PLEASE MAKE POWERPLAY IN "OPEN ONLY"

[lenna]

Ever think that even the most dedicated people have limits?

No "limits" excuse some of the individual behaviours that may have driven some away from PP (or at least PP in Open).

It would, simply as it makes fortifying more difficult. Right now its 100% safe and predictable, and can be done top to toe in a few days- you also have consolidation and station reports plus lots of disposable income to buy everything. With players intruding in capitals sniping inbound fort hauls, or hot spot mega UM systems, you then have an extra dimension that currently can only be countered by hard grinding- and even then sometimes thats not enough.

I disagree - you are not guaranteed to be instanced with opposing parties thus it would just put some people off engaging in PP at all because of the behaviours of some.

Ultimately, the key issue is the underlying mechanics - PvP opportunity concerns are separate from that.

What was Powerplay supposed to be when it launched? The answer is ultimately not known since it was half built. Its mutated all of its own accord, and has drifted for far too long.

It was quite clear from the design that it was meant to be a higher level PvE mechanic with persistent NPCs with specific ideals to represent the associated factions.

But if you have squadrons that can affect PP via merits earnt, thats still the same position as before.

I think you miss the point - the Squadron based PP-like mechanics would be related to but separate from PP, possibly like PP is related to the BGS. Like I said, perhaps it could be handled better via a completely separate Squadron alliance mechanic.

 

[lenna]

Why is it you have a tooltip cheerfully say "want to team up? Find a squadron!". How about tooltips for each Power? "Hey you! Join Hudson and make the galaxy great again!". This is not hard stuff to do but is glaringly absent.

They have a prominent and dedicated "Gallactic Power" section of the user interface with info pages dedicated to each of them, as well as a special galaxy map mode, and there are GalNet articles featuring at least some of the PP faction leaders. It could not get much more in your face than that.

Given the general state of current real world politics though, I can not blame any new players from eschewing PP - in some ways it is too much like what we see in the press/media. Especially given the tag line you have just used.

 

[Darkfyre99]

They left when they realised Powerplay was half finished, grindy and that modes bypassed any way of direct confrontation, leaving glorified CGs that in the end were meaningless because Powers could not die. As time has gone on, PP has drifted with no real place, slowly filling up and being abused by 5C- all the while the BGS caught up and overtook it.

You're conflating Open mode with Powerplay in general. Players left Open long before they started leaving Powerplay due to the inherent problems of Powerplay's design. They left because a handful of jerks, who weren't even pledged to other Powers, keep attacking them. And when those most sensitive to jerk-like behavior left for other modes, the jerks vanished soon afterwards.

Fix the flaws in Powerplay's design, and the players will return. Provide Powerplay missions, and the players who didn't like the ways to earn merits will come back. Fix the 5th column exploits, and players who left because they got frustrated that a handful of jerks able to easily disrupt powers that way, rather than undermining, will return. Remove the absurdity of Powerplay commodity allotments and "fast tracking", and players who quit hauling due to RSI will return. Replace ranking and merit decay with an a-la-carte purchasing of favors (from bonus credits, to rankings within the power, to even simple cosmetic changes like, for example, being able to purchase the rank of Patron within the Empire), and players will come back.

But Open Only? It will deter players not interested in PvP, those players who left Open previously due to PvP will quit entirely, and a slowly dying feature of the game will die all the quicker, and Frontier won't ever bother further developing a feature that has, so obviously, failed.

Can someone reset Rubberbot and Maynardbot? They seem to be stuck in a loop.

Green must fight purple. Purple must fight green. There is no other way.

 

[lenna]

Green must fight purple. Purple must fight green. There is no other way.

Except when purple leader takes green leader's sash (or visa versa).

 

[Robert Maynard]

Its supposed to be end game content, something you spend your cash on. Plus there is no difficulty curve at all if you face what is essentially starter ships.

Hardly "end game" content when pledging is available after gaining only a singular rank step (i.e. the point at which one cannot return to the starter zone if one docks outside it) - and cash has become easier and easier to gain over time.

But if players are the only effective opposition in a mode thats totally player driven, what do you do? Cut them out by 2/3?

The feature is player driven - opposition difficulty from NPCs is Frontier defined. Players in Open are presumably seeking the frisson of the optional play-style that is PvP - that's up to them, of course, but the challenge posed by players is entirely optional.

 

[Rubbernuke]

They have a prominent and dedicated "Gallactic Power" section of the user interface with info pages dedicated to each of them, as well as a special galaxy map mode, and there are GalNet articles featuring at least some of the PP faction leaders. It could not get much more in your face than that.

Given the general state of current real world politics though, I can not blame any new players from eschewing PP - in some ways it is too much like what we see in the press/media. Especially given the tag line you have just used.

But thats the point: nothing says Powerplay- its tucked away. Nothing is explained in game at all, no opportunities given to give Power leaders some screentime that relates to what players do. The last time that happened was Cadoc writing his Galnet summaries for FD, got burnt by it and then left ED entirely.

Unless you know from habit where things are and what they do, you can sail right past them. And that does not even take into account menu items like nomination, which do nothing and yet still sit in the menu confusing people. There is nothing to educate players about CC, what system is good, what a bubble is, control / exploited etc.

Plus, although Power leaders get stories, they have no bearing (or players have no bearing on them). They are divorced from Powerplay completely- you could replace them with pictures of fruit with no impact.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

And thats why people like me are holding signs saying

BLOODY WELL HURRY UP

Because the people that keep Powerplay going each week (the people who each cycle plan attacks, calculate, write blogs, update Reddits etc) do not have infinite patience. Its them that keep the feature going and FD have squandered them.

Sorry, i think they have other priorities, like space legs, icy planets, fleet carriers. Things that will likely appeal to a much larger demographic.

 

[WR3ND]

It depends what difficulty level Frontier want to attach to the feature - players don't set that in anything but Open.

.... and, in a game where PvP is optional and two of the three paths to Elite don't require the player to fire a shot, I don't expect that Frontier will make NPCs as capable as players.

They don't need to make them as capable one on one (assuming Frontier could account for all the meta variables in a contextually apt way ahead of every encounter, it probably wouldn't be ideal for nurturing a diverse player base that have different approaches to the game), but they could have optional (in terms of engagement) much more challenging PVE opposition (combat or otherwise) for likewise greater reward. This could be dynamically weighted and balanced under-the-hood between Powerplay activities to encourage diverse approaches and contextual relevance instead of piling on one way or another, if designed to account for player manipulation. This could also allow for development of additional new ways of participating in Powerplay that would find equilibrium with the risks and rewards involved in Powerplay overall.

People could still go on participating in Powerplay the same ways they might care to regardless of mode, but might be incentivized to challenge themselves more or try new things for greater reward.

There would likely need to also be some hard limits based on player meta data and feature usage so people on either extreme of various activity spectrums aren't made irrelevant nor too overwhelmingly influential, while accounting for one-sided efforts aptly.

This would all be mode-agnostic, and could offer scalable and comparable challenge and reward regardless of mode.

I think something like this could actually be a good thing for PVP combat as well as it could find a niche within this dynamic range and the context of the game instead of being more of an outlier (in these terms).

Just some rambling thoughts on my part. I'm not sure Frontier would want to change Powerplay around to this extent nor how viable it would be in practice anyway.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Its supposed to be end game content

Which by these days reckoning is after 1 day of playing

 

[Rubbernuke]

I disagree - you are not guaranteed to be instanced with opposing parties thus it would just put some people off engaging in PP at all because of the behaviours of some.

But the chance is there, the same chance you have spawning an NPC trying to interdict you. Plus, with the proposed changes you focus areas of activity down considerably. Plus, its part of your job to kill rivals, and them kill you. If people object to being shot at (and think that death by NPC is the same as death by players), they are in the wrong role.

Ultimately, the key issue is the underlying mechanics - PvP opportunity concerns are separate from that.

I can't disagree with that; but until FD clarify that they have an alternative, we can only go on what they have published on the forum. Of that, Open recruits players to disrupt the routine.

It was quite clear from the design that it was meant to be a higher level PvE mechanic with persistent NPCs with specific ideals to represent the associated factions.

At the time, yes. It was also supposed to be a closed loop that had the novelty of semi permanent death. Now PP finds itself with a highly polished BGS that does what PP originally was intended for.

 

[Rubbernuke]

You're conflating Open mode with Powerplay in general. Players left Open long before they started leaving Powerplay due to the inherent problems of Powerplay's design. They left because a handful of jerks, who weren't even pledged to other Powers, keep attacking them. And when those most sensitive to jerk-like behavior left for other modes, the jerks vanished soon afterwards.

Fix the flaws in Powerplay's design, and the players will return. Provide Powerplay missions, and the players who didn't like the ways to earn merits will come back. Fix the 5th column exploits, and players who left because they got frustrated that a handful of jerks able to easily disrupt powers that way, rather than undermining, will return. Remove the absurdity of Powerplay commodity allotments and "fast tracking", and players who quit hauling due to RSI will return. Replace ranking and merit decay with an a-la-carte purchasing of favors (from bonus credits, to rankings within the power, to even simple cosmetic changes like, for example, being able to purchase the rank of Patron within the Empire), and players will come back.

But Open Only? It will deter players not interested in PvP, those players who left Open previously due to PvP will quit entirely, and a slowly dying feature of the game will die all the quicker, and Frontier won't ever bother further developing a feature that has, so obviously, failed.

Your reasons are quite right, but ultimately the lack of interaction drove people away- hauling in solo is dull with nothing to fill up the journey. Hauling and getting pulled over is quite the thrill, especially if its driven by the necessity of a free form conflict like Powerplay. Sadly that did not happen enough, because people realised they could do all that in solo, get the bits they wanted without risk. Players won't return because all of those things are now catered for by the BGS. Some of your suggestions are good, but unless PP becomes the BGS (in which case why the duplication?) or it offers something different entirely there is no point to rebuilding what already exists again.

and Frontier won't ever bother further developing a feature that has, so obviously, failed.

Like now?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Hardly "end game" content when pledging is available after gaining only a singular rank step (i.e. the point at which one cannot return to the starter zone if one docks outside it) - and cash has become easier and easier to gain over time.

There is no pop up on getting Elite combat rank that says:

WELL DONE COMMANDER MAYNARD! YOU ARE NOW WORTHY OF POWERPLAY!

As with all things in ED, you can do it when you feel the time is right. However you need a capable ship, some cash reserves and skills (i.e. react to danger).

The feature is player driven - opposition difficulty from NPCs is Frontier defined. Players in Open are presumably seeking the frisson of the optional play-style that is PvP - that's up to them, of course, but the challenge posed by players is entirely optional.

But if no NPC challenges you fortifying- (which happens an awful lot) then unless you view the station toast rack as an enemy you can fortify with no opposition. Your only enemy then is time and sanity.

Open is more of a challenge, with more to lose because the dangers are real, even if you don't meet someone. The potential to meet a lethal situation is much greater.

 

[lenna]

But thats the point: nothing says Powerplay- its tucked away. Nothing is explained in game at all, no opportunities given to give Power leaders some screentime that relates to what players do. The last time that happened was Cadoc writing his Galnet summaries for FD, got burnt by it and then left ED entirely.

Unless you know from habit where things are and what they do, you can sail right past them. And that does not even take into account menu items like nomination, which do nothing and yet still sit in the menu confusing people. There is nothing to educate players about CC, what system is good, what a bubble is, control / exploited etc.

Plus, although Power leaders get stories, they have no bearing (or players have no bearing on them). They are divorced from Powerplay completely- you could replace them with pictures of fruit with no impact.

The galactic powers access point has primacy in the UI along side GalNet and Engineers, not exactly hidden.

Further more, I suggest you review the Codex again - Codex has the PP leaders names and back stories in [Codex] --> [Knowledge Base] --> [Individuals] and the Pilots Handbook "does mention Power Play" in at least one place [Codex] --> [Pilots Handbook] --> [Maps] --> [Galaxy Map - View - Power Play]. The Galactic Powers screens also do go into quite some detail too.

Squadrons on the other hand do not have any mention in the Codex at all - they have a bigger button on the right hand display, that is it really.

 

[Rubbernuke]

They don't need to make them as capable one on one (assuming Frontier could account for all the meta variables in a contextually apt way ahead of every encounter, it probably wouldn't be ideal for nurturing a diverse player base that have different approaches to the game), but they could have optional (in terms of engagement) much more challenging PVE opposition (combat or otherwise) for likewise greater reward. This could be dynamically weighted and balanced under-the-hood between Powerplay activities to encourage diverse approaches and contextual relevance instead of piling on one way or another, if designed to account for player manipulation. This could also allow for development of additional new ways of participating in Powerplay that would find equilibrium with the risks and rewards involved in Powerplay overall.

People could still go on participating in Powerplay the same ways they might care to regardless of mode, but might be incentivized to challenge themselves more or try new things for greater reward.

There would likely need to also be some hard limits based on player meta data and feature usage so people on either extreme of various skill spectrums aren't made irrelevant nor too overwhelmingly influential, while accounting for one-sided efforts aptly.

This would all be mode-agnostic, and could offer scalable and comparable challenge and reward regardless of mode.

I think something like this could actually be a good thing for PVP combat as well as it could find a niche within this dynamic range and the context of the game instead of being more of an outlier (in these terms).

Just some rambling thoughts on my part. I'm not sure Frontier would want to change Powerplay around to this extent nor how viable it would be in practice anyway.

The thing is though, unless FD make NPCs capable of chasing you in SC, HW, around stations in a joined up way, even harder PP NPCs won't make that much of a difference. But other than that harder NPCs would be welcome.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The galactic powers access point has primacy in the UI along side GalNet and Engineers, not exactly hidden.

Further more, I suggest you review the Codex again - Codex has the PP leaders names and back stories in [Codex] --> [Knowledge Base] --> [Individuals] and the Pilots Handbook "does mention Power Play" in at least one place [Codex] --> [Pilots Handbook] --> [Maps] --> [Galaxy Map - View - Power Play]. The Galactic Powers screens also do go into quite some detail too.

Squadrons on the other hand do not have any mention in the Codex at all - they have a bigger button on the right hand display, that is it really.

I've read all the Leader codexes- it was wonderful to see them. But none of that relates to anything in Powerplay from a gameplay perspective. And although people have the wonderfully colourful PP map, no-where does it tell you what the options, numbers, colours etc mean. No-where does it tell you about favourable systems, why has your fort trigger changed, why close systems are bad for prep. Its like giving my children a map and telling them to travel to the nearest town.

 

[Darkfyre99]

The feature is player driven - opposition difficulty from NPCs is Frontier defined. Players in Open are presumably seeking the frisson of the optional play-style that is PvP - that's up to them, of course, but the challenge posed by players is entirely optional.

That's pretty much why I choose to play in Open. Unlike other PvE games with open-PvP I've played in the past, I'm having a remarkable amount of fun, and even when at its worst, the level of player-killing never reached the level where I started asking myself, "Why am I doing this to myself?" I'm already not likely to encounter 95%* of the potential opposition simply due to not playing at the same time, with an additional 1% I'll never be instanced with due to them not playing regionally with me. Why should I care that I won't get to interact with another 1% of the potential opposition due to playing in other modes?

I would much rather have four times the number of players playing Powerplay that I'll never interact with, compared to forcing other players into Open... especially since there's hardly any guarantee that I'll interact with any of them, given how this game's instancing "works." At least with the former, the overall Open population will also be bigger, and with everyone in Open voluntarily, combat logging, cheating, and other jerk-like behavior will be a lot lower.

YMMV

_
*I've noticed that since I stopped doing shift work, my available time to play this game has nearly doubled, because family ferry services are now shared much more equally.

 

[Rubbernuke]

All well and true. But nothing that would be fixed by going open only. It's like proposing to replace an unspiced pea soup (in where you never really liked pea soup, no matter the spice) with a currywurst, instead of just put some salt and pepper to the soup. Makes no sense to me. And if you think, OOPP is trivial and not comparable to a new meal like the currywurst in my example, you grossly underestimate (or just prefer to ignore, as it already was shown in great detail) the obstacles on the way to a decent resolution.

I've explained at great length what Open would do, and in the context of a game where PP has no real reason to be any longer, needs to find its place.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Sorry, i think they have other priorities, like space legs, icy planets, fleet carriers. Things that will likely appeal to a much larger demographic.

And Power Play going Open Only will only exacerbate the problem.

 

[Rubbernuke]

That's pretty much why I choose to play in Open. Unlike other PvE games with open-PvP I've played in the past, I'm having a remarkable amount of fun, and even when at its worst, the level of player-killing never reached the level where I started asking myself, "Why am I doing this to myself?" I'm already not likely to encounter 95%*

YMMV

_
*I've noticed that since I stopped doing shift work, my available time to play this game has nearly doubled, because family ferry services are now shared much more equally.

And how does that square when all fortifying would go to one system, potential fort races in mega UM systems, prep races between powers in the same system etc?

 

[Robert Maynard]

There is no pop up on getting Elite combat rank that says:

WELL DONE COMMANDER MAYNARD! YOU ARE NOW WORTHY OF POWERPLAY!

Of course there isn't - as achieving Elite rank is not a requirement of engaging in Powerplay.

As with all things in ED, you can do it when you feel the time is right. However you need a capable ship, some cash reserves and skills (i.e. react to danger).

Indeed - which could be just after the first Void Opal mining session.

But if no NPC challenges you fortifying- (which happens an awful lot) then unless you view the station toast rack as an enemy you can fortify with no opposition. Your only enemy then is time and sanity.

Just as no player challenging another player fortifying in Open may happen regularly for players with poor internet connections, who play at a globally quiet time of day, who inadvertently can't see other players because of default router settings, who share a connection with people on NetFlix or other streaming services....

Open is more of a challenge, with more to lose because the dangers are real, even if you don't meet someone. The potential to meet a lethal situation is much greater.

.... and no less optional.