The game has become progressively less dangerous over the years. Certain types of people (sensitive ursas and a type of fathers) complain mightily on the forums and then Fdev caves creating the mess we have today.
Is ED not so dangerous anymore?
- Thread starter GeneralIdea1964
- Start date
What about those of us who would like to play Euro Truck Simulator in a believable cut-throat galaxy? One where running for your life and protecting your cargo actually require skill on your part? We can't, because any semblance of danger in the game is gated behind layer after layer of prompts asking the player if they really want to risk being challenged.
You're right that the game should be big enough to accomodate all tastes. We have security ratings for example, those would be the perfect organic separator between players wanting an easy-going experience and the rest... but of course even anarchies are just as safe for space truckers as high sec since it's impossible to lose an interdiction, and fitting your ship to survive against even Elite NPCs for the time it takes to highwake is trivial at best without even touching the Engineers.
What if you're not interested in assassination missions? What if you're not interested in Thargoids? Do we really have only two hopelessly consensual situations in the game where the player might be in danger of losing his ship, in this 400 billion stars galaxy? What happened to the idea that if you wanted to trade in lawless areas of space, you'd have to pick a Python or Anaconda because the Lakons just wouldn't cut it? Whinge, that's what happened to that idea.
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I have reached novice rank in combat, no engineering at all. I get shot down still by any npc competent or higher. This past several months of reading forums I've been wondering where this 'I win, make 1billion credits in a week and rank everything to elite in less than a month' button is. I watch streamers, read various sites and try to learn more to get a better understanding of the game but I've yet to accomplish these miracles people keep claiming in these forums.
I fly with a keyboard and mouse, I don't use voice attack to simplify things, I don't own hotas or other controllers, and while I have plenty of time to play I have in all my accumulated time never had elite rank, more than 300 million credits total or found things to be so easy.
Where is this easy game everyone else is playing? yes, once I understood the mechanics of landing, I am able to land properly, I can approach my destination without bypassing it. I can evade those pesky pirates and sometimes I can even defeat them in combat, as long as the pirate is harmless. I as a still relatively new player haven't forgotten how confusing and massive everything seemed when I started. I don't think new players find it as simple as the forum elite implies it is.
I fly with a keyboard and mouse, I don't use voice attack to simplify things, I don't own hotas or other controllers, and while I have plenty of time to play I have in all my accumulated time never had elite rank, more than 300 million credits total or found things to be so easy.
Where is this easy game everyone else is playing? yes, once I understood the mechanics of landing, I am able to land properly, I can approach my destination without bypassing it. I can evade those pesky pirates and sometimes I can even defeat them in combat, as long as the pirate is harmless. I as a still relatively new player haven't forgotten how confusing and massive everything seemed when I started. I don't think new players find it as simple as the forum elite implies it is.
I can't agree there...it all comes down to engineering. And it's not a bad thing. NPCs are stronger today than they have ever been (barring PA ammo bug for MCs), it's just that player strength has increased 1000% more. And THAT is partly due to the carebears and forumdads, but look, as an MMO, [noparse]E
[/noparse] NEEDs some form of 'enchanting', some kind of customisation to allow specialisation and generalisation. The trouble is they tried to cater to all by giving massive defense values, making fights take much longer, hypothetically to give explorers.traders more time to escape. But as usual they undersestimated the ingenuity of the playerbase and people found ways to keep others right there they want thm for long enough. Now we have 20 minute pvp fights for this reason and the carebears/forumdads STILL complain.You just can't win. FD needs to increase DPS dramatically or reduce defense dramatically, and accept that those who won't help themselves, cannot be helped.
Actually... there was this one time... lasted about 2 weeks.... that they implemented a killer AI logic, combined with highly engineered ships, they kicked butt, it was wonderful. Even seasoned pros went from swatting AI ships left and right, to worrying about the next interdiction. Sadly.... they reversed it due to feedback.
Personally, I wish they bought it back, it was a wonderful time (Both in game and on the forums lol)
Ah, happy days...
OP: Elite is a video game. It's never going to be 'Dangerous'. 'Challenge' and 'interesting' are worth discussing though.
The current problem is power creep. Engineering has made player ships OP, so the AI, instead of getting smarter, now has massive guns and acts as a bullet sponge. Not a particularly elegant or well thought out solution.
I loved the horrible AI MoM gave us. It had the same weapons as us, didn't move any faster than we did, but it flew a series of well thought out profiles that suited the individual ship. Difficulty was scaled to your rank and what you were flying.
It was amazing! Combat became boss level conflict, rather than farming kills from stupid as mud NPCs.
You can restore a similar level of challenge by flying vanilla ships, particularly smaller ones. The Vulture is good, because you'll need to juggle power settings without engineering, as well as struggling to keep up with opponents (it's kind of slow, stock). The trouble is it's not very interesting. You pink, pink, pink away at the monster NPCs shields and hull and the git just wakes out when the fight starts to go against him. A bit like standing up to most seal clubbers, really...
What I suggest is instead of launching a whine thread, try and get some support together for tougher AI. As long as it's dumbed down for non combat builds and newer players it should go down a treat with anyone who enjoys shooting at stuff. I'll back you, I'm sure plenty of others will, too.
I remember that certain PvP players demanded better shields to make large ship, large scale PvP battles possible - very long time ago.
This is also true, but the problem was never pandering to pvpers, far from it. It was pandering to those who don't want to learn to fight or engineer yet for some reason still wanted to fly in open. Notice none of the pvp folks are complaining much about the big buff small ships just received, we've been kinda asking for that too, although, again...I don't know if it was really all that wise to give my challenger even more armor, nor give vultures even more EH. Swings and roundabouts.
Swings and roundabouts. 
Nothing against the idea that there are dangerous parts of space for hauling. I agree anarchy systems should be more dangerous. I remember going into Reidiquat in the original.
But on the one hand you are talking about danger, and then talk about flying a Python or Anaconda to negate that danger.
Unfortunately the game fails to provide any reason to do that, right?
Isinona actively hold himself back by his playstyle.
What you describe is the game being difficult, because you still have to figure out various basic mechanics. If you have done that, what is left?
Even the docking computer wants to kill you, space is not safe.
There might be no end game in the classical meaning, but the game has to provide suitable content for all kind of ships and player skills up to a certain degree. But it does not, even against players. If you are in an unarmed Cutter with a modded 5A shield and G5DDs, you are very unlikely to die.End game.... such an out of place concept in this particular piece of software, there is no 'game' to end, no big boss level to culminate your progress through the ranks... The game has no end, not until the servers are switched off
No, it doesn't have to provide anything of the such, step back and look at the game that you load from day one. The game leaves the player to make decisions, it is up to the player to provide their own content, virtue of their own imagination, outside of the rather vague mission system.
What the game is, and what you may want it to be more often than not are diametrically opposed ideologies, it is not a 'classic' shoot-em-up with 'tiers' and end-level bosses, it is not a traditional RPG.... it is empty with story provided by the player.
Have you tried taking that cutter in an AX CZ? Choosing to 'die' may not be an option.
Your post seems like a weak excuse to not balance a game properly around the assets it uses. Games, especially classic computer games, which ED is strongly related to, are in general designed to become harder the more a player progresses. Thus those games maintain to provide a challenge for the player, because he is becoming more and more proficient while advancing through a game. ED provides more suitable ships unlocked by credits. So both the game and the player expands possibilities and means. Why would it now be any good for a game to become permanently easier after a certain amount of play time? I think it is a perfect recipe for a game to become boring quickly after said point has been reached by a player.
I know some players prefer to play some sort of interactive screen saver, which is about the same as someone wanting a simple mainstream action movie. But don't expect them to be seen as good products in their respective niche.
No, it is pragmatic.
The game gives nothing as plot, difficulty 'progresses' in NPC interaction as the player gains rank, but that is it. There is no guided storyline/progression as in the majority of other games, just the player making their own decisions.
I remember the CGA games on the PC, real classics, and have played many genres since the 80's, including the original elite, my reasoning is fairly simple with ED, it is a great game, but it really isn't one where the player is provided with challenging gameplay, progression does not include any scripted increasing difficulty beyond the 'challenge' of NPC's.
Possibly this is why those who come from scripted difficulty play find ED so lacking, it just doesn't provide content to be challenging as part of its remit.
I don't get your reference to an interactive screen saver, but that isn't surprising
The game gives nothing as plot, difficulty 'progresses' in NPC interaction as the player gains rank, but that is it. There is no guided storyline/progression as in the majority of other games, just the player making their own decisions.
I remember the CGA games on the PC, real classics, and have played many genres since the 80's, including the original elite, my reasoning is fairly simple with ED, it is a great game, but it really isn't one where the player is provided with challenging gameplay, progression does not include any scripted increasing difficulty beyond the 'challenge' of NPC's.
Possibly this is why those who come from scripted difficulty play find ED so lacking, it just doesn't provide content to be challenging as part of its remit.
I don't get your reference to an interactive screen saver, but that isn't surprising
Even the generated or scripted (as you mentioned) NPCs based on the players rank are a joke most times. I mean, when even a wing of PvP players couldn't kill me in my half-engineered FAS, how could any NPC pose a threat to my ship at that time?
But the issue doesn't have to be around tailored NPCs. Why not having regions of space with an actually noticeable change in thread level?
Due to me in some way?I don't get your reference to an interactive screen saver, but that isn't surprising
The first time I heard that phrase was in conjunction with Dungeon Siege 1, which was criticises to play almost by itself. The same is partially true for ED, when you read people doing other things while playing.
This has always been my thinking as well. High Sec should feel safe, Anarchies should be very dangerous, with the other states falling in between these two extremes. Rewards should scale with system state - delivering to an Low Sec system should pay more than delivering to a High Sec system, for example.
Oh, and systems being invaded by Thargoids should be absolutely terrifying, like Resident Evil or something.
My only PvE joy is having to deliberately stack the odds: fighting several pirate lords at once while carrying 'juicy' cargo other pirates want to nab; bulldozing wave after wave of security, not using shields.
Both the Guardians and Thargoids should make us wet ourselves in fear when they turn up. Right now you have to get a Thargoid to sign a permission slip to threaten you.
Both the Guardians and Thargoids should make us wet ourselves in fear when they turn up. Right now you have to get a Thargoid to sign a permission slip to threaten you.
No, the screensave reference wasn't a snipe at you B1rdy - but my not being a big 'social' person means that some references I read go straight over my head - I'm enjoying exchanging views with you but wouldn't stoop to veiled insults, not my way.
(or to put it another way, if I was going to insult you, it would be plain speak, not a snipe! I have no intention to insult one who has provided a fine exchange )
(or to put it another way, if I was going to insult you, it would be plain speak, not a snipe! I have no intention to insult one who has provided a fine exchange
)
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If I'm reading you correctly, then I agree. NPC challenge should not be based on the pilot's rank but rather a combination of the systems we are in and the missions we are running. Then again, isn't this what the game attempts to do? An Elite Pirate Assassination mission is going to generate much harder NPCs than a "Peddler" data courier mission. I'm hoping that when OP and others are complaining that the game is not dangerous, they are focusing on those Elite missions, CZs, AXCGs, etc, as the entire galaxy really should not be equally dangerous.