Incoming enemy warnings only appearing after I've reached the station?

[peteuplink]

I don't get many incoming enemies as it's an ongoing issue I seem to have with the game that the NPC pirates don't ever seem to interdict me. Occasionally, though, I would get a lucrative mission that gave me an "incoming enemy" alert and some much needed respite from the tedium of trading... However, I'm suddenly getting more alerts, but they're all spawning after I've already reached the no-fire zone of whatever station I'm due to dock at.

I really can't understand why I seem to get no interaction with the NPC's, I have an 80mbps fibre optic connection, so I'm sure it can't be that. Unless ED doesn't like BT home hub routers?

I'd just like the NPC's to occasionally make things interesting without me having to go into res points to find them myself...

 

[Faded Glory]

I've had the same experience for ages now.

I can take many high ranking delivery missions and they all pan out to be milk runs, no pirates or incoming enemies to be seen. Why they wanted an Elite pilot is a mystery...

And then yes, on the odd occasion where you do get an incoming enemy alert, it happens as you are docking. Very occasionally they turn up at the right time and of course when they do it's always the same type and number of NPC's dependent on the rank of the mission.

IMO it's the biggest failing of the RNG nature of the game.

Edit: don't think it's to do with Internet connectivity. I have over 100Mbps cable connection, and I'm not on BT, not even in England.

 

[Stealthie]

Yeah, it's always been like that.

If you're quick, you can often get from A to B before you get the warning that there's hostiles looking for you.

Alternatively, if you want to engage them, you often have to hang around and wait for them to show up.

 

[Faded Glory]

Yeah, it's always been like that.

If you're quick, you can often get from A to B before you get the warning that there's hostiles looking for you.

Alternatively, if you want to engage them, you often have to hang around and wait for them to show up.

Or drop to normal space and then jump back to SC. That sometimes triggers an alert.

 

[S~P]

Nothing new, I usually get them when I'm on the pad!!

 

[Stealthie]

Or drop to normal space and then jump back to SC. That sometimes triggers an alert.

Oooh, yeah.

Can be quite fun if you're, say, hauling a bunch of passengers and you get multiple "I'm coming for you!" messages and then you get interdicted and a whole heap of baddies all show up at once.
If you're really lucky, they all start shooting at each other and then you can just explode whoever's left.

 

[Lightspeed]

If you listen carefully, you can sometimes hear them jumping out at the station as you are approaching the slot

 

[peteuplink]

So it's not just me, then.

So, here's a question. If FDev are worried about pulling in new players so much that they've felt the need to introduce a beginner zone, why don't they try enticing new players by adding some more excitement to the game? I mean, I know you can go looking for combat if you really try, but it would be nice if it occasionally found you.

 

[Speedcuffs]

Ha, just had this.
Two Corvettes jumped in and started attacking each other.
Just sat watching them use their SCBs.
Then the cops turned up to spoil the fun.

Oooh, yeah.

Can be quite fun if you're, say, hauling a bunch of passengers and you get multiple "I'm coming for you!" messages and then you get interdicted and a whole heap of baddies all show up at once.
If you're really lucky, they all start shooting at each other and then you can just explode whoever's left.

 

[Faded Glory]

So it's not just me, then.

So, here's a question. If FDev are worried about pulling in new players so much that they've felt the need to introduce a beginner zone, why don't they try enticing new players by adding some more excitement to the game? I mean, I know you can go looking for combat if you really try, but it would be nice if it occasionally found you.

I'm going to guess that the metrics that they collect tell them many players really don't want to be dragged into combat. Over the years this has got progressively worse, and combat is essentially entirely optional (with NPC's) unless you choose to engage in it.

I think a much better way to do it (at least for missions) would be to have missions that aren't specifically about combat explicitly state that they will be opposed (if they are going to be), not use RNG. That way players that want a quiet life can have it, and those that want a bit of combat can choose missions that will be opposed. Shocking thought, they could even have it that the opposed missions pay more...

 

[Tarman]

I'm going to guess that the metrics that they collect tell them many players really don't want to be dragged into combat. Over the years this has got progressively worse, and combat is essentially entirely optional (with NPC's) unless you choose to engage in it.

I think a much better way to do it (at least for missions) would be to have missions that aren't specifically about combat explicitly state that they will be opposed (if they are going to be), not use RNG. That way players that want a quiet life can have it, and those that want a bit of combat can choose missions that will be opposed. Shocking thought, they could even have it that the opposed missions pay more...

I think this idea would have more contextual sense to know beforehand there's going to be trouble; the current explanation would have to be an extremely vast amount of crooked mission giver personnel across the entire galaxy constantly selling routing data.

 

[Faded Glory]

I think this idea would have more contextual sense to know beforehand there's going to be trouble; the current explanation would have to be an extremely vast amount of crooked mission giver personnel across the entire galaxy constantly selling routing data.

Yes, IMO it would make much more sense than the random spawning, and as I said, why are factions asking for a high ranking pilot if nothing is going to happen.

The problem with random is that players cannot be prepared, and while some random excitement can be a good thing, in game terms it really only works if it can be engaged in, not simply avoided or escaped from. So if players want to trade peacefully in a non combat ship, let them take missions that they know won't be opposed and if players want excitement let them choose a mission that will require combat.

I am pretty sure we are at this point precisely because the combat that FD imposed onto players (remember the Elite Anaconda's if you had any engineering commodities, regardless of what ship you were in or your combat rank?) simply wasn't balanced and so wasn't fun (and removing the rank gating for missions didn't really help), and instead of using risk / reward to encourage players to engage, they seem to have dialled it way back.

I'm sure back in the day FD anticipated traders would wing up with combat players for escort, but why would players wing up to protect a trader if no combat materializes? The only way something like this would work would be if a mission was guaranteed to be opposed.

 

[ElectricFactory]

That's actually happened a lot to me. And not quietly either. Many times these guys jump out almost right on top of me, or right outside my cockpit canopy, loud. Sometime it's unnerving.

If you listen carefully, you can sometimes hear them jumping out at the station as you are approaching the slot

 

[Cmdr Nemo]

I've suffered with extremely late messages/memos since I started two years ago. I've always blamed it on my antiquated internet connection. My latency (Ping) is 150. Sorry, but I'm glad now that I've not the only one with this issue.

 

[ElectricFactory]

This makes sense to me- hard for them to implement ?

The problem with random is that players cannot be prepared, and while some random excitement can be a good thing, in game terms it really only works if it can be engaged in, not simply avoided or escaped from. So if players want to trade peacefully in a non combat ship, let them take missions that they know won't be opposed and if players want excitement let them choose a mission that will require combat.

 

[Faded Glory]

This makes sense to me- hard for them to implement ?

I don't know, but quite probably...

Like much of the game, it seems to me the mission system relies heavily on RNG. While initially this may have been seen as creating variety or even excitement, after a while it just creates frustration, and perhaps more importantly negates the need for any thought or planning in how you play the game, which ends up making it a more shallow experience.

So I'd guess that unless they completely rewrote the mission system from he ground up, it's probably not possible for them to implement. I've written a bunch of suggestions around this in the past, but I'm a realist, and don't expect anything to change in this regard at this stage of the game's development.

 

[peteuplink]

I'm going to guess that the metrics that they collect tell them many players really don't want to be dragged into combat. Over the years this has got progressively worse, and combat is essentially entirely optional (with NPC's) unless you choose to engage in it.

I think a much better way to do it (at least for missions) would be to have missions that aren't specifically about combat explicitly state that they will be opposed (if they are going to be), not use RNG. That way players that want a quiet life can have it, and those that want a bit of combat can choose missions that will be opposed. Shocking thought, they could even have it that the opposed missions pay more...

This game was great during the beta (I joined at premium beta) because it felt like I was playing the original Elite in a modern world. It had just the right amount of "wow! I'm in space" mixed with just enough NPC combat interaction to stop things getting boring... Then they released it and all we heard were complaints about how hard the AI were, so FDev nerfed it over and over and over again until now you can literally go for months without meeting a single NPC pirate.

The combat was as much a part of the game as the trading was in the original Elite, but this one is more like Microsoft Flight Simulator in space.

It's not that I don't like it, but I wish it'd surprise me a bit more often.

 

[Faded Glory]

This game was great during the beta (I joined at premium beta) because it felt like I was playing the original Elite in a modern world. It had just the right amount of "wow! I'm in space" mixed with just enough NPC combat interaction to stop things getting boring... Then they released it and all we heard were complaints about how hard the AI were, so FDev nerfed it over and over and over again until now you can literally go for months without meeting a single NPC pirate.

The combat was as much a part of the game as the trading was in the original Elite, but this one is more like Microsoft Flight Simulator in space.

It's not that I don't like it, but I wish it'd surprise me a bit more often.

Yes, NPC's were certainly more 'in your face' in the early days of the game.

I think though that FD had litle choice but to tone them down. It's not that NPC's are too hard, IMO they never have been, but certainly back in the early days half the time they didn't even shoot at you, it's simply that the attacks are too random, and players who just wanted to trade in peace probably quit in droves, so FD toned it down.

I played FE2, and while there were some random attacks by pirates, most attacks happened for a reason. You took that mission to deliver a parcel that had a big payout, the NPC giving the mission would tell you when you asked why it paid so much that other people were going to be 'interested in it', and of course, you got attacked. If you went to Riedquat, a famous anarchy system, you would get attacked. A lot! It made sense and you could predict what you were going to get yourself into.

But not in ED. Stuff might happen, it might not, you don't know until it happens. But if you did know that you were going to be attacked you could take an appropriately armed ship, or you could enlist the help of combat oriented players and IMO the game would instantly be much deeper and grounded in sense or if you wanted a quiet life you could skip that mission.

As I said above, with the reliance on RNG that's unlikely to happen in ED, and I can't help feeling it's a shame.

 

[MintyBiscuits]

I've never had this problem. I always get the message as soon as I lift off the pad from the originating station.

I always avoid the combat though.

 

[peteuplink]

Yes, NPC's were certainly more 'in your face' in the early days of the game.

I think though that FD had litle choice but to tone them down. It's not that NPC's are too hard, IMO they never have been, but certainly back in the early days half the time they didn't even shoot at you, it's simply that the attacks are too random, and players who just wanted to trade in peace probably quit in droves, so FD toned it down.

I played FE2, and while there were some random attacks by pirates, most attacks happened for a reason. You took that mission to deliver a parcel that had a big payout, the NPC giving the mission would tell you when you asked why it paid so much that other people were going to be 'interested in it', and of course, you got attacked. If you went to Riedquat, a famous anarchy system, you would get attacked. A lot! It made sense and you could predict what you were going to get yourself into.

But not in ED. Stuff might happen, it might not, you don't know until it happens. But if you did know that you were going to be attacked you could take an appropriately armed ship, or you could enlist the help of combat oriented players and IMO the game would instantly be much deeper and grounded in sense or if you wanted a quiet life you could skip that mission.

As I said above, with the reliance on RNG that's unlikely to happen in ED, and I can't help feeling it's a shame.

I don't buy this stuff about traders wanting to trade in peace and FDev nerfed the enemy interdictions because these players would leave in doves... Plenty of games have combat, in fact the vast majority of games do, and this doesn't stop games from being popular or cause people to run away. Personally I think anyone who came to Elite looking for a relaxing trading sim should have looked at the previous games, because that was never what the game was about. Elite was always a space combat/trading game and combat was often more important than trading. In fact in the early games it was the only way to become Elite. Sure there were "milk runs" in FE2 but stepping outside of these was bloody deadly! But FDev have turned the whole game into a milk run to satisfy some people who just want to cruise about without adversity. It's like playing Pac-Man without the ghosts. It's fun for a bit but it soon gets boring when you realise there's nothing happening. I predominantly play as a trader, but I can only play for an hour or two at a time due to the fact that trading just becomes a sereis of short trips back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, with nothing inbetween to break up the monotony. If I wanted to play something where I was just going from A to B dropping off cargo with very little else happening, I'd be playing European Truck Simulator.

I actually think the vast majority of gamers who turn away from this game do so because it can be a bit boring, not because it's too difficult to understand the basics. If FDev would sort out NPC pirates to make them more interesting (often they don't even show up in low security or anarchy systems) they'd find more people playing the game. it might also help alleviate some of the moaning about PvP because the players would be busy shooting the enemy rather than each other.