right. But we can bash around the alpha stick all day long my friend.

As far as I am aware preorders are at around 100,000 which isnt bad. I assume you are not referencing the 2 million preorder no which was banded around a couple of weeks ago, that was incorrect.

I wouldn't start getting upset until it's in beta, Long way to go. Besides, There's a blueprint tab there anyway and we will most likely have a share aspect of the game. So you may be crap at building things but nothings stopping you downloading peoples lovely artwork and placing it in your park.

Nobody is getting upset, this was simply asking a genuine question for people to discuss. Anyone can build things with enough practice and understanding, but if you are in the middle of playing the game 'proper' as it were (i.e. simulation mode / scenario rather than just sandbox) you might not want to go to the trouble or have the time. Also again, this isn't just about creating buildings, its the game as a whole from a complexity point of view, which could imclude the UI, buildings, coasters and so on.

 

[techen]

The point being, its easy to say that for you and for me as well. But others may look at the interface and go 'what?'. To be fair, so far PC uses the bog standard 'sim' interface which has been around for a long time, so no problems there.

I don't want to get hung up on the interface as that will be OK. This is more to do with the complexities of building in general, whether that be buildings, coaster, paths etc. A casual or newcomer should be able to work these things out pretty quickly either via the fact that its simple enough to understand, and / or tutorials, scenarios to entice the player in to build stuff. But on top of that there needs to be enough pre-made stuff (by either Frontier or the community) so that a casual can just come in and start plonking stuff down.

I know Frontier know what they are doing (most of the time [big grin]), but as the OP states, if not kept in check the complexity could go too far.

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As far as I am aware preorders are at around 100,000 which isnt bad. I assume you are not referencing the 2 million preorder no which was banded around a couple of weeks ago, that was incorrect.



Nobody is getting upset, this was simply asking a genuine question for people to discuss. Anyone can build things with enough practice and understanding, but if you are in the middle of playing the game 'proper' as it were (i.e. simulation mode / scenario rather than just sandbox) you might not want to go to the trouble or have the time. Also again, this isn't just about creating buildings, its the game as a whole from a complexity point of view, which could imclude the UI, buildings, coasters and so on.

Overall, I don't get the big deal. It's still in alpha and anyone with a basic knowledge of early access games should know that alphas will be hard going. It's just the core of the game, There's no real "game" there until we hit beta. Should never knock it till it's atleast in beta when people have access to the premade buildings, stalls and premade coasters they plan to add anyway?

 

[simemo]

So basically some of you are saying you dont want to build anything in a building game.......

 

[dalemac89]

Casual players won't b playing the Alpha. Right now it is pretty much die hard fans of Frontier's previous coaster games.

If people want to just plop down random buildings and rides, with little thought for scenery and customisation, they can go and buy the 'other' game and do that, get bored within a few hours and move onto the next game. Planet Coaster shouldn't dumb itself down for people who aren't going to put serious time and effort into the game. I.ve played RCT3 for 10 years. I want to do the same with Planet Coaster.

Personally, I think we need more flexibility and customisation. There isn't anything difficult about the UI (This is usually the first complaint from people who don't know what they are talking about). The UI is a HUGE step up from RCT3.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

So basically some of you are saying you dont want to build anything in a building game.......

Well technically Frontier are taking the 'building' part to a 'building' game to the extreme in this case. Casuals or people that are in the middle of a simulation shouldn't need to spend hours creating a unique building. The fact that Frontier are even allowing people to go down to this level of customisation is incredible, and is already very well done even in alpha. That was the point though, this aspect can be taken too far.

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Casual players won't b playing the Alpha. Right now it is pretty much die hard fans of Frontier's previous coaster games.

If people want to just plop down random buildings and rides, with little thought for scenery and customisation, they can go and buy the 'other' game and do that, get bored within a few hours and move onto the next game. Planet Coaster shouldn't dumb itself down for people who aren't going to put serious time and effort into the game. I.ve played RCT3 for 10 years. I want to do the same with Planet Coaster.

Personally, I think we need more flexibility and customisation. There isn't anything difficult about the UI (This is usually the first complaint from people who don't know what they are talking about). The UI is a HUGE step up from RCT3.

See that's what I am talking about, elitist attitude right there, sorry but it is. You may want that from PC, but others may not, its not all about what you want from the game, appreciate that there others out there that might want a difference experience. Why should they be told to go elsewhere. Seriously I can't believe we are already seeing these sorts of responses on the forum already.

Ironically RCT3 is pretty approachable to a casual, so what you are saying contradicts itself. No one is asking for Frontier to 'dumb it down'. But it should be able to be enjoyed by all players, and there can still be ways of making it easier for the casuals and be complicated for hardcore players. I've been playing RCT3 on and off for 10 years as well, I in no way consider myself a hardcore fan of the genre.

Can you not see the danger of having that sort of attitude towards the development of the game? Its a very insular way of looking at things.

 

[dalemac89]

How is buulding any more complicated than it is in RCT3?

 

[Coasterfan312]

How is buulding any more complicated than it is in RCT3?

Local grids, objects that completely ignore the grid (wall extras, decorations), larger variety of wall types, e.t.c.

 

[dalemac89]

So you're allowed to have your opinion but I give mine and it's elitist. Okay then.

People don't need to spend hours building intricate buildings, or even coasters, if they don't want to. I don't see how having the ability to do so detracts from the experience of the game. Shops can be placed anywhere and are not required to be themed.

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Local grids, objects that completely ignore the grid (wall extras, decorations), larger variety of wall types, e.t.c.

I don't think any of those things necessarily make building more complicated, Sure, they are enhancements, but the core building system is basically the same as RCT3. You'd expect the developers to improve upon previous games, otherwise, what's the point in making a new game in the first place.

There are some annoyances of building in planet coaster that were also present in RCT3.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

So your allowed to have your opinion but I give mine and it's elitist. Okay then.

What?

Is this not an elitist thing to say then:

Planet Coaster shouldn't dumb itself down for people who aren't going to put serious time and effort into the game

Because that's pretty elitist in my book. Basically what you are saying is that people shouldn't play the game if they are not going to be serious about it. You know when I play Forza for example I don't take it seriously, like sit in the living room with a white helmet on and a real steering wheel (although I am pretty sure someone out there probably has done that at some point). So if people are not serious about the game they are playing they shouldn't bother? That's a pretty ridiculous statement to make right there.

This has got nothing to do with an opinion. You have a right to express your opinion on the discussion at hand. The above quote by yourself has got absolutely nothing to do with that. Its a quote that adds nothing to the discussion, I would almost consider it a trolling post, at the very least a drive-by statement that adds nothing to the discussion.

 

[dalemac89]

What?

Is this not an elitist thing to say then:



Because that's pretty elitist in my book. Basically what you are saying is that people shouldn't play the game if they are not going to be serious about it. You know when I play Forza for example I don't take it seriously, like sit in the living room with a white helmet on and a real steering wheel (although I am pretty sure someone out there probably has done that at some point). So if people are not serious about the game they are playing they shouldn't bother? That's a pretty ridiculous statement to make right there.

This has got nothing to do with an opinion. You have a right to express your opinion on the discussion at hand. The above quote by yourself has got absolutely nothing to do with that. Its a quote that adds nothing to the discussion, I would almost consider it a trolling post, at the very least a drive-by statement that adds nothing to the discussion.

If you think that's elitist you've read too much into it. Perhaps I could have worded it better, though.

What I'm saying is that it would be a shame for if PC had an identical building system to RCT3. Development of building customisation is a cornerstone of simulation games. Frontier shouldn't hold back on those developments for fear of upsetting the casual player. A casual player might only put 15 hours into the game, whereas a hardcore fan will put in many hundreds of hours. Sure, guides and tutorials are a good idea to help casual players, and will be provided, I'm sure. Just don't expect it in an alpha.

I've purchased games before with features that the majority of a community adore, but I've just not got into. I've always chosen to just not use those features. It's a part of being a gamer.

I'm ignoring everything else you said because it was, frankly, ridiculous. And off topic.

I'd much prefer to see you defend your comments on the building system, than complaining about the way you have interpreted my words, and name calling.

 

[Ahloween]

I just wanna add my 2cp.

I sincerely hope they make Planet Coaster as immersive as RCT3 is and even more so. All those extra options and attention to detail is what helps give a game longevity. Since this type of game is unique it has a history of enveloping fans for literally years and that's something very rare among game titles. I think if you are a casual gamer take from it what you will and move on to the next game but long time fans know just how much of a treasure this can be for decades to come. [heart]

 

[Casiquire]

I am more interested in the COASTER bit than in the building bit, and to be honest it's a bit disheartening for someone who doesn't care as much about the buildings to see guest thoughts like "The award for the most boring queue goes to..." I've brought this up before. I think it will likely be different once blueprints come out if they're available for stalls and coasters and if they satisfy the guests just fine, and then if we can build more as we wish, but until we get there I'll still call it "Planet Buildings" from time to time.

 

[simemo]

Well technically Frontier are taking the 'building' part to a 'building' game to the extreme in this case. Casuals or people that are in the middle of a simulation shouldn't need to spend hours creating a unique building. The fact that Frontier are even allowing people to go down to this level of customisation is incredible, and is already very well done even in alpha. That was the point though, this aspect can be taken too far..

Once the game is finished and released properly, there will be TONS of prebuilt items available certainly through places like the Steam workshop or similar as well as no doubt a selection of basic blueprints bundled with the game. This entire thread is a storm in a teacup, like has been correctly stated, this in still in ALPHA, the majority of players playing it right now are NOT casual players, for a start, we all laid out well over DOUBLE the final launch price to do so!

The finished product will have something for everyone, prebuilt content for those that just want to manage a park's operations and the brick by brick ground up building options we have now for those who want the challenge of an immersive model creation game.

There really is nothing to worry about here at all.

 

[cerealfruitcakes]

I am more interested in the COASTER bit than in the building bit, and to be honest it's a bit disheartening for someone who doesn't care as much about the buildings to see guest thoughts like "The award for the most boring queue goes to..." I've brought this up before. I think it will likely be different once blueprints come out if they're available for stalls and coasters and if they satisfy the guests just fine, and then if we can build more as we wish, but until we get there I'll still call it "Planet Buildings" from time to time.

We don't know the details yet on how peeps think. It could just be a small % of peeps that want theming or maybe it's something they can scale depending on the scenario demands.

I don't see those thoughts that much to think it's going to be something that will drag down your park's rating because some peeps think your queues are boring. I'd say just ignore them and make them stare at the cobblestone. [tongue]

 

[FuddyWoodie]

Good discussion this.

I can really see both sides of the coin here. On the one hand I absolutely love what you can create with the tools that we've been given, the detail you can put into your park is only limited by your imagination..

But therein lies my own personal problem....

Because I'm blighted by the fact I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to what I want to do within the game. I can spend hours and hours fine tuning bits of the park to suit my ideas. If that equates to one building being built over the course of a day then so be it. But I don't enjoy it. In fact, given the options with the scenery it can be a seemingly never ending process. Especially when you consider that those options are embedded within a slightly cumbersome, slightly finicky set of rules.

It is definitely off putting and slightly intimidating if I'm honest.

I don't think Frontier has to compromise on customisability but I do think that the tools could do with being a little more user friendly, especially when it comes to the building 'rules'. It shouldn't be so convoluted to make something other than a box so taxing. I'd prefer an option to throw together the walls a la The Sims 3/4 so I could concentrate on the good stuff (theming, rides).

To cut a long story short. Simplifying doesn't have to mean compromising.

 

[DreamMaster]

They already confirmed blueprint and stuff. Building is also easier then any game in the franchise with sticky object and auto stacking.

You people are like when sombody complain there's too much word in a book.[rolleyes]
Next thing people are going to ask for a park generator~

 

[FuddyWoodie]

They already confirmed blueprint and stuff. Building is also easier then any game in the franchise with sticky object and auto stacking.

You people are like when sombody complain there's too much word in a book.[rolleyes]
Next thing people are going to ask for a park generator~

Usual straw man ...

People who "complain there's too much word in a book" usually don't want to be reading said book in the first place. Students probably.

"Us people" are talking about improving something we, from what I can gather, enjoy very much. Why shouldn't we do that? I think it makes sense to point out that I THINK the tools in place could be better implemented rather than keeping quiet. This is something I've looked forward to for a long time as well.

As for using other folks blueprints, well of course that's a nice option, and I'm glad it's in there, but I much prefer to be able to build my own stuff, thanks.

To reiterate. This can be left as it is, and I, certainly, will persevere. But I think it WILL alienate a lot of potential customers unless it becomes easier, and less time consuming, to build with the tools as they are.

 

[Bergenia Tanoak]

Once the game is finished and released properly, there will be TONS of prebuilt items available certainly through places like the Steam workshop or similar as well as no doubt a selection of basic blueprints bundled with the game. This entire thread is a storm in a teacup, like has been correctly stated, this in still in ALPHA, the majority of players playing it right now are NOT casual players, for a start, we all laid out well over DOUBLE the final launch price to do so!

The finished product will have something for everyone, prebuilt content for those that just want to manage a park's operations and the brick by brick ground up building options we have now for those who want the challenge of an immersive model creation game.

There really is nothing to worry about here at all.

I think the blueprint downloading will be built right into the game. I'm guessing people will be able to select and build entire buildings and coasters that other fans have made and put them into their park. All within the game. I really think it'll happen.

That will make it easier for all the casual players that want to end up with a nice looking and functional park.

 

[Minnion]

This is actually my first coaster game... (Never played RCT anything, Thrillvile, though I have played other sim games like Sim City and Sim Safari...)

Anyways, I don't think that there is too much customization. (In fact it was the customization that drew me to the game...) and lets be honest, it's easy to save your park quickly plus there is this whole autosave too... (If you want to make it casual friendly just add an autosave on exit option to toggle on.)

So far while it might take hours to make an awesomely complex looking park, I think some of you arguing over this over look one very important thing: Interruptions don't detract from the act of customizing.(Seriously who said that those six hours couldn't be broken up into 15-20 minute increments over the course of a week? It's not like you can't stop and pick up where you left off on your big epic castle project...

TLDR; to make the game casual friendly it should be very easy to pick up where you left off... (And so far at least for me it is... At least as long as I don't accidentally delete what I was working on... To that end I suggest idiot proving the delete object button, not only with an "Are you sure" prompt, but moving it as far away as humanly possible from the "Close menu" button right above it... If the object isn't on the screen it can be very easy to delete something and not realize it until it's far too late to hit Ctrl Z...)

 

[The Judge1]

I have spent hours on a small section of my park. Was it always "fun" to build building after building? Not always. But I blame myself more then anything. I am the one choosing to spend that amount of time making sure its a perfect as it can be. Its not the tools fault or the game mechanics fault that I spent that time on one small area. I have learned how to duplicate pieces very quickly this go around.

On the other side of things my 11 year old son (Not an avid gamer) was able to sit down and build a small park. Did he build elaborate buildings and crazy smooth coasters? Nope, not at all.. in face the coasters he build would have killed the poor riders LOL. In the end though, he had fun playing, and that's what mattered to him.

Anything in life that you do can become a chore. A labor of love. Like working on cars? Well you may spend an entire weekend overhauling an engine and working on it to get it just right. Did you have an amazing time doing it? Perhaps not. But in the end, when you fire the engine back up and its running amazing. That's when the work pays off... 6 hours on one building seems insane to someone that don't want to do that. But for those of us that do spend that amount of time, the end result is what should be the focus.

I think more of this stems from some users perhaps wanting to build amazing buildings but don't want to invest the time to do so. I was raised on the premise that "you get out of something what you put into it"

For what's its worth, I think its good the way it is and would love to see more flexibility in the building editor and coaster editor. [yesnod]