General / Off-Topic Let's Have A Debate: To Be, Or Not To Be Vegan? That Is The Question ...

[Jenner]

I'm not a vegan, but I am a vegetarian. I don't eat meat because I find it morally objectionable to have animals suffer needlessly, especially given modern factory farming methods. In addition raising animals for consumption is inefficient from a pure energy standpoint and contributes to global warning.

Using the same logic I could avoid eggs and cheese, too, of course and go full vegan. So far I have not done that, although I probably should. I do only buy cage-free eggs and such, but dairy cows are not treated well either usually so all the cheese I eat makes me something of a hypocrite.

SO yeah... My vote is veggetarian/vegan.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

But are we still hunters or gatherers?

Well I have certainly eaten stuff I hunted and/or gathered.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Well I have certainly eaten stuff I hunted and/or gathered.

I said "we", and eating stuff you hunted/gathered doesn't make you a hunter/gatherer, the vast majority of food you eat is still cultivated or grown.

 

[jasonbarron]

But are we still hunters or gatherers?

If there was a disruption in the supply chain you would be.

Veganism, like many other affectations of a modern, affluent society, is simply a luxury that can be afforded because we've become so fabulously wealthy that we have little else to concern us when it comes to the question of our survival.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

I said "we", and eating stuff you hunted/gathered doesn't make you a hunter/gatherer, the vast majority of food you eat is still cultivated or grown.

Well 'we' could be if circumstances made it necessary, and there are plenty of communities across the world that are.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

If there was a disruption in the supply chain you would be.

I'm sure becoming a self-sustained farmer would make more sense, you know, like we did 10,000 years ago when the words "supply chain" literally didn't exist.

Veganism, like many other affectations of a modern, affluent society, is simply a luxury that can be afforded because we've become so fabulously wealthy that we have little else to concern us when it comes to the question of our survival.

If you truly are concerned on our survival, you'd realize that eating meat ATM is not the way to go, worrying about something that will very likely not happen in your lifetime is a waste of time.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

If there was a disruption in the supply chain you would be.

Veganism, like many other affectations of a modern, affluent society, is simply a luxury that can be afforded because we've become so fabulously wealthy that we have little else to concern us when it comes to the question of our survival.

So true, it's an utterly contrived position.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Well 'we' could be if circumstances made it necessary, and there are plenty of communities across the world that are.

The fact that you are speaking to me here is a testament that you aren't part of those communities, and I'm sure most of those communities aren't still hunter/gatherers.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I'm sure becoming a self-sustained farmer would make more sense, you know, like we did 10,000 years ago when the words "supply chain" literally didn't exist.



If you truly are concerned on our survival, you'd realize that eating meat ATM is not the way to go, worrying about something that will very likely not happen in your lifetime is a waste of time.

Don't be silly, the population problem is not going to be solved by people giving up meat.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I'm not a vegan, but I am a vegetarian. I don't eat meat because I find it morally objectionable to have animals suffer needlessly, especially given modern factory farming methods. In addition raising animals for consumption is inefficient from a pure energy standpoint and contributes to global warning.

Using the same logic I could avoid eggs and cheese, too, of course and go full vegan. So far I have not done that, although I probably should. I do only buy cage-free eggs and such, but dairy cows are not treated well either usually so all the cheese I eat makes me something of a hypocrite.

SO yeah... My vote is veggetarian/vegan.

Ordering the vegetarian meal? There’s more animal blood on your hands

The ethics of eating red meat have been grilled recently by critics who question its consequences for environmental health and animal welfare. But if you want to minimise animal suffering and promote more sustainable agriculture, adopting a vegetarian diet might be the worst possible thing you could do.

Ordering the vegetarian meal? There’s more animal blood on your hands

This article was published in 2011. A follow-up article refuted its claims. The ethics of eating red meat have been grilled recently by critics who question its consequences for environmental health and…

theconversation.com

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Don't be silly, the population problem is not going to be solved by people giving up meat.

Neither is it gonna be fixed by consuming even more resources.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Neither is it gonna be fixed by consuming even more resources.

That case is not as clear as you'd like it to be either.
More people consume more resources.
That part is simple.

 

[Patrick_68000]

I like to eat fish.

Cod mainly. The lobster or tuna is too expensive for me.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

The fact that you are speaking to me here is a testament that you aren't part of those communities, and I'm sure most of those communities aren't still hunter/gatherers.

Nethertherless I hold that if required the majority would make the transition within 2 weeks.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

That case is not as clear as you'd like it to be either.

The article you linked talks only about Australia which has ideal conditions to feed cattle on pasture not to mention they didn't compare the effects of other farm animals such as chickens or pigs, at last, they did the comparison to wheat on protein, wheat is not known to have much protein in the first place so the comparison is disingenuous.

"Some of this grain is used to “finish” beef cattle in feed lots (some is food for dairy cattle, pigs and poultry), but it is still the case that many more sentient lives are sacrificed to produce useable protein from grains than from rangelands cattle. "

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Nethertherless I hold that if required the majority would make the transition within 2 weeks.

People can go as far as becoming cannibals if necessary, I don't get your point.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

People can go as far as becoming cannibals if necessary, I don't get your point.

We are still hunter gatherers at a core level no matter what veneer civilization applies. There simply isn't the clear cut distinction that some claim.

 

[Patrick_68000]

We are still hunter gatherers at a core level no matter what veneer civilization applies. There simply isn't the clear cut distinction that some claim.

I like to pick the fruits.

I love fruits and chocolate too and yogurts.

I think I could live only with that, or at least survive.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

The article you linked talks only about Australia which has ideal conditions to feed cattle on pasture not to mention they didn't compare the effects of other farm animals such as chickens or pigs, at last, they did the comparison to wheat on protein, wheat is not known to have much protein in the first place so the comparison is disingenuous.

"Some of this grain is used to “finish” beef cattle in feed lots (some is food for dairy cattle, pigs and poultry), but it is still the case that many more sentient lives are sacrificed to produce useable protein from grains than from rangelands cattle. "

Did you actually read the part you put in bold?

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Did you actually read the part you put in bold?

Yes, that's the only thing the article "proves". As you may notice, it's not nearly as flashy or broad as the title of the article or your quote suggests.

And now that I noticed, that quote would be more precise if "grains" was substituted by "wheat" which is the only grain on which calculations were made.