The Star Citizen Thread V10

Mole HD · May 19, 2019

McGlashan said:
You don't get to stay in a senior position at CIG unless you're skilled at massaging Roberts' ego.

And yet any time I watch a stream of someone playing alone rather than with a coordinated group of mates they spend most of their time aimlessly running around dead locations populated with zombie NPCs, and rarely encounter anyone else. A full server doesn't really mean much, even in SC's micro-verse, when the game can handle so few players to start with. I'm sure when the diffusion server meshing comes online and they have hundreds of thousands of players in the same instance it will be a different story, not that that will ever happen.

SC is similar to E-D in that respect...players congregate around choke points/mission targets for PvP opportunities. At my particular home spawn point of Levski, there's always folks running about delivering boxes and collecting missions. It's very rare I see it empty...but that doesn't mean it's crawling with players either

Half a dozen or so players by the time it takes me to collect a ship/mission and scoot outta there is around average.

Judging purely by the chat, most folks hang around ArcCorps or Lorville either sight seeing or collecting missions for the drugs lab...which is fine by me. If they're down there, they're not shooting up my flying target of a prospector when I'm trying to do some mining in peace.

Zyll Goliat · May 19, 2019

Agony_Aunt said:
It all seems a bit strange to me, but i probably don't understand sofware development or something.

My guess is they are actually keeping everything loaded all the time regardless of whether it is in use and due to lack of server meshing they can't parcel the load out.

So.... if it is a matter of waiting for server meshing, and if the thing has hit a limit, then Microtech is going to have to wait until then.

It does tie in with the comment from the other week from a dev where he was talking about hiding server boundaries in the QT spaces, which will literally make QT a loading screen at certain points.

When i tried to discuss this with a backer.... well, i think you can imagine how that went down. It bloody well makes sense as well. Some of them have such a hard on for Chris' vision of one instance across the whole galaxy they don't want to hear about senisble technical decision to make things actually work. I tried to point out it wasn't a criticism but just reality, but they didn't want to hear it. I mean, why does anyone actually need to be in the same instance as someone else who is thousands or millions of km distance from them?

This is one of the major challenges the devs must be facing. Trying to make things work like CR has declared they must be vs the reality of .... well, reality.

I remember saying things back in 2014 that CIG is going to have serious trouble making Crytek netcode to work with 30-50 players per instance and IF they menage to do that it will be such a colossal job and almost impossible for just few years of expected ETA(back then) period......I was burned at stake alive by SC White knights with almost their identical response that I do not understand game development and that is just a matter of months even weeks before CIG "master-minds"figure how to get more than hundreds of players per instance...We didn't yet reach those numbers of players per instance to work flawlessly(maybe we never will)but Croberts rise up once again public expectation with "magical"server meshing.......Not that I am saying that it's impossible task but that tech is not arrived yet fully and could be decade far away....

Asp Explorer · May 20, 2019

Zyll Goliat said:
Not that I am saying that it's impossible task but that tech is not arrived yet fully and could be decade far away....

Well Zyll, if their current excuse is RAM limits, what's it going to be in the next decade? Thread count? IOPS? Bandwidth?

Technology is only getting better, and bigger, and MOAR of it - and CI-G are only getting further and further away from releasing two projects they had promised to deliver in 2014.

Any muppet can stuff a box full of RAM and call it a job done. Threads, IPT and cores are blooming. SSD's now have more IOPS than you can shake a IOPS stick at, and bandwidth is gradually increasing globally, and we are finally seeing 2+ gigabit at the desktop level.

And Star Citizen remains a vague handwaved dream.

StuartGT · May 20, 2019

Mole HD said:
They had 40,000 (claimed) folks trying out the free-fly/expo in October/November last year. That's where that figure comes from. Since that expo, numbers have plummeted...mostly because the majority of them didn't buy into SC and just sampled the free-fly event.. Similar to the latest free fly, the majority took the opportunity to try for free but sensibly didn't fork out and buy in...so now we're left with the remaining longer term backers + a few newbies after that last free-fly week. It's certainly nowhere near 40,000...perhaps drop a few zeros and it'd be more accurate.

40?

Mole HD · May 20, 2019

StuartGT said:
40?

Only on the servers I play on...maybe add a zero across them all

(just uneducated guesswork, no actual figures)The servers on the EU side haven't been full since the free-fly a couple of weeks ago...Probably better populated on the US servers I guess, but I don't go over there too often...I might get stuck on one with that shouty-dinosaur chap

Agony_Aunt · May 20, 2019

Zyll Goliat said:
I remember saying things back in 2014

Ah, but did you write a July Blog about it?

Agony_Aunt · May 20, 2019

chuchu_starship said:
The best part of the stream is where they talk about how Roberts is an "amazing programmer" and they imply that he is actively working on the codebase.

Credit: u/Nauxill

There is no way Roberts is actively coding anything. As they progress through their careers, senior programmers tend to move on to management, tech review or team lead type roles. I would imagine that very few people actively code past the age of 40 (in an enterprise context).

This is just ridiculous. I also wonder what exactly they mean by "a nice little stream." Sounds like ** to me.

I'd be horrified if the CEO of a 500 person company is writing any code as well. He should be managing not coding. He should have no time at all to write code.

Still, its a question, where can CR do less damage, with his knowledge of coding that is probably decades out of date or his knowledge of management which is centuries out of date...

Skizomeuh · May 20, 2019

Star Citizen : designed like an exquisite cadaver.

Snarfbuckle · May 20, 2019

Agony_Aunt said:
You see, i just don't get this. Sitting in a turret while someone else does the flying. Its why when i have done MC in ED i only take a fighter, i won't take a turret.

I could see that part apply to the ARMA crowd and if you have good friends with good communications.

In dedicated ARMA groups you had your roles basically so you had your driver, gunner and loader and stuff which could mean looking through a vision slit for HOURS before anything really happened.

That said, when finally happened everything happened at once.

[VR] Merkir · May 20, 2019

Skizomeuh said:
Star Citizen : designed like an exquisite cadaver.

Wasn't that an episode of Reverse the Hearse?

VR Golgot · May 20, 2019

Merkir said:
Wasn't that an episode of Reverse the Hearse?

Nah, think it was Ten for the Headsman

cheesenbiscuits · May 20, 2019

So the reason why the PU is so empty isn’t because of incompetence,it’s because of incompetence.
I guess the plan was just keep tinkering as the faithful have always said take your time.
Is their a likely solution? Or has CR painted himself into a corner?
Currently they have a space game with no flight model and an engine that is creaking at the seems with a laughable amount of assets.

Sanya V. Juutilainen · May 20, 2019

lysan said:
Well, try sit in the belly of a JU-88 where the pilot is trying to escape and the gunner tries to hit the enemy, it's actually fun, but then again one is a simulator the other is just a sci-fi game where the mechanics is reduced to arcade mechanics.

As was said, it's very different in 6DoF, where it can get confusing very, very fast. Movies tend to make it way cooler for a reason, and in my opinion one of the better showcases of this is Luke in SWIV - trying to hit stuff for extended time to finally hit one target - and they didn't even have shields.

Mole HD said:
SC is similar to E-D in that respect...players congregate around choke points/mission targets for PvP opportunities. At my particular home spawn point of Levski, there's always folks running about delivering boxes and collecting missions. It's very rare I see it empty...but that doesn't mean it's crawling with players either Half a dozen or so players by the time it takes me to collect a ship/mission and scoot outta there is around average.
(snip)

But Elite also has lots more of such places. Basically if you visit any power HQs, any CG target, Maia, current evacuation spot, Jaques, etc, etc, you are almost guaranteed to meet few players at every such spot.

VR Golgot · May 20, 2019

A hypothetical for the backers in the thread:

TheAgent's backroom gossip is looking good regarding subscription rewards ramping up. How would you feel if some of his other recent gossip ended up being true? IE:

SQ42 launching on consoles
Star Citizen being pushed towards a release state in a similar timeframe. (He doesn't state dates, that's my interpretation of this)
Star Citizen being launched on consoles (tech willing)

Would any of that bother you? Would the pros outweigh the cons?

Recent Agent stuff here: [1],[2],[3]

Skizomeuh · May 20, 2019

Well, these 3 sound much more like money desperated wishful thinking than anything else. So even if true, are CIG able to make console versions with their frankengine, half-baked tech and barely thought out design? And moreover: can they pass SONY or MS certifications?

Mole HD · May 20, 2019

Sanya V. Juutilainen said:
As was said, it's very different in 6DoF, where it can get confusing very, very fast. Movies tend to make it way cooler for a reason, and in my opinion one of the better showcases of this is Luke in SWIV - trying to hit stuff for extended time to finally hit one target - and they didn't even have shields.

But Elite also has lots more of such places. Basically if you visit any power HQs, any CG target, Maia, current evacuation spot, Jaques, etc, etc, you are almost guaranteed to meet few players at every such spot.

That's because it's a lot bigger...but comparing sizes wasn't my point. I have 5,500 hours in E-D on 2 platforms, I still play. Let's not get into a peeing contest about which has more of what or who likes whatever more. There's quite enough of that already

Mole HD · May 20, 2019

Skizomeuh said:
Well, these 3 sound much more like money desperated wishful thinking than anything else. So even if true, are CIG able to make console versions with their frankengine, half-baked tech and barely thought out design? And moreover: can they pass SONY or MS certifications?

I reckon our Chrissie boy is hoping Microsoft won't remember him spending their Freelancer funding making a crap movie

But be honest here...can anyone see Microsoft or Sony allowing the Chris Roberts name, all the controversy, all the notoriety of Star Citizen, it's now public mismanagement and Hollywood accounting sullying their brands and reputations by opening the doors to the snake-oil salesman and his pet project?

...Me neither.

Golgot said:
A hypothetical for the backers in the thread:

TheAgent's backroom gossip is looking good regarding subscription rewards ramping up. How would you feel if some of his other recent gossip ended up being true? IE:

SQ42 launching on consoles

Star Citizen being pushed towards a release state in a similar timeframe. (He doesn't state dates, that's my interpretation of this)

Star Citizen being launched on consoles (tech willing)

Would any of that bother you? Would the pros outweigh the cons?

Recent Agent stuff here: [1],[2],[3]

Ci¬G need the capital...I'd say they were desperately reliant on it. All they have without any possible (but doubtful) next gen console ports is a big and deepening hole of technical debt to us backers. The PC market might optimistically produce a few more thousand sales of Sqn42 at best. If they are also planning on releasing the PU to the console market (also unlikely due to MS/Sony certification and gated Xbox live/PSN network requirements)...it would have to be a lot more than what's on offer or what they can turn out by 2021...and that's almost as wishful as hoping the Dragon Lady could have survived Game of Thrones to make lots of little Jon Snows.

Ci¬G are clutching at straws that aren't even there.

Agony_Aunt · May 20, 2019

Mole HD said:
That's because it's a lot bigger...but comparing sizes wasn't my point. I have 5,500 hours in E-D on 2 platforms, I still play. Let's not get into a peeing contest about which has more of what or who likes whatever more. There's quite enough of that already

But but.... ED bad, so SC good!

Snarfbuckle · May 20, 2019

Agony_Aunt said:
But but.... ED bad, so SC good!

I hate that trope.

I love Elite, but the universe itself feels so damn, well, emty of gameplay that is ENGAGING while looking absolutely gorgeous while SC might have POTENTIAL if they ever get it released.

Just playing against bots in the Arena Commander is waaay more exciting and fun since all the combat in Elite is so damn slow and the weapons are far more fun to use.

One is released but is having problems with engaging gameplay and the other have yet to see an actual real release date and one has had issues since release and the other will have issues if it does NOT release.

cheesenbiscuits · May 20, 2019

Snarfbuckle said:
I hate that trope.

I love Elite, but the universe itself feels so damn, well, emty of gameplay that is ENGAGING while looking absolutely gorgeous while SC might have POTENTIAL if they ever get it released.

Just playing against bots in the Arena Commander is waaay more exciting and fun since all the combat in Elite is so damn slow and the weapons are far more fun to use.

One is released but is having problems with engaging gameplay and the other have yet to see an actual real release date and one has had issues since release and the other will have issues if it does NOT release.

ED is critiqued on the game design and playability,SC is critiqued on something that CR thought of.
It’s a fantasy that you can play the role of space janitor or command your own armada of megaships.
Strangely the road to this game to end all games includes 8 years of not being able to walk through door.