Could Frontier please demonstrate how to use the FSS enjoyably?

[-VR- Max Factor]

Oh, so merely taking a glance at a screen is playing a mini-game? Wow, I think I play mini-games every morning on the fridge as well.

Most people do not just glance at a screen as without pressing on the planets you get very little information. Most people use the system map to select what planet they intend to visit as you can't tell what they are from the Nav Computer, or do you glance at the system map, close it down and rely on pot luck in the nav computer. Sorry, but I don't see it somehow.

Truth be told, the sys map is disconnected from flying the ship athough you can set course to somewhere while doing it and you'll spend much less time in it compared to the FSS thus spending more time actually flying and exploring*.

You will spend the same amount of time actually travelling and exploring, that won't change. The difference is finding what is there that is different, one takes longer for more information (maybe too much I admit), the other takes 5 seconds.

*According to your definition of exploration.

According to the dictionary of what the word exploration means. I suggest you look it up.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Now you're getting desperate. If the FSS is a mini-game, so is the system map and galaxy map. But as it happens under the definition of mini-game, neither of them can be called that. As they are not seperate mini-games within a game. They are both integral parts of the game as a whole so therefore cannot be called mini-games.

Yes Max. You're absolutely right. Maps are minigames, and so is the Codex, Galnet, the Engineers status screen, etc.
Minigames EVERYWHERE!

If you want to accuse me of lying, now would be a good time to do it.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yes Max. You're absolutely right. Maps are minigames, and so is the Codex, Galnet, the Engineers status screen, etc.
Minigames EVERYWHERE!

If you want to accuse me of lying, now would be a good time to do it.

As I said. They are either all mini-games or not mini-games. You can't chop and change the definition for different parts of the game to suit your agenda.

As to clutching at straws, what straws are they?

 

[Shinji Ikari]

No it's not. So what do you do after the honk? I am pretty sure you go into the system map which in your words is disconnected to flying the ship and playing the select the planet mini-game.

I honk and then enter the FSS and play the scanning mini-game.

Oh look no difference apart from the type of mini-game. According to you both systems are disconnected to flying the ship.

(wrong quote, ignore)

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

As I said. They are either all mini-games or not mini-games. You can't chop and change the definition for different parts of the game to suit your agenda.

As to clutching at straws, what straws are they?

The straws you're clutching are the ones you'll use to attempt to deflect any criticism of the FSS.

From wikipedia:

A minigame (also spelled mini-game or mini game, sometimes called a subgame or microgame) is a short video game often contained within another video game, and sometimes in application software or on a display of any form of hardware. A minigame contains different gameplay elements than the main game, may be optional, and is often smaller or more simplistic than the game in which it is contained.

Relevant points highlighted.

Clearly the FSS meets the criteria for being a minigame - both being unrelated to flying a ship (or driving an SRV) and undeniably smaller and more simplistic than ED as a whole.

As to the System Map - it doesn't provide any gameplay elements since selecting a body is not gameplay, nor is looking at a picture or reading text description. The map is entirely passive - there's nothing you can do in the map screen to change the content of the map - so again, there is no gameplay. Consequently, it can't be a minigame.

Simply being 'out-of-cockpit' does not make something a minigame. The FSS would be a minigame even if it was part of the main UI, rather than being a separate screen.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Most people do not just glance at a screen as without pressing on the planets you get very little information. Most people use the system map to select what planet they intend to visit as you can't tell what they are from the Nav Computer, or do you glance at the system map, close it down and rely on pot luck in the nav computer. Sorry, but I don't see it somehow.

I take a glance, decide if there is anything good, if there is then I select that object and then go and explore. That's nothing like a mini-game.

You will spend the same amount of time actually travelling and exploring, that won't change. The difference is finding what is there that is different, one takes longer for more information (maybe too much I admit), the other takes 5 seconds.

For that to be true, you must be actually be travelling and exploring while using the FSS, you definetly do not travel while using the FSS.

According to the dictionary of what the word exploration means. I suggest you look it up.

Under that definition, the usage of the FSS and the ADS is exploration but as we saw, you disagree, thus, your definition is simply not the same.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

As does

The straws you're clutching are the ones you'll use to attempt to deflect any criticism of the FSS.

From wikipedia:

A minigame (also spelled mini-game or mini game, sometimes called a subgame or microgame) is a short video game often contained within another video game, and sometimes in application software or on a display of any form of hardware. A minigame contains different gameplay elements than the main game, may be optional, and is often smaller or more simplistic than the game in which it is contained.

Relevant points highlighted.

Clearly the FSS meets the criteria for being a minigame - both being unrelated to flying a ship (or driving an SRV) and undeniably smaller and more simplistic than ED as a whole.

As to the System Map - it doesn't provide any gameplay elements since selecting a body is not gameplay, nor is looking at a picture or reading text description. The map is entirely passive - there's nothing you can do in the map screen to change the content of the map - so again, there is no gameplay. Consequently, it can't be a minigame.

Simply being 'out-of-cockpit' does not make something a minigame. The FSS would be a minigame even if it was part of the main UI, rather than being a separate screen.

When I use the system map and galaxy map I have to move a reticule around to select a target. That is as much gameplay as the FSS.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Best not to bother engaging with Last Word Max.
Chasing him down rabbit holes on dumb tangential arguments doesn't get anyone anywhere.

The bottom line is that restoring the ADS as a module solves the issue and doesn't affect anyone else because they wouldn't need to fit it.

No side arguments, fancy rhetoric, or needless pedantry changes that fundamental point.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

As does

When I use the system map and galaxy map I have to move a reticule around to select a target. That is as much gameplay as the FSS.

Nope. It's really not.

Selecting an item on the map does not provide any reward, nor does it alter the environment you're operating in. It simply selects the item.

When you use the FSS to resolve an item you gain a reward (credits and tags), and you alter the environment by displaying the resolved body in the main screen, on the System Map and on the Nav Panel. That's significantly different to the System Map, so there's clearly significantly more gameplay in the FSS.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Best not to bother engaging with Last Word Max.
Chasing him down rabbit holes on dumb tangential arguments doesn't get anyone anywhere.

Still more fun than using the FSS

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I take a glance, decide if there is anything good, if there is then I select that object and then go and explore. That's nothing like a mini-game.

And that is how people use the FSS. Use the FSS select something and explore.

For that to be true, you must be actually be travelling and exploring while using the FSS, you definetly do not travel while using the FSS.

Why?

Under that definition, the usage of the FSS and the ADS is exploration but as we saw, you disagree, thus, your definition is simply not the same.

Under the definition of exploring, you need to be travelling. The honk is done as soon as you enter the system. You don't travel while using it as like the FSS. Using them on their own is not exploring.

Using them with travel is exploring.

 

[Faded Glory]

Nope. It's really not.

Selecting an item on the map does not provide any reward, nor does it alter the environment you're operating in. It simply selects the item.

When you use the FSS to resolve an item you gain a reward (credits and tags), and you alter the environment by displaying the resolved body in the main screen, on the System Map and on the Nav Panel. That's significantly different to the System Map, so there's clearly significantly more gameplay in the FSS.

Not to mention that in 'explored' space, the maps have a potential alternative... The navigation tab.

Alternatives are good!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Nope. It's really not.

Selecting an item on the map does not provide any reward, nor does it alter the environment you're operating in. It simply selects the item.

Depends on what you would call a reward and I don't care about altering the environment. I am assuming you mean tags.

When you use the FSS to resolve an item you gain a reward (credits and tags), and you alter the environment by displaying the resolved body in the main screen, on the System Map and on the Nav Panel. That's significantly different to the System Map, so there's clearly significantly more gameplay in the FSS.

Irrelavent.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Best not to bother engaging with Last Word Max.
Chasing him down rabbit holes on dumb tangential arguments doesn't get anyone anywhere.

I just point out the hypocrisy that people spout in an attempt to justify there views. They don't need to justify a subjective opinion. Just say you don't like it, much better then coming up with bizarre analogies and hypocritical sentences don't you think.

The bottom line is that restoring the ADS as a module solves the issue and doesn't affect anyone else because they wouldn't need to fit it.

Possibly and something I am not totally against.

No side arguments, fancy rhetoric, or needless pedantry changes that fundamental point.

That would be nice.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Depends on what you would call a reward and I don't care about altering the environment. I am assuming you mean tags.

It doesn't matter whether you care about it or not, it's still a reward. Gameplay provides rewards, that's pretty much the definition of it.

Irrelavent.

No Max, it's not irrelevant, it's fundamental to the difference between an information screen and a minigame - if interacting with a screen makes no difference to the environment then it isn't gameplay, and if there isn't gameplay, there isn't a minigame.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I just point out the hypocrisy that people spout in an attempt to justify there views. They don't need to justify a subjective opinion. Just say you don't like it, much better then coming up with bizarre analogies and hypocritical sentences don't you think.

We said we didn't like it.
People asked us to explain why.
We explained why.
People said it wasn't valid.
We explained why we consider it valid.
People said we were being hypocritical.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

And that is how people use the FSS. Use the FSS select something and explore.

You cannot glance at the FSS to decide if you want to do more work or not and the FSS is not only about that, the FSS requiers active participation of the pilot to yield the information, the system map is only a tool to review the data you have.

Why?

I won't explain you everything Max, learn to think.

Under the definition of exploring, you need to be travelling. The honk is done as soon as you enter the system. You don't travel while using it as like the FSS. Using them on their own is not exploring.

Using them with travel is exploring.

False and you can use the honk while moving which is what I always did to save time, arrive, get closer to the main star while charging the honk and once it was done I'd take a quick glance at the system map.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

We said we didn't like it.
People asked us to explain why.
We explained why.
People said it wasn't valid.
We explained why we consider it valid.
People said we were being hypocritical.

Try to explain why, that also doesn't apply to the ADS as well. It would help, don't you think?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Try to explain why, that also doesn't apply to the ADS as well. It would help, don't you think?

You mean the minigame thing?
Well you could argue that the ADS was a minigame from the perspective of rewards and changing the environment, and it was undeniably simplistic. However, others (and I believe you too) have argued vehemently that pressing a button for 5 seconds doesn't constitute gameplay - so it fails to meet that criterion for being a minigame. No gameplay == not a minigame.

If anything, the ADS was more akin to a loading screen than a minigame.

So, as has been stated before, the FSS places a minigame between the player and what they consider to be the core gameplay - flying a spaceship. The fact that the FSS is out-of-cockpit and requires the ship to be 'stationary' exacerbates the disconnect between the minigame and the core game.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You cannot glance at the FSS to decide if you want to do more work or not and the FSS is not only about that, the FSS requiers active participation of the pilot to yield the information, the system map is only a tool to review the data you have.

Yes you can.

I won't explain you everything Max, learn to think.

I am asking because it doesnt make sense. I can think perfectly fine thanks.

False and you can use the honk while moving which is what I always did to save time, arrive, get closer to the main star while charging the honk and once it was done I'd take a quick glance at the system map.

Yes you can use the honk while moving, but all you are doing is scooping and/or moving to the next jump point.

As I said, if the FSS is exploring according to you guys while standing still so is the ADS. Just because you can move is irrelevant.

The comment was describing it in a negative way to describe the FSS when it 100% applies to both. You can't call one bad and no the other in that sense.