FDev, please open direct interactive communication lines with us! Drag Munition situation proves this is needed.

Hole in Head

H
For the sake of this game, please open up direct interactive communication with your players. You've done some good work such as allowing us to help show case which bugs we feel is a priority via the issue tracker, thank you for that!

However, as evidenced by the situation around the changes to Drag Munitions, we clearly need to have open and direct lines of communication to some capacity to help avoid these kinds of situations. If we had open interactive 2-way communication between FDev designers / developers and the player community, we could have:
  • Immediately given feedback to why the change would not have been welcome
  • Understood better why this change was proposed, and perhaps suggested better alternatives to achieve said goals
  • Communicate our current grievances with the game to help FDev understand what the problems are, and suggestions on how to fix them that may have prevented the conception of a poorly received change in the first place
Many of us are frustrated, some have already left the game. Please open more interactive lines of communication so we can help this game realize it's truly great potential. Whether it's Reddit AMAs, discord discussions, anything is better than the current situation.

I realize we have the suggestion forum, but I don't believe these are adequate for the following reasons:
  • We don't know what's coming, we can only comment on the current state
  • There are thousands of posts, it's not focused
  • There's rarely if any communication back from FDev
 

Hole in Head

H
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead said:
I don't think the Devs have time to be chatting away on Reddit, the forums, discord, Twitter, etc.
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If you don't account for the time, sure. But it's an investment worth making to help improve the game. As someone who does development myself (not games), it's annoying to build something, only to have to tear it back out because there was a misunderstanding with the customer. If you don't communicate properly with your customer, you're going to end up wasting a lot of time and ending up with unsatisfied people.
 
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Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Although I'm a die hard 'give me that Powerplay update right now' guy, I also would like FD to have a beta where experiemental weapons effects are messed with and builds are sent out with changes suggested by the combat community. There are so many little tweaks that could be done, and working with the community it could be done quickly and effectively.
 

Vedmo

Vedmo
Hole in Head said:
If you don't account for the time, sure. But it's an investment worth making to help improve the game. As someone who does development myself (not games), it's annoying to build something, only to have to tear it back out because there was a misunderstanding with the customer. If you don't communicate properly with your customer, you're going to end up wasting a lot of time and ending up with unsatisfied people.
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This isn't a case of software being built to order. Sure, they are still making a product and the concerns of their target audience are important information, but I don't need to see a dedicated back and forth between vocal minorities and devs on game design.


They introduced something that caused outrage in PvP crowds, listened to feedback, and will revert the change. Sounds to me like communication lines worked.
 

Hole in Head

H
Vedmo said:
This isn't a case of software being built to order. Sure, they are still making a product and the concerns of their target audience are important information, but I don't need to see a dedicated back and forth between vocal minorities and devs on game design.


They introduced something that caused outrage in PvP crowds, listened to feedback, and will revert the change. Sounds to me like communication lines worked.
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I don't work on software made to order either, but rather an evolving enterprise platform. Back and forth communications with stakeholders is key to ensure we're working on the right things, and building them in ways that will help service the community.

I very much disagree that communication lines worked. If they did, this situation would not have arisen at all. As I said though, I am very much grateful that they picked up on the outcry that resulted and are reverting the changes, but this is hardly an optimal example of effective communication.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Vedmo said:
This isn't a case of software being built to order. Sure, they are still making a product and the concerns of their target audience are important information, but I don't need to see a dedicated back and forth between vocal minorities and devs on game design.


They introduced something that caused outrage in PvP crowds, listened to feedback, and will revert the change. Sounds to me like communication lines worked.
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The problem is thats dev time wasted that copuld have made a positive change on another weapon. FD could with some organisation have a weapons feedback forum to get ideas, people vote on the one they like the most and then add it to test. Most weapon problems are single variable fixes.
 

Vasco Sapien

Vasco Sapien
RELSPI said:
I just want to see a little mini-documentary about a day at the ED offices. It'd help humanise this whole affair so much, and help dispel the myth that FDev is some kind of monolithic entity that just churns out poorly-thought-out updates. It's just a bunch of people trying to make a fun game and sometimes making mistakes.
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I'd imagine David Braben to be Like David Brent. Guitar, bad jokes and feet on the desk.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Rubbernuke said:
The problem is thats dev time wasted that copuld have made a positive change on another weapon. FD could with some organisation have a weapons feedback forum to get ideas, people vote on the one they like the most and then add it to test. Most weapon problems are single variable fixes.
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Or they could have, oh I don't know, maybe followed through with the grandfathered modules issues like they said they would...?
 

Dillon Fallon

Dillon Fallon
RELSPI said:
I just want to see a little mini-documentary about a day at the ED offices. It'd help humanise this whole affair so much, and help dispel the myth that FDev is some kind of monolithic entity that just churns out poorly-thought-out updates. It's just a bunch of people trying to make a fun game and sometimes making mistakes.
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Unfortunately I'd predict us seeing this sort of thing:

Devs- So we can do the latest ideas, current timeline is 2 months for coding and basic feasibility testing as well as engaging with the community, then 1 month for balance passes and checks to see if we haven't broken any code with the changes. There's been some really exciting ideas, this is going to do great things for the game.

Management- That's not really working for us, what would a 6 week timeline look like?

Devs- Basically we'd have to run with the first idea of how to implement it, hope everything works and deal with any broken code after release.

Management- So it's doable? Great thinking guys, make it happen.

Community managers- Anyone have any more diazepam?
 

Vedmo

Vedmo
It's easy to apply criticisms to specific examples, but ultimately there are going to be hundreds, if not thousands of specific changes or additions in even a small patch.

Do they release a detailed outline of every single thing? How many people do they need to hire just to answer questions on all of these things, much less coordinate all feedback internally for those who make the decisions?

I want Frontier to make the game, and I do not think regular two way dialogue is necessary or even always healthy in game development.

I'm all for some broad focused feedback topics, beta for big patches, etc., don't get me wrong.

There's a happy medium somewhere on community involvement, not claiming I know where it is.
 

GJ51

GJ51
RELSPI said:
I just want to see a little mini-documentary about a day at the ED offices. It'd help humanise this whole affair so much, and help dispel the myth that FDev is some kind of monolithic entity that just churns out poorly-thought-out updates. It's just a bunch of people trying to make a fun game and sometimes making mistakes.
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Yeah, poor execution is just a feature...
 

Hole in Head

H
Vedmo said:
It's easy to apply criticisms to specific examples, but ultimately there are going to be hundreds, if not thousands of specific changes or additions in even a small patch.

Do they release a detailed outline of every single thing? How many people do they need to hire just to answer questions on all of these things, much less coordinate all feedback internally for those who make the decisions?

I want Frontier to make the game, and I do not think regular two way dialogue is necessary or even always healthy in game development.

I'm all for some broad focused feedback topics, beta for big patches, etc., don't get me wrong.

There's a happy medium somewhere on community involvement, not claiming I know where it is.
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Fair points raised. In my role, it would certainly not be realistic or worthwhile for me to outline everything to a customer. But I'm also not asking for this level of detail, and I'll wager that few are.

What I am asking for is a step up in some way to provide direct communication between FDev and players, because many signs over the years heavily suggest it's needed, with the situation around Drag Munitions simply being the most recent example.
 
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