Maybe FDEV should just release the code and Cobra engine and everyone can make their own game based on ED. The way they want it to be. Then nobody would ever complain again and it will be all puppies and kittens from then on.
S
(Opinion) Fdev has messed up exploration
- Thread starter Threeofseven
- Start date
Maybe FDEV should just release the code and Cobra engine and everyone can make their own game based on ED. The way they want it to be. Then nobody would ever complain again and it will be all puppies and kittens from then on.
S
What I suggested doesn't provide players with the choice of a simple or complex way to achieve the same thing.
It simply provides players with an opportunity to do a simple thing OR a complex thing.
A more appropriate analogy would be to ask whether it'd be okay for players to instantly travel to Colonia.
The answer, of course, is that it wouldn't be okay but that doesn't mean that every journey MUST be to Colonia and that if people don't want to go to Colonia, why should anybody care if they only take 2 minute journeys around the bubble?
If people want to travel to Colonia, the only way to do that is to make the effort to travel there.
If people just want to kick around the bubble, that's up to them.
If people want to learn all about a system, the only way to do it is to make the effort to use the FSS.
If people just want to get a rough oveview of a system, that's up to them.
Seems like the only reason somebody might object is because they want to "travel to Colonia" and they think everybody else should have to do the same thing.
What's your source for this claim? Looking at the statistics from EDSM*, by today exploration activity has dropped below what it was during The Return and Beyond Chapter One. (At which time console players couldn't use EDSM.) Doesn't look like exploration got more popular, after DW2 has ended. (In fact, if Qohen Leth's statistics are correct, then the bodies and stars uploaded by DW2 participants accounted for a bit over 75% of the total upload during that time.) The overall trend has been a decreasing one ever since it reached BP, and the only question now seems to be where it will bottom out.
However, with the game's planned course being as it is, I don't think FD would be bothered by explorer (and/or overall player) activity decreasing.
Hopefully, while they are happy with how the FSS operates, they will still remember to fix all the exploration bugs sometime.
*: which is plenty representative of overall exploration activity, as over half of DW2's Commanders were registered on it, and a player who was on EDSM was 1.7 times more likely to have completed the expedition than one who wasn't. These despite the fact that using EDSM was entirely unnecessary for the expedition.
picommander, I have no hidden agenda.
I don't really have an opinion on alternate proposals, only that there was no need to gimp the pre-3.3 discovery process. I understand that people wanted to. This isn't a negotiation, there is no common ground between you & I, it's just the simple logic of the situation that the old stuff was needlessly removed. If it had been retained no player would have been worse off, including you. We would be able to have all the new stuff, and it would be a straight upgrade, just as adding planetary landing was, or wings, or multi-crew, or holo-me, or any number of other additions.
I am continuing to play with no ADS at all, so as far as the black body & either/or proposals are concerned I'd continue to play if those were implemented too and would probably use them, but the old functionality would still not have had to be removed, and I would still be looking for it to be reinstated. Had it never been added and the FSS Scanner Screen were in from the beginning I would be looking for an option to automate it, which would be far more OP than the ADS revealing [unexplored] bodies.
The pre-3.3 functionality wasn't removed from previously tagged & pre-populated systems, it is actually now much easier than before & knowing that isn't stopping you from enjoying the game, is it? What's the problem with that same behaviour working everywhere with an optional module? In for a penny...
But the fss is the fastest way available.
I appreciate you've said this is all subjective, but we can see clearly what you mean regarding the 'accountant style' of exploration. Thanks for making it very clear how this works, because we don't do it. It means squat. For others its the journey, and the fss was designed and advertised to literally remove the journey.
In summary, you shouldn't be getting frustrated, because the following core assumptions you come into these threads with are completely meaningless to others:
- Not liking the old ads (for 5 years) means absolutely nothing to some people.
- Many people prefer the journey to the complete balance sheet at the end. Imagine being the COO rather than the CFO, who then goes off and then uses the resources, not produces the accounts.
- 2d panning + zoom bouncing is impossible to be more than just tolerated in the context of elite dangerous.
So instead of making a decision to earn a reward you're given the reward before you know you want it and making the journey to go get it? How is that any better?
Wow, and we got attacked during beta feedback for playing the game via the system map.. extreme irony
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It's also worth mentioning that some explorers are continuing to explore despite not enjoying using the FSS. Parallax discovery still reports to EDSM despite not requiring use of the buggy mess that is the FSS.
I don't use EDSM, I don't use any external tools. I just play the game.
I appreciate you are using an extreme example here but let's go with it:
FDev add the ability to jump massive distances in a future update. No player is worse off, but it diminishes the sense of achievement.
Let's look at it the other way around: The existing game allows players to jump massive distances, in a future update FDev nerfs jump range, let's say they remove engineering from all FSDs. Players are no longer able to do something that they previously may have enjoyed (getting to Colonia really quickly for example), challenge is increased. Some will like this, some won't.
Let's look at how I see the exploration changes with the same analogy: The existing game allows players to jump massive distances, in a future update FDev adds jump gates to Colonia & other nebulae & popular tourist locations but nerfs jump range because it's no longer needed. Players who might never have bothered to visit a nebula before can now take pretty screenshots. Why was jump range nerfed? It didn't need to be
I appreciate you are using an extreme example here but let's go with it:
FDev add the ability to jump massive distances in a future update. No player is worse off, but it diminishes the sense of achievement.
Let's look at it the other way around: The existing game allows players to jump massive distances, in a future update FDev nerfs jump range, let's say they remove engineering from all FSDs. Players are no longer able to do something that they previously may have enjoyed (getting to Colonia really quickly for example), challenge is increased. Some will like this, some won't.
Let's look at how I see the exploration changes with the same analogy: The existing game allows players to jump massive distances, in a future update FDev adds jump gates to Colonia & other nebulae & popular tourist locations but nerfs jump range because it's no longer needed. Players who might never have bothered to visit a nebula before can now take pretty screenshots. Why was jump range nerfed? It didn't need to be
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A while ago you were moaning that somebody wasn't reading your posts.
If you'd read mine, you might have noticed that I agree with you.
Players SHOULD get a sense of achievement from accomplishing various things.
However, the FSS currently forces everybody to achieve the same thing you want to achieve regardless of whether they want to achieve that thing or not.
With the old ADS system (mostly) restored it DOES NOT give people an easy way to achieve the same thing you enjoy making an effort to achieve.
It gives them the choice to completely IGNORE the thing you enjoy and do something different - something that yields little or no quantifiable rewards - instead.
It's like you're saying you like flying to Colonia and then, when other people say they couldn't give two poops about Colonia, you're insisting they should have to fly to Colonia just like you do.
I see you also struggle with this crappy forum, at least I'm not the only idiot...
What you're saying boils down to blaming FD for not designing the game (or more specific: the exploration mechanics) properly from day one. I'll leave that judgment to yourself but I'm long enough with the game to know that's just the way how they create their game. They obviously don't care if that sometimes looks fairly dilettantish or even requires them to back-paddle at some point. So yeah, you should be careful with your analogies as your last one isn't totally out of order.
I edited the post for clarity and to correct typos, something I regularly do.
Nothing in what I say implies it should have been correct from day one.
When you use the FSS you get an analysis of the geological make-up of each planet, you receive discovery acknowledgement and you get a financial rewards for handing in exploration data.
A revised Honk would only fill in the sysmap without bestowing any of those achievements.
It would simply allow people to take a quick look at a system and make a snap judgement about whether to crank up the FSS or jump out to a different system.
You're using the FSS to establish ALL the information about a system.
People relying on the Honk/sysmap would be foregoing all that.
Different people choosing to do different things - NOT people using a quicker method to achieve the same things you want to achieve.
We not bring back the infinite honk ADS(easy mode system scan) and a FSD with infinite jump range(easy mode travel). Both sides get their infinite attribute.
Awww bless.
Still trying to pitch the 'ADS is easy mode' line, when the FSS allows infinite range scanning of bodies, without any of that pesky flying around the system malarkey.
Getting the whole system layout with one push of a button instead of having to find all the bodies malarkey.
I play a spaceship game, not 'Where's Wally?'.
To be fair, the FSS does frequently lie about where the bodies are, which makes it more challenging.
Sensors have ruined my spaceship game-play. Some people hate the old system, other people hate the new system and so shall it be until the end of time.
Oh you're totally allowed to hate the old system, but calling it 'easy mode' is laughable.
In the old system you are not finding planets you're only flying to them, you already know where they all are with one press of a button. You prefer the traveling to, instead of finding bodies.
New system: Finding grind
Old system: Supercruise travel grind
Currently I'm using parallax and proximity resolution: Finding grind AND supercruise travel grind