Why are player interdictions so impossible to evade?

[Micha]

Since you're talking about outfitting, Let me just add that my krait was outfitted for mining, where all of my optional internals were taken up by cargo racks, limpet controllers, and a fuel scoop.

Don't worry about them. For PvP players, any ship which isn't at least 80% loaded with HRPs and MRP's, ideally some SCB's, as well as engineered isn't considered "properly" outfitted. The only gameplay they recognise is combat.

I was flying a CM3 and got attacked the other week. Like you, I lost the interdiction despite being near perfect (and I haven't lost to an NPC in as long as I can remember) - in fact, when I realised that I was going to lose this no matter what, I submitted, but instead, the game treated me as having been fully interdicted (ie, crash out of SC and long FSD cooldown). So I'm guessing it was the attackers' PC which dictated whether or not I submitted, not my PC.

My CM3 (engineered shields, military hull, and a HRP) was down to 50% hull after one shot and destroyed on the second by a (presumably) well-engineered gank-Python.

So basically, what the PvP'ers say is ; even a reasonably (not fully) defensively-engineered ship stands no chance against a fully-engineered attack ship; certainly not if there's a size-class difference between the ships.

Could I have done better? Almost certainly; I have little PvP experience. Personally I stick to PGs most of the time until the massive disparities between engineered and partially or unengineered ships is removed from the game. There's zero skill involved in shooting fish in a barrel but some people get their jollies from it. I refuse to be a fish except under exceptional circumstances such as the other week when I fully expect to get destroyed.

----

As for the interdiction being not only slightly in favour of the aggressor, but also the bar continuing to go up in favour of the aggressor even if both sides are perfectly aligned, that really sucks; shame on FDev. If both sides are perfectly aligned, neither bar should go up. So what if the interdictions take longer? But at least remove the built-in "cheating".

 

[CMDR Curiosity97]

Don't worry about them. For PvP players, any ship which isn't at least 80% loaded with HRPs and MRP's, ideally some SCB's, as well as engineered isn't considered "properly" outfitted. The only gameplay they recognise is combat.

I was flying a CM3 and got attacked the other week. Like you, I lost the interdiction despite being near perfect (and I haven't lost to an NPC in as long as I can remember) - in fact, when I realised that I was going to lose this no matter what, I submitted, but instead, the game treated me as having been fully interdicted (ie, crash out of SC and long FSD cooldown). So I'm guessing it was the attackers' PC which dictated whether or not I submitted, not my PC.

My CM3 (engineered shields, military hull, and a HRP) was down to 50% hull after one shot and destroyed on the second by a (presumably) well-engineered gank-Python.

So basically, what the PvP'ers say is ; even a reasonably (not fully) defensively-engineered ship stands no chance against a fully-engineered attack ship; certainly not if there's a size-class difference between the ships.

Could I have done better? Almost certainly; I have little PvP experience. Personally I stick to PGs most of the time until the massive disparities between engineered and partially or unengineered ships is removed from the game. There's zero skill involved in shooting fish in a barrel but some people get their jollies from it. I refuse to be a fish except under exceptional circumstances such as the other week when I fully expect to get destroyed.

----

As for the interdiction being not only slightly in favour of the aggressor, but also the bar continuing to go up in favour of the aggressor even if both sides are perfectly aligned, that really sucks; shame on FDev. If both sides are perfectly aligned, neither bar should go up. So what if the interdictions take longer? But at least remove the built-in "cheating".

Thank you for at the very least understanding.
Nothing grinds my gears more than people snarkily trying to "help" by telling you that everything is all your fault despite just about everything that I typed that proved to the contrary.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Don't worry about them. For PvP players, any ship which isn't at least 80% loaded with HRPs and MRP's, ideally some SCB's, as well as engineered isn't considered "properly" outfitted. The only gameplay they recognise is combat.

I am not a PvP player, and I fly a DBS. I don't get ganked, and have zero HRPs, MRPs or SCBs. There are many, many different ways to prevent being ganked in Open, and nearly all ships have different ways to achieve that.

As for the interdiction being not only slightly in favour of the aggressor, but also the bar continuing to go up in favour of the aggressor even if both sides are perfectly aligned, that really sucks; shame on FDev. If both sides are perfectly aligned, neither bar should go up. So what if the interdictions take longer? But at least remove the built-in "cheating".

The technical networking reasons for why it is are explicitly explained in this topic. It isn't about 'so what if the interdictions take longer'. That part is countered differently: by an increasing modifier as time goes on.

Thank you for at the very least understanding.
Nothing grinds my gears more than people snarkily trying to "help" by telling you that everything is all your fault despite just about everything that I typed that proved to the contrary.

Haha, no. You clearly made numerous mistakes. But you simply don't want to own up to any of them or even consider the possibility. Instead you come here, call your own performance 'near perfect' (despite losing every single time, but hey, minor detail), and instead of considering the many things you've done wrong you wonder whether it is because the other cheated or your ship isn't good enough. You just want to hear from others it wasn't your fault, and if you hear something else you start calling them names. But you know what? When an interdiction starts in the first place you made a mistake. When you lose the interdiction you made a mistake. When you get blown up 'literally instantly' (lol) you made a mistake.

If you seriously want to tell people the above happened and it isn't your fault: best of luck with the game. I am sure namecalling, raging, blameshifting and liking posts that you find comfortable to hear will help tremendously.

Sincerely,
-A jackass

 

[Micha]

Thank you for at the very least understanding.
Nothing grinds my gears more than people snarkily trying to "help" by telling you that everything is all your fault despite just about everything that I typed that proved to the contrary.

To be fair, @Ian Skippy was trying to help. It's the internet, "snarky" isn't necessarily the intent when someone types something. It's notoriously difficult to ascribe emotion to text and often it's just down to cultural/regional differences of expression.

That said, I don't agree with the assessment that any ship can be made gank-proof with minimal modifications. Would love to see experienced PvP'ers demonstrate a "realistic" (ie, not fully engineered PvP (either offence or defence)) ship build escaping a fully-engineered attacker. I think that the definitions of what constitute "minimal modifications" differ vastly between general players and PvP'ers.

Neither is wrong, just a fundamentally different gameplay style. Currently the game is completely unbalanced (which, in itself is a ridiculously difficult task) so at the moment it's very difficult to get both sides playing together so that both sides end up with an enjoyable experience.

All IMHO, of course.

 

[Ian Skippy]

To be fair, @Ian Skippy was trying to help. It's the internet, "snarky" isn't necessarily the intent when someone types something. It's notoriously difficult to ascribe emotion to text and often it's just down to cultural/regional differences of expression.

That said, I don't agree with the assessment that any ship can be made gank-proof with minimal modifications. Would love to see experienced PvP'ers demonstrate a "realistic" (ie, not fully engineered PvP (either offence or defence)) ship build escaping a fully-engineered attacker. I think that the definitions of what constitute "minimal modifications" differ vastly between general players and PvP'ers.

Neither is wrong, just a fundamentally different gameplay style. Currently the game is completely unbalanced (which, in itself is a ridiculously difficult task) so at the moment it's very difficult to get both sides playing together so that both sides end up with an enjoyable experience.

All IMHO, of course.

The game is unbalanced in two ways: the power gap between PvP ships and anything else is immense. If you fly anything other than a PvP ship, you have approximately zero chance to beat a PvP griefer. However, the game mechanics strongly favor the defender. You cant be masslocked when hi-waking for example. Escaping takes +-20s including FSD cooldown (which is tiny when submitting), so all you need to do is stay alive for 20s. If you pop a chaff and/or heatsink, you force the other to use fixed weapons. One boost-pass and you've already covered 10 seconds. Any ship should be able to survive the remaining seconds: either by being agile, having a small profile and double-chaff, or soaking up damage for a few seconds.

It makes for a very odd situation where a defender can never beat the attacker and the attacker can never kill the defender, unless one of them makes a number of mistakes.

 

[Micha]

I am not a PvP player, and I fly a DBS. I don't get ganked, and have zero HRPs, MRPs or SCBs. There are many, many different ways to prevent being ganked in Open, and nearly all ships have different ways to achieve that.

...

When an interdiction starts in the first place you made a mistake. When you lose the interdiction you made a mistake. When you get blown up 'literally instantly' (lol) you made a mistake.

Sorry, I wasn't meaning specifically you when I talked about PvP'ers. My post was a general one.


1. Ok, so keeping awareness of surroundings helps, but sometimes interdictions start before you've even oriented yourself after jumping into the system. Maybe again due to latency issues, but it does happen.

2. You've agreed it's practically impossible to win an interdiction against a human; now you're saying it's the pilots' mistake if they lose it? Make up your mind

3. I'd like to see you not get blown up more or less instantly in your DBX when faced with a larger murder-ship engineered specifically for 5-10s kills.

 

[CMDR Curiosity97]

Haha, no. You clearly made numerous mistakes. But you simply don't want to own up to any of them or even consider the possibility. Instead you come here, call your own performance 'near perfect' (despite losing every single time, but hey, minor detail), and instead of considering the many things you've done wrong you wonder whether it is because the other cheated or your ship isn't good enough. You just want to hear from others it wasn't your fault, and if you hear something else you start calling them names. But you know what? When an interdiction starts in the first place you made a mistake. When you lose the interdiction you made a mistake. When you get blown up 'literally instantly' (lol) you made a mistake.

If you seriously want to tell people the above happened and it isn't your fault: best of luck with the game. I am sure namecalling, raging, blameshifting and liking posts that you find comfortable to hear will help tremendously.

Sincerely,
-A jackass

Again, missing literally everything I typed, for some reason.
Literally the second comment I made on this thread was in regards to me being inexperienced in several areas, having an underequipped ship, and simply not wanting to bother with the power disparity that the game presents me with. Never once did I say that it wasn't my fault, go ahead and quote me where I said that.
You honestly lost me at "When an interdiction starts, you made a mistake". Because unless you can track literally every player's ship from 360 degrees around you, even if they're behind you, there's literally zero ing way to tell if a player plans on interdicting you, and I have yet to see the "many, many different ways" that one can avoid being interdicted. It's like the mere concept that things can be outside of your control doesn't exist in your mind, and berating those who try to claim as such is your only defense for that.

 

[Ian Skippy]

2. You've agreed it's practically impossible to win an interdiction against a human; now you're saying it's the pilots' mistake if they lose it? Make up your mind

Sorry for being unclear: losing an interdiction means you try to win and fail. You should submit instead, at which point (as morbad pointed out earlier) the reduced cooldown guarantees escape.

 

[Micha]

You honestly lost me at "When an interdiction starts, you made a mistake". Because unless you can track literally every player's ship from 360 degrees around you, even if they're behind you, there's literally zero ing way to tell if a player plans on interdicting you

That is actually a fair point. If you're playing in Open you must track every other ship in the system. If they are NPCs, you only worry if they get on your six (ie, behind you). But if they are player ships (hollow squares/triangles), they can interdict you from at least a 45deg angle, probably more, with an engineered FSI. So you have to keep player ships in front of you, or far, far, behind you. And if you notice someone coming towards you, either head to deep space until they lose interest, or high-wake. They will always catch up to you as you reach your destination.

 

[Micha]

Sorry for being unclear: losing an interdiction means you try to win and fail. You should submit instead, at which point (as morbad pointed out earlier) the reduced cooldown guarantees escape.

I'd argue with the "guaranteed escape", but thanks for clarifying re the interdiction; makes more sense now!

 

[MickyG1982]

I've never found them impossible to evade, more difficult yes but never impossible.

Personally, I never submit, as a cargo hauler I feel it's always worth fighting the interdiction, if only for the satisfaction of leaving the interdictor stuck in normal space.

 

[CMDR Curiosity97]

That is actually a fair point. If you're playing in Open you must track every other ship in the system. If they are NPCs, you only worry if they get on your six (ie, behind you). But if they are player ships (hollow squares/triangles), they can interdict you from at least a 45deg angle, probably more, with an engineered FSI. So you have to keep player ships in front of you, or far, far, behind you. And if you notice someone coming towards you, either head to deep space until they lose interest, or high-wake. They will always catch up to you as you reach your destination.

So, basically my only option, then, is to leave the system if I catch a player looking at me funny?
Because you likely can't do both keeping them in front or far, far behind, if you have somewhere to go in that particular system.
If that's the case, I might as well just pick a whole different system to jump into if I see another player ship on my scanners.
At least that's something I can work with.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You honestly lost me at "When an interdiction starts, you made a mistake". Because unless you can track literally every player's ship from 360 degrees around you, even if they're behind you, there's literally zero ing way to tell if a player plans on interdicting you, and I have yet to see the "many, many different ways" that one can avoid being interdicted. It's like the mere concept that things can be outside of your control doesn't exist in your mind, and berating those who try to claim as such is your only defense for that.

I am not berating you. I am explaining you can prevent this from happening in the future. In any case, one of two things is possible:

1) A self-declared inexperienced player has things to learn.
2) Someone who flies in Open 100% of time, flying mostly small ships, without having been ganked in years, somehow lucked out for well over 2000 consecutive hours in a game where things are outside of my control yet miraculously don't go wrong for an inane number of hours.

Boy, I wonder which it is.

They will always catch up to you as you reach your destination.

Actually, no. That is a common misconception because people go for the 'straight approach at 7s' rule. It is when you slow down that indeed the other catches up and interdicts. The solution is to not slow down and use the gravity well as brake. That way during the final stretch you are facing the target head-on. If the opponent is an idiot, you can see if he is daft enough to interdict you through the planet. In that case just resist and grab some popcorn.

 

[Ian Skippy]

If that's the case, I might as well just pick a whole different system to jump into if I see another player ship on my scanners.
At least that's something I can work with.

You first scan them and check their outfitting. If it is a PvP ship, outfitted like it and carrying an FSDi while moving towards you; jumping to another system is a sensible choice if you fly a pve ship.

 

[Micha]

Actually, no. That is a common misconception because people go for the 'straight approach at 7s' rule. It is when you slow down that indeed the other catches up and interdicts. The solution is to not slow down and use the gravity well as brake. That way during the final stretch you are facing the target head-on.

You start slowing down a lot earlier though (no need for a 7's rule; actually, it's more a 6's rule, and occasionally you can get away with 5's...). I guess it depends how far behind you they are.

But yes, gravity-brake "loop-of-shame" can help, but it does rely on enough of a gap as well as experience in how quickly and by how much that gap closes as you approach different strength gravity wells.

Anway, I'm off for a beerski. Fly safe, or dangerously as you please, Commanders!

 

[Whiplash 1983]

When you tire of players you become familiar with as griefers you can start looking them up in your Comms / History / [ComanderName] and add them to your block list and you won't run into them casually again.

 

[CMDR Curiosity97]

You first scan them and check their outfitting. If it is a PvP ship, outfitted like it and carrying an FSDi while moving towards you; jumping to another system is a sensible choice if you fly a pve ship.

Honestly, in the time that it takes for me to get a complete scan on a player and read their modules, I could just not bother with that entire system, given everything that's going against me unless I'm specifically outfitted for being ganked.
I spend the majority of my time near Gateway, where I encounter very few, if any commanders, even in Open, so unbelievably, both are true.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Honestly, in the time that it takes for me to get a complete scan on a player and read their modules, I could just not bother with that entire system, given everything that's going against me unless I'm specifically outfitted for being ganked.
I spend the majority of my time near Gateway, where I encounter very few, if any commanders, even in Open, so unbelievably, both are true.

Well, one additional advantage of scanning ships in SC (beyond threat assessment) is that it is a cheap way to get data for engineering. And if you've scanned them, checking their outfitting takes little time. But everyone has their own approach, so see what works for you.

 

[CMDR Curiosity97]

Well, one additional advantage of scanning ships in SC (beyond threat assessment) is that it is a cheap way to get data for engineering. And if you've scanned them, checking their outfitting takes little time. But everyone has their own approach, so see what works for you.

Wait, so that's how you get those shield data scans?
How did I not realize this earlier
I had a handful of them sitting in my inventory and I could not for the life of me recall where they came from
Christ
I'm going to go die some more so I can try and learn something I guess

 

[znôrt]

I'll just have to submit next time then. Clearly that's the only option available to anyone.

it's the most reasonable option, as it gives you a huge jumpstart in form of a much lower cool down vs your agressor.

however, feel free to fight it. in that case i would suggest to study the mechanic as it is, not simply apply your preconceptions. good luck.

also, google helps. it works like this: you ask, then read, then use your brain. just saying because you've been dismissing and trashing a lot of good advice given to you in good faith and effort. maybe it's time you put some effort as well.