Credits to unlock engineers?

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Something that's come up on another thread (and completely off topic there) is the question of unlocking engineers using credits and bypassing the usual unlock requirements. Now, to be fair this assumes equal work in earning credits to working on unlock tasks. I personally have misgivings due to this potentially spreading to fed/imp rankings, guardian modules etc (void opal mining unlocking the whole game), as well as opening the possibility for real money being used to unlock things when complaints come in about credit grinds being boring.

However, I can't ignore the facts that some players may want to play a more moral character and stay away from The Dweller and Liz Ryder, which prevents access to a significant amount of engineers. Also most of the unlocks are repetitive in a lot of cases involve going backwards and forwards with rare goods. In real terms, it's also common enough to pay more for something to be done quicker (next day delivery services).

So based on this, do engineer unlocks need to be changed and is credits the way to go, or is there a better way?
 
@Deejayeff145 :
I was actually in the other thread as well. Didn't type much in that thread through. Well, here we go. The short answer to your question is: yes I would say engineer unlocks need to be changed, but they should not be bought out with credits. As to how they should be changed; I have no idea as I have only unlocked Farseer. The long answer is : I really don't have enough info to formulate a more well worded response.
 
yea i think you should be able to unlock engineers with credits, but the price tag should be in the billions or the high 100s of millions to be fair , because creddits are worthless
 
Playing as an independent Commander in the Pilots Federation, the Engineers meta progression gameplay makes no real sense at all contextually in the game, so I'd personally love it, regardless of how difficult it was otherwise. I don't particularly farm credits at all either and I'm sure I have much less than the majority of fellow long time playing players. I don't see it happening though as it could too easily be abused.
 
I have no idea as I have only unlocked Farseer.
Hmmm. Maybe unlock them all, then have a ore informed opinion? Having unlocked them all multiple times - they're fine.Interesting to try and work out the fastest ways to unlock them after a while.

And re: RPers not getting access to engineers - is also fine. I played one CMDR as a pacifist - so no unlocks requiring any shooting. Didn't have access to engineers that required that - but .... that's part of the RP.
 
RPing is one thing. Making things make sense contextually in the game as a development design choice and allowing players to progress within the game playing "their way" is another. I'm not saying using credits for unlocks is the answer, by the way. Some alternatives for different play styles and in-game allegiances would be appreciated though.
 
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I think engineers should all be unlocked untill G4 for free. Then G5 unlocked with their conditions. Conditions should be toned down and be achievable in a few game sessions, with more hints and audios and cutscenes on how to achieve the conditions and serve as an ingame advanced tutorial / single player campain.
 
@Factabulous :
Just to clarify(as you may of missed this): I said that I had no idea regarding how engineer unlocks should be changed, as a result of only having farseer unlocked. However, and I stress that I did not mention this in my original post: I have also been invited to a few other engineers and had a quick glance at the unlock requirements.
 
yea i think you should be able to unlock engineers with credits, but the price tag should be in the billions or the high 100s of millions to be fair , because creddits are worthless
Based on the number of elite trader in a week posts we had a while back I'd definitely agree it would have to be pretty sizable.
 
Engineers shouldn't ever be unlockable by mere credits unless players are able to bring a truly prodigious amount to the table (as in, quadrillions+ of credits), they help people out as favours to those they take a liking to and as a hobby as their skills are so in demand that even the superpowers can't afford to buy their services in great amounts. Remember that they are literally one in trillions in terms of knowledge and capability, they name their prices and credits have even less meaning to them than they do to us.
 
Hmmm. Maybe unlock them all, then have a ore informed opinion? Having unlocked them all multiple times - they're fine.Interesting to try and work out the fastest ways to unlock them after a while.

And re: RPers not getting access to engineers - is also fine. I played one CMDR as a pacifist - so no unlocks requiring any shooting. Didn't have access to engineers that required that - but .... that's part of the RP.

Having them unlocked already multiple time is precisely why your opinion isn't informed anymore.
 

DDastardly00

D
Engineers shouldn't ever be unlockable by mere credits unless players are able to bring a truly prodigious amount to the table (as in, quadrillions+ of credits), they help people out as favours to those they take a liking to and as a hobby as their skills are so in demand that even the superpowers can't afford to buy their services in great amounts. Remember that they are literally one in trillions in terms of knowledge and capability, they name their prices and credits have even less meaning to them than they do to us.

Even if it was Trillions, what you're not considering are Trainers and hacks that allow you access to billions of credits without playing the game. Stuff like this is what breaks a game for others who do things the legitimate way.
 
Thanks for this thread, @Deejayeff145 :)

Credits is one way to go, but I don't believe it's the way to go. As a quick fix, I think it would work but I do believe engineers should be reworked entirely. As in, a complete overhaul.

I'm going reference a very old post of mine, in which I talk about a possible solution to Engineers.

In summary, Engineers get pushed to the back in terms of modification. Every module now comes with a "slot" in which a piece of equipment can be bolted on.
These bolt-on pieces can be found throughout space from a loot drop to a vendor at a station selling particular bolt-on's.

Edit: I don't believe my suggestion is the way to go, but it's a suggestion I believe has merit as heading in the right direction. Opinions may differ to mine. :p

Full page:
As a caveat, I'd like to say that I did this primarily for fun as I was feeling creative but chose to bring it here to see what people thought of the idea. An added bonus if it, at any point, gives Frontier inspiration for something. :)

=====
A thread on the BETA forum questioned if we should throw out Engineer's. This got me thinking as to how I'd approach this, and came up with the following "alternative." Now in order to make this work, Engineer's as it stands would have to be scrapped; but I'll come back to that later. So, for the moment, let's say it has been.

Thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...n-forced-to-do-should-we-just-scrap-RNGineers

^( In hindsight, an interface similar to the outfitter may have been better than what I am demo'ing here, but I'm going with this anyway because I took the time to do it. :p )

Description
The Bolt-On feature works by "bolting on" physical changes to your ships systems. This functions both as an alternative for Engineers, as well as a handy lore-acceptable description to system modifications. Are Engineer's the only mechanics in the galaxy? I'm going with no.

Be it a weapon, your FSD, or your power plant, each module has it's own number of bolt-on slots with each slot serving a particular function or area of that module. Each bolt-on has a fixed positive and negative value assigned to it ( yay, no more RNG! ) however, each bolt-on affects other areas of the module; meaning you'd have to be careful and smart on what bolt-on's you apply if you don't want to overload or damage a module(s).
Going overboard on the modules, could result in a "cascading failure" rendering your ship completely inoperable. It would then be up to you to find out what's causing the issue, and change that bolt-on to something else.

Variants
Each Bolt-On item comes in variants up to Grade 5. You do not need to engineer them. However, you will need to raise you reputation with certain factions or Engineers to "unlock" them. They won't just give away their best product to anybody after all. ;)
By unlock I am not talking about some imaginary wall that stops you from doing things, I'm referring to things like blueprints, or buying. You might still be able to buy higher grade bolts from black markets, but you won't have the experience to install them successfully ( see below ).

Ways to obtain bolts
To obtain Bolts, you will need to buy, steal, recover or construct (if you have the blueprint) them. Bolts and Bolt materials can be purchased from around colonised space, with rarer types only from specialised stations, or through mining (asteroids and planets). You can steal what you need through piracy, base invasions, salvage or you might get a bolt, bolt material(s) or a blueprint as a mission reward. Bolt blueprints teach you how to make that Bolt. Buying a Bolt and reverse engineering it might teach you how to make it, or might not and you end up with spare Bolt parts, or both, or neither ( you break it ).


Let's do a visual demonstration.
To begin with, you would select the "Bolt-On" option available either in the Outfitter at a station, or in a new section called the Engineering Bay which is part of your ship ( this area will have the Bolt-On feature, as well as the crafting and modifications section for crafting or modifying Bolts ).

Once there, you are greeted with the following screen:
3IsP2v7.png

Each module can be selected by moving your mouse-cursor over one of the marked points on the ship.^
An interactive contextually-relevant menu then appears if you select it:
6mn99WF.png

Each of the slots surrounding the image of the module is an open Bolt-On slot.
In this particular case, as you can see, I have chosen a Pulse Laser for my demonstration.
Each area serves a different function, here we have:
  1. Clip
  2. Coolant
  3. Muzzle
  4. Ammo Type
  5. Chamber
Clip might adjust clip size, clip weight etc.
Coolant controls heat.
Muzzle determines length of shot etc.
Ammo Type let's you select different types of ammunition.*
Chamber controls your rate of fire.

* Ammo Type would let you equip things like corrosive ammunition. Each ammunition type would have different cost amounts. The rarer Ammo will cost a lot more to rearm than the common stuff.

Selecting a Bolt-On slot, will give you a list of Bolt-On's you can select from. This list is contextual, changing for each module.
Bolt-On's have a quantity value assigned to them. Meaning if you have 1, you can only slot 1.
Each Bolt-On is available in 5 grades. Each grade is more rare, more powerful and more expensive than the other; but, that doesn't mean a grade 5 is the best.
4McaOrB.png
As visible here, you can select one of the listed Bolt-On's. A title and description tell you what it is; with visible positive and negative values.
Selecting a Bolt-On will display further information about it, such as where you can find them, their average sale price, and what impact it will have on the rest of the module. Your selection of "Heat Dissipation" for example, could have negative consequences on say, your rate of fire.

Selecting the Bolt-On will take up the Bolt-On slot.
And display it's positive and negative values.
oUehaWE.png

Because of how bolting works, one could implement an experience system. The more bolt's you construct, or use the more experience you get. Increasing your experience in certain areas or with certain bolts could allow you to "unlock" higher grade bolts ( you could still use higher grade bolts even if you're not qualified, but you might not be as successful ).


Now, to Engineer's.
Engineer's at this point seem a little pointless, however, my thoughts around this are quite simple. They can directly modify any module they are qualified to engineer, a number of sliders allow you to modify various aspects of the module. However, moving one slider tick up, could lower the slider tick of another value.
Once you have made your selection, and provided the materials, the change is made directly to the module, the bolt-on's are not included; however, I would recommend de-bolting first, then modifying, then bolting on as modifying the module could have disastrous consequences ( such as the aforementioned cascading failure).

Er, yeah, that's all. :D

Thoughts? :)
 
For what ? Nowadays it's so simple to unlock most of them, you just need to play the game with a little focus on what is needed to unlock them.
And about combat related engineers… well, if you don't like combat that much you (usually) don't need their engineering then… ;-)

Imho the same is valid for ranking up with the two superpowers, all those Rep++ (and higher) missions nowadays...

Oh... I'm testing this on my (nearly forgotten) 3rd account right now

So no money to unlock engineers are my 2 cents to that...
 
Even if it was Trillions, what you're not considering are Trainers and hacks that allow you access to billions of credits without playing the game.

Cheats will always be a problem, if they have access to those kinds of variables then they can just as easily cheat the required cargo into their inventory. Even then, as Elite's saves and economy are all stored server-side it is pretty difficult to reliably get those kinds of cheats, and in the event that they are discovered it is a simple matter than of either reversing all the cheated content (logs are a thing when it comes to online transactions) or even simply just permabanning those that actively abused the software glitch to get in-game rewards.
 
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