Boundary - semi realistic shooter in space

[Northpin]

The amount of thrust produced by man portable weapons is quite low

Yea, it is. But the worrying issues is where it is applied.
If your center of mass is at waist level and you fire the weapon at eye level, you will be tumbled over or the thrusters will have a waaay harder time keeping you still.

Anyway, i'll stop here.
Guess the semi- and -realistic have to meet somewhere to allow some gameplay.

 

[Morbad]

Finding more info on the game was rather difficult as it seems Sugical Scalples is a smaller Chinese developer and their site is pretty crap.

The actual trailer, which admittedly doesn't have much more footage, but shows some more of the development changes since 2017:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCddkAJVYRk

cold gas thrusters

In addition to the points in my previous post, I though of another contraindication for cold gas the other day...damage.

Puncture a high pressure gas cylinder and you'd likely go flying out of control while losing a significant portion of your thruster fuel.

Most of the modern green monopropellants are quite stable. They don't need to be kept under any significant pressure, and aren't even flammable (not that this would matter much in the absence of an oxidizer. So, a punctured fuel cell (which could be more protected/isolated/segmented than a pressure cylinder would only cost the small amount of fuel in it...unless your opponents were firing platinum or palladium bullets (the catalyst for the fuel).

Yea, it is. But the worrying issues is where it is applied.
If your center of mass is at waist level and you fire the weapon at eye level, you will be tumbled over or the thrusters will have a waaay harder time keeping you still.

Anyway, i'll stop here.
Guess the semi- and -realistic have to meet somewhere to allow some gameplay.

The center of mass for most naked humans is around waist or hip level, but why would this be the center of mass when the thruster pack and life support systems (cumulatively a lot more massive than the human strapped into them) are placed high on one's back and one is actively trying to minimize the effects of recoil on the system?

I watched all the gameplay footage I could find and I didn't see a single character that looked like their CoM would be below mid-chest, which makes sense because that's about the level all the packs thruster nozzles are equidistant from.

Even if this was supposed to be a hardcore ultra-realistic sim, the effects of recoil are one of the last things I'd criticize. There is nothing unrealistic about treating the thruster pack as an effectively fixed point for bracing one's self against recoil, rendering recoil no more, and possibly even less, of an issue than it would be standing on Earth.

While it's hard to tell from the limited material shown, I'd guess my main nitpicks are going to have to do with the endurance of the thruster pack. If these are 10-15 minute matches and everyone is buzzing around changing delta-v by ~15m/s three hundred times a fight, I'm going to wonder where all this fuel is coming from. How they handle sound in a vacuum could also be an issue; while it's not as clear cut as commonly portrayed (explosions, for example, can be heard when the the gasses and particulates they propell collide with something that can transmit sound) the earlier footage definitely seemed to have more sounds than could easily be explained.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

A new Shattered Horizon?

Oh my, dis gonna be goood.

I hope we can go stealth mode as in Shattered Horizon.

 

[Maolagin]

Even if this was supposed to be a hardcore ultra-realistic sim, the effects of recoil are one of the last things I'd criticize. There is nothing unrealistic about treating the thruster pack as an effectively fixed point for bracing one's self against recoil,

Oh, agreed, there's enough ways to tackle that problem that it doesn't have to be an issue unless the game developers want it to be. Throw in some thruster firing animations and ignore the issue, or make it a gameplay element, either way is probably fine in the end.

If these are 10-15 minute matches and everyone is buzzing around changing delta-v by ~15m/s three hundred times a fight, I'm going to wonder where all this fuel is coming from.

Indeed, it's long been a source of amusement that KSP EVAs give you hundreds of m/s dV to play with. Very convenient for not getting stranded away from your ship, but wildly unrealistic that a MMU can make orbit from the smaller bodies.

unless your opponents were firing platinum or palladium bullets

I would assume that, if your adversaries are all flying around with tanks of azides on their backs, catalyst-coated bullets would indeed be standard kit. Unless the objective was specifically to kill the opposition without causing too much damage to the assets. Which I suppose it must notionally be, since causing total failure of near-future space vehicles is depressingly easy without resorting to close-range combat.

Similarly to the recoil issue, propellant choice issues can reasonably be handwaved for game purposes. But if one was aiming for hard sci-fi realism, there are definitely some thorny trade-offs to work through.

 

[Morbad]

thruster firing animations

Looks like what they may have done at ~1:35 in the OP's video. It's a pretty shore segment so it's hard to miss, but the thruster pulses may even be timed with the shots fired.

I would assume that, if your adversaries are all flying around with tanks of azides on their backs, catalyst-coated bullets would indeed be standard kit. Unless the objective was specifically to kill the opposition without causing too much damage to the assets. Which I suppose it must notionally be, since causing total failure of near-future space vehicles is depressingly easy without resorting to close-range combat.

I don't find it implausible that the MMU can be made durable enough that the person operating it is a more viable target. People are pretty fragile too, especially in environments where they need a pressure suit to stay alive.

 

[Chris Simon]

Wondering how can one make recoil-less projectile weapons that can actually have an impact - pun intended

Could be that recoil has to be countered by the player using the suit thrusters, in fact that could be interesting mechanic.

Yeah I had the same idea when watching the vid, most likely suit smart thrusters countering the recoil.

I highly recommend watching Scott Manley's video on this very topic from a couple years ago.

 

[Northpin]

I highly recommend watching Scott Manley's video on this very topic from a couple years ago.

Yep, Morbad liked it on first page.

 

[Northpin]

watched some more (old) footage... it should be called Floppy Legs not Shattered Horizon

but the new trailer for Boundary looks nice.

 

[Chris Simon]

Yep, Morbad liked it on first page.

LOL
I totally missed that post.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Oh, agreed, there's enough ways to tackle that problem that it doesn't have to be an issue unless the game developers want it to be. Throw in some thruster firing animations and ignore the issue, or make it a gameplay element, either way is probably fine in the end.

Indeed, it's long been a source of amusement that KSP EVAs give you hundreds of m/s dV to play with. Very convenient for not getting stranded away from your ship, but wildly unrealistic that a MMU can make orbit from the smaller bodies.


I would assume that, if your adversaries are all flying around with tanks of azides on their backs, catalyst-coated bullets would indeed be standard kit. Unless the objective was specifically to kill the opposition without causing too much damage to the assets. Which I suppose it must notionally be, since causing total failure of near-future space vehicles is depressingly easy without resorting to close-range combat.

Similarly to the recoil issue, propellant choice issues can reasonably be handwaved for game purposes. But if one was aiming for hard sci-fi realism, there are definitely some thorny trade-offs to work through.

True story: Ran outa fuel in high orbit over Kerbin during de-orbit burn. Took out a Kerbal and EVA'd him pushing retrograde until PA entered atmosphere. Took a while and a magic recharge but saved the day. I dont mind cheese when you still need a bit of skill to work with it.

 

[Maolagin]

True story: Ran outa fuel in high orbit over Kerbin during de-orbit burn. Took out a Kerbal and EVA'd him pushing retrograde until PA entered atmosphere. Took a while and a magic recharge but saved the day. I dont mind cheese when you still need a bit of skill to work with it.

Lol, I have done exactly that as well. Also the reverse - ran out of fuel while still barely suborbital taking off from the Mun. EVAing Kerbal was able to push the capsule the last few dozen m/s to get the periapsis high enough to safely await a rescue mission.

 

[Jukelo]

I very much enjoyed Shattered Horizon while it lasted, this looks interesting.