Newcomer / Intro What is this 'Roll' nonsense with Engineers?

Wargfoot

Wargfoot
I keep reading about getting a lucky 'roll' with engineers.
The guides seem all over the place about this aspect - is this something that went away with 3.0?
I'm upgraded mods with that evil bat Farseer and there has been no 'roll' of which I'm aware.

I've been able to select the upgrade I want and pay way too much for it with no problems.
 

Wargfoot

Wargfoot
Para Handy said:
We used to have a "roulette wheel" on doing mods so you could get a god-roll where the maximum modification figure was achieved plus secondary effects that hugely enhanced your modification. PvP peeps used to roll so many times that we now have a shortage of arsenic in the galaxy. ;)
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So basically we've been given a lot finer control over what we get?
Is this also true for the experimental effects or are they still a roll as well?
 

Wargfoot

Wargfoot
Speedcuffs said:
?
'Evil Bat'
You're gonna get terrible rolls, blueprints unpinned, FSD failures...:unsure:
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I went in thinking I needed one wake scan thingy to get my first upgrade.
I looked up this stuff in advance on the webnets, you see.
I applied the material and it filled up the circle by about 30%.

I was taken back by that but I had 4 more so I figured I was in the clear.

The 2nd application filled up the circle by another 20%.
It was diminishing returns after that until I'd used up all my scans leaving less than 5% left to complete.

So yes, she's an old bat and that is the cleaned up version compared to the profanity I was howling in voice chat.

Next to the FSD upgrade pinned blueprint I've a blueprint for blowing up Farseer Inc.
 

aRJay

aRJay
Wargfoot said:
So basically we've been given a lot finer control over what we get?
Is this also true for the experimental effects or are they still a roll as well?
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While there is still some roll on the main blueprint in that how much improvement you get for each click can vary, experimentals are now a fixed price and you can pick which one you want.
 

Wargfoot

Wargfoot
aRJay said:
While there is still some roll on the main blueprint in that how much improvement you get for each click can vary, experimentals are now a fixed price and you can pick which one you want.
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So lets say you can improve something by 10% over all 5 tiers.
If you do all 5 tiers does everyone get the same 10% after applying all 5 tiers such that each tier grants a random amount toward that total?

So I might have 6% by tier 3 whereas someone else has 7% by tier 3 but by tier 5 we both have 10%.

OR, is it possible that we both do all 5 tiers and one ends up with 9% and the other with 10%?

Also, can you mix and match (or get all) effects or do you only pick one thing to upgrade to tier 5?
 

Jaggid Edje

Jaggid Edje
Wargfoot said:
So lets say you can improve something by 10% over all 5 tiers.
If you do all 5 tiers does everyone get the same 10% after applying all 5 tiers such that each tier grants a random amount toward that total?

So I might have 6% by tier 3 whereas someone else has 7% by tier 3 but by tier 5 we both have 10%.

OR, is it possible that we both do all 5 tiers and one ends up with 9% and the other with 10%?

Also, can you mix and match (or get all) effects or do you only pick one thing to upgrade to tier 5?
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You can only apply one effect to a given module (plus 1 experimental).
Tiers below the highest rank you take it to have NO affect on the end result, only the highest grade that you apply. Ergo, stop rolling a grade once the next grade up unlocks, it is a waste of material. You do have to start at grade 1 for each module and work it up though.
When gathering materials, general rule of thumb that is working for me is to plan to need the following number of rolls:
Grade 1: 1
Grade 2: 2
Grade 3: 3
Grade 4: 3 to 4
Grade 5: ~7 (varies more than the others though if you are looking for absolute max)

If the engineer is NOT yet at full reputation/rank (5), plan for needing double the number of Grade 1, 2 and 3 rolls for the first module you do there.

The effect of the engineering is the same for every player, assuming they take it to the maximum effect of the maximum allowed grade (i.e. there's no real variable other than where you choose to stop rolling the max grade if you do not max it out).
 

Para Handy

Para Handy
Wargfoot said:
So lets say you can improve something by 10% over all 5 tiers.
If you do all 5 tiers does everyone get the same 10% after applying all 5 tiers such that each tier grants a random amount toward that total?

So I might have 6% by tier 3 whereas someone else has 7% by tier 3 but by tier 5 we both have 10%.

OR, is it possible that we both do all 5 tiers and one ends up with 9% and the other with 10%?

Also, can you mix and match (or get all) effects or do you only pick one thing to upgrade to tier 5?
Click to expand...

No - everything is now a fixed value per grade of modification. The variance these days is just how many "rolls" or applications of materials it takes to move the progress band around the circle for the attribute being modified. The negative effects are fixed absolutely for each level of modification and experimental effects are a percentage effect on whatever the modules stats are.
 

Speedcuffs

Speedcuffs
Jaggid Edje said:
You can only apply one effect to a given module (plus 1 experimental).
Tiers below the highest rank you take it to have NO affect on the end result, only the highest grade that you apply. Ergo, stop rolling a grade once the next grade up unlocks, it is a waste of material. You do have to start at grade 1 for each module and work it up though.
When gathering materials, general rule of thumb that is working for me is to plan to need the following number of rolls:
Grade 1: 1
Grade 2: 2
Grade 3: 3
Grade 4: 3 to 4
Grade 5: ~7 (varies more than the others though if you are looking for absolute max)

If the engineer is NOT yet at full reputation/rank (5), plan for needing double the number of Grade 1, 2 and 3 rolls for the first module you do there.

The effect of the engineering is the same for every player, assuming they take it to the maximum effect of the maximum allowed grade (i.e. there's no real variable other than where you choose to stop rolling the max grade if you do not max it out).
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Yes, this.
Once you get an engineer levelled they are more efficient, but 4/5 can really eat materials if your completist OCD kicks in.
 

Kaocraft

Kaocraft
You still have "rolls" in the sense that each use of a material will move the progress bar forward by a randomized amount. But the progression is fixed and linear. In the old system, there were a whole bunch of separate stats which were randomized independently and could be positive or negative. So each engineering pass would give you a completely unique combination of stats, and as such there was such a thing as a "good" roll and a "bad" roll.
 

aRJay

aRJay
What they said.

If you change your mind and change blueprint everything done to the module will be lost and you start over, you can change experimental effects on a module but only the latest one will apply. You will of course not get any materials back if you do change things or remove the engineering on a module.
 

Wargfoot

Wargfoot
Thank you all, that helps immensely.
I had the second tier open up but kept putting materials into the first tier to complete the circle.
It is nice that I don't need to do that.... I hate Farseer a little less.
 

aRJay

aRJay
Wargfoot said:
Thank you all, that helps immensely.
I had the second tier open up but kept putting materials into the first tier to complete the circle.
It is nice that I don't need to do that.... I hate Farseer a little less.
Click to expand...

The only time to do that is when you don’t have the materials for the next tier and they are hard to find.

Don’t upset the engineers otherwise they won’t give you good rolls and might unpin your blueprints.
 

Kaocraft

Kaocraft
aRJay said:
The only time to do that is when you don’t have the materials for the next tier and they are hard to find.
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Worth noting that the negative stat changes usually go up with each grade also. If you have specific weight/heat/power tolerances it may in some situations be worthwhile to stay at a lower grade and max it out rather than step up.
 
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