I always fit D-Rated sensors, is there a reason not to?

[CMDR X]

I did some A-class sensor + gimbal testing on a bunch of my ships a few months back. Just to peruse these higher accuracy claims.
What I noticed, apart from the obvious longer range, was that the A sensors were much "snappier" and seemed to acquire
the gimbal target a lot faster. Not better or less jittery just faster. Once on target they were the same as D's.

However, they were much more rigid as the target flew out of the sensor angle. The pips would bounce back and forth abruptly from center to target
as I turned to follow it. I found this to be way too jumpy for my taste. The D rated ones were much smoother in transition and felt more "padded", for lack of a better word.

This behavior seemed to be more pronounced the bigger my ship was. A-grade made no difference with chaff.

Just thought I would share my findings.

Anyone else notice this?

X

 

[Mars Starcruiser]

I did some A-class sensor + gimbal testing on a bunch of my ships a few months back. Just to peruse these higher accuracy claims.
What I noticed, apart from the obvious longer range, was that the A sensors were much "snappier" and seemed to acquire
the gimbal target a lot faster. Not better or less jittery just faster. Once on target they were the same as D's.

However, they were much more rigid as the target flew out of the sensor angle. The pips would bounce back and forth abruptly from center to target
as I turned to follow it. I found this to be way too jumpy for my taste. The D rated ones were much smoother in transition and felt more "padded", for lack of a better word.

This behavior seemed to be more pronounced the bigger my ship was. A-grade made no difference with chaff.

Just thought I would share my findings.

Anyone else notice this?

X

This is kind of a side note, but does have somewhat to do with tracking. Was testing out LR thermal vent beams and although I thought my hit rate was decent, with targets out around 4-4.5kish, I could see the the heat spikes when they miss. Threw on an LR emissive pulse and yes, it did added enough heat to buffer the cooling aspect slightly but didn’t have spikes until part way to 5.5-6k. Left my emissive on there since instead of extra thermal vent because cooling was slower but more concistant at longer ranges.

Tried similar test between A’s vs LR D’s as you but unfortunately was not able to notice much difference. Might try something that tracks slower like a huge cannon next time.

 

[Underhook]

The only advantage to longer range that I can think of is for mining. Good to see those pirates nice and early.

 

[777Driver]

A rated long-range on all my PvP, PvE ships. No reason not to except on my explorer and racing builds. Having LR sensors has saved my bacon in open on quite a few occasions over the years.

Edit - Was just thinking it would be handy if the SLF's could provide sensor telemetry back to the mother ship, would save some mass on those heavy ships.

 

[babelfisch]

Neither is understanding that wifi signals and thermal imaging aren't comparable, or that ED Sensors make no sense, but hey, you do you.

Nothing makes sense with imaginary ships shooting lasers in space. Maybe our sensors are responsible for more than spotting enemy ships? They also register at which point your shields or hull got hit or your position on the landing pad and proximity of other objects. So it's just logical that a bigger ship needs bigger sensors. Do they need to be that big though? That's a nonsensical question because our sensors are already completely made up to begin with!
Maybe our sensors are also responsible for spotting ships in SC. Maybe a FSD on a big ships operates on higher levels than the FSD on a small ship. Maybe that disturbs smaller sensors so they need bigger stuff. Who knows in a world of imaginary things?

PS
The sensors probably also keep track of our hull and module health.

 

[Scoob]

Didn't really expect this topic to generate so much interest. I actually used to A-Rate EVERYTHING on my ships, including Sensors and Life Support - the latter being quite useful in the early-days where getting your canopy taken out was the usual way combat ended lol. That was pre-engineering, so ships were far far squishier.

I get the "lore" aspect where a larger ships Sensor isn't just a bunch of electronics fitted into a single "room" but a whole suite of sensors fitted to numerous compartments all over the ship, adding to the weight. That's fine. I also get that its a game design thing to have sensors be so very very range-limited, all things considered. I just wish there was more than pure detection range involved here.

Some time back, must be a couple of years ago, I was experimenting with Long Range Pulse Laser turrets on my Cutter. They could deal full damage at 5km+ which was great in theory. In practise though they just missed, all the time. Better sensors should be something that helps in such situations. I.e. you have an up-close brawler ship build, sensors are less important. However, if you have a long-range "sniper" type build, then A-Rated would be near essential.

I feel that there are many subtle, and perhaps not so subtle, effects that the various sensor grades could have on the game, but they were just kept very very simplistic. I might play with some A-Rated Sensors again, to see if I can pick up on any of the differences in turret response mentioned earlier in the thread - I do notice that often my turret lag behind the target, shooting where it was half a second earlier, but I assumed that was simply the turret tracking speed not sensor related.

Scoob.

 

[Stealthie]

I always thought it'd be a good idea to have more "side-grades" related to things like sensors, either in terms of classes or engineering mod's.

Be nice if we could have, say, sensors that targeted every ship in a wing at the same time or highlighted ships that had fired at us or simply allowed us to manually target up to, say, 4 ships at the same time so our turrets would fire on any of them.

Regarding modules, PDist's have been the particular bane of my ED "career".
I always used to fit the biggest possible A-rated PDist just cos they were cheap(ish).
Then I realised how much some of them weigh and so I started to fit under-sized PDist's.
Then I started to pay attention to how much power specific systems actually need and make the effort to compare A & D rated PDist's (and the result of modding them) and ended-up replacing a bunch of them again.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I guess the question begging to be asked here is:

What else do you think sensors SHOULD be doing to justify their size and mass? I’m admittedly hard pressed to think of anything more they should be doing. But one of the experts here should be able to answer this.

 

[babelfisch]

I guess the question begging to be asked here is:

What else do you think sensors SHOULD be doing to justify their size and mass? I’m admittedly hard pressed to think of anything more they should be doing. But one of the experts here should be able to answer this.

I mentioned a few things they already ARE doing above...

 

[CMDR X]

I might play with some A-Rated Sensors again, to see if I can pick up on any of the differences in turret response mentioned earlier in the thread - I do notice that often my turret lag behind the target, shooting where it was half a second earlier, but I assumed that was simply the turret tracking speed not sensor related.

Scoob.

Scoob, I never tried A's with turrets but you mentioning them being laggy (slow?), my guess would be that you might benefit from the snappiness of A sensors.
It sure made my gimbals whizz around like crazy.

I would be interested in hearing the results of your testing . Drop me a PM.

o7

X

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I mentioned a few things they already ARE doing above...

Yes, but where are the Should Be Doing that I keep hearing folks going on about?

 

[Scoob]

Scoob, I never tried A's with turrets but you mentioning them being laggy (slow?), my guess would be that you might benefit from the snappiness of A sensors.
It sure made my gimbals whizz around like crazy.

I would be interested in hearing the results of your testing . Drop me a PM.

o7

X

I'll swap my Engineered (Lightened) Class D Sensors in my turret-heavy Anaconda for a vanilla A-Class - if the station has them - and report my findings. I hope to get in-game later this evening - likely in 4-5 hrs or so.

Scoob.

 

[babelfisch]

Yes, but where are the Should Be Doing that I keep hearing folks going on about?

I guess some people say they should increase range. But that isn't inline with Frontiers intended gameplay or engine limitations or both...

Others say they should stay as they are but reduce weight which would result in an arbitrary value.

Currently their are two possible explanations for the weight:
a) Frontier just picked a random number
b) Frontier sees the sensor module as more than just the radar (damage, module health, integrity etc.)

Personally I don't see how picking another random number would fix an issue that doesn't exist...
Let's assume they would reduce sensor weight, it's very likely that the difference would just be added to hull mass...

 

[60mm]

Nothing makes sense with imaginary ships shooting lasers in space.

I am well aware, I was poking fun at IndigoWyrd's trying to explain at length and make sense of ED sensors when that itself is a lost cause. I find ED's sensors funny, but don't care.

 

[House0fDerp]

I mean a Diesel engine built for a semi truck wouldn't be able to fit inside a Mini Cooper. The Engine for the Mini wouldn't produce enough Energy:Torque to move the semi. Even if you could fit the diesel engine into the mini it would be too heavy. Even with ALL the necessary modifications, it's not practical

Sure, the engine wouldn't fit but we're talking about the CB radio, not the engine.

 

[Stealthie]

I guess some people say they should increase range. But that isn't inline with Frontiers intended gameplay or engine limitations or both...

Others say they should stay as they are but reduce weight which would result in an arbitrary value.

Currently their are two possible explanations for the weight:
a) Frontier just picked a random number
b) Frontier sees the sensor module as more than just the radar (damage, module health, integrity etc.)

Personally I don't see how picking another random number would fix an issue that doesn't exist...
Let's assume they would reduce sensor weight, it's very likely that the difference would just be added to hull mass...

I don't think the weights are random.

They're designed to provide similar penalties/benefits to ships of different sizes as a result of using comparable sensors/mod's.
If the weight of sensors was more "realistic", different sensors/mod's would have a proportionally bigger effect on smaller ships than it'd have on big ships.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

I don't think the weights are random.

They're designed to provide similar penalties/benefits to ships of different sizes as a result of using comparable sensors/mod's.
If the weight of sensors was more "realistic", different sensors/mod's would have a proportionally bigger effect on smaller ships than it'd have on big ships.

The way I head-canonn a justification for the mass of sensors is that the sensor suite also includes internal sensor network for the ship, I do however think that sensors / scanners / limpet controllers etc could do with a major rework, its been suggested numerous times, and I personally subscribe to the idea of ships getting an "electronics rack" which could be filled with modules such as limpet controllers, kill warrant scanners, different types of sensors*. The different types of sensors would be in addition to the current setup of infrared signature based resolution, and each would have its own strengths and weaknesses, for example an electromagnetic emmissions detector wouldnt be as scrambled by chaff and flares, but would be less precise than say an optical analysis (image recognition) based setup. Similarly the optical based setup would be useless in icerings/lagrange clouds/etc and if an enemy "hid" behind an asteroid the sensors would be oblivious to them, hell even if they were to outfit a black friday skin, and derp along with fa off leaving no contrails, there would be minimal optical signature to target. Conversely so, if an enemy popped chaff while fighting against an optical sensor equipped ship they would actually be intensifying their signature not deminishing it. A heatsink would do nothing against an optical sensor, but would ghost a ship against infrared ones, and shielded powerplants, low power builds would be very hard for an EM emmissions detection array to target, etc.

I also feel that there should be more of a difference in range of detection, increasing exponentially with class/mass of sensor suite fitted. Similarly I also tink ships ought to be able to be fitted with undersized sensors, giving big ships the option of being AWAC's in combat, or going for weight saving for better jump range/ maneuverability.

 

[fu9ar]

This isn't rocket science.

This is rocket science.

Also the bigger FSD and engines and other systems on the bigger ships produce more interference and so require a larger sensor system to overcome that interference.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Also the bigger FSD and engines and other systems on the bigger ships produce more interference and so require a larger sensor system to overcome that interference.

I actually like that logic, however even factoring in shielding, I suspect that the mass/power consumption vs range and resolution of sensors in game is still out of whack for big ships.

 

[Powderpanic]

Zero reasons to get anything above D unless you are wanting to long range Torp.

Powderpanic
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