Reduce the grind

[JustJon]

"Take say... any arena shooter ever made.

Your bar to entry to take part in PVP is buying the game. Thats it."

The bar to entry for PVP in Elite is buying the game.

Getting the right kit and some skills takes time.

Just like an other online shooter where you unless you spend stupid amounts of hours grinding to level up your player and get better stuffs you just stay as a bullet sponge.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

The thing i find most funny about this comment is how it completely ignores one fact.

"In other words, they dont have enough fun now, and they invest their time playing hoping it pays off in the future. And that absolute is a completely insane way to spend your free time."

Especially this bit. If you play ED you quickly realise that the grind for mats is essentially a barrier to a lot of the more fun elements of the game. Foir example PvP. The fact Skippy has forgotton this is quite hilarious. The way he comments like grind to access certain parts of teh game make sit seem he's not engaged in certain parts of teh game. Of course i could be wrong. Which means he's ignoring those parts purposely to make a silly point of argument.

I ended up uninstalling ED after 2k+ hours precisely because the so calle dnon existant grind barring entry to fun elements is very off putting.

Take say... any arena shooter ever made.

Your bar to entry to take part in PVP is buying the game. Thats it.

In Elite your talking hours and hours just to unlcok engineers to START building a PvP ship. Theres no jumping in.
This would be fine if you didn't have to go through this monumental process per module for every ship inclduing travel time even AFTER organising your pinned blueprints to be as efficient as possible.

So I laugh when folk say there no grind in Elite. They simply arn't playing teh same game. Or simply don't understand teh game they are playing...

Ye and you know the best thing? There was none of that grind before 2.1. Could just happily PvP with your vanilla stuff. Now I can't even enjoy the bloody environment anymore because they spawn bulletsponges on me.
Engineers was the wettest fart of the whole ED project.

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

Nah. You're not supposed to do it all at once. It is enjoyable in small doses. Drop by a few USS while running missions, bring a tourist around to see some fumaroles and instead of manically rushing through life, land and take the SRV out to gather some materials for a little while, always scoop your kills.

When you want a specific amount of g4 raw, say ten for that upgrade, you drive around shoot a load of rocks for two hours and have 6. So that's two rocks you've gotta find with no clear idea how long it's gona be.
That's over two hours of doing something i find tedious for something that will take seconds to implement, just to see if I like x mod on y ship.
Or Guardian stuff pattern epsilon data.
Go round all the guardian sites scan all the data doodads, fill up on pattern gamma and no epsilon data.
The game get's in it's own way and gets in 'your' way as well.
If a person is constantly and needlessly thwarted without reason people just disengage.
The 'there is no grind' brigade don't feel thwarted for whatever reason (I assume they're off exploring so have done all the engineering they need/want or somesuch, either way are no longer engaging with this aspect of the game).
The folks who want to use synth for Thargs, PVE, PVP, or Engineer, or acquire tech and regularly do those things are back at the grind stone pretty quick.
Wanting to participate in those aspects of the game should not be fenced off behind an over long easter egg hunt.
If those elements were a fun thing to do IN AND OF THEMSELVES I doubt any/many would notice.
People still want to earn stuff in the game, nobody is expecting a g5 PvP ship within 6 minutes of installing the game or any such overblown silliness, people just don't want to be needlessly thwarted for no good reason.

 

[Old Duck]

Take say... any arena shooter ever made.

Your bar to entry to take part in PVP is buying the game. Thats it.

In Elite your talking hours and hours just to unlcok engineers to START building a PvP ship. Theres no jumping in.

Elite is not an arena shooter (unless you are playing CQC which nullifies your complaint), it's an MMO. I've yet to play an MMO where I can jump directly into PvP after buying the game and expect to do well. Go ahead, try it in ESO or DCUO!

Regarding grind, I'd argue that there is less grind in ED than ESO, though I think the grind in ESO is more fun and makes a lot more sense (mining iron as a blacksmith vs. as a starship captain).

 

[MickyG1982]

I have to agree about the grind in NMS.

I did enjoy it but then find you spend huge amounts of time just trying to find stuff which you need to make other stuff which eventually you make into a warp core to jump 1 system.

Also it seemed difficult to get any decent amount of money but not sure if that has changed.

So NMS seems to be about - build a base - recruit some people - do some missions which involve finding stuff to mine - so they can complete a thing whilst you go find some other stuff for other people.

Also ooh look a big freighter - ohh it's now asking for help as someone is trying to shoot it - did ED do that first or was it NMS?

Oh getting money is easy, dig a hole underneath some whispering eggs at an abandoned building, open them up from that hole and the monstrosities pretty much can't get you, great for early(ish) cash. Also, digging up anchent bones can be lucrative.

 

[oblivionmanman 2476]

He absolutely is not, at best you dont understand what he is saying. Investing time means you do something now in the hopes of a future payoff. That is not pedantry, that is how many people genuinely play. That is why people want to know the future of a game; many literally say they will stop playing if they dont like the future plans. In other words, they dont have enough fun now, and they invest their time playing hoping it pays off in the future. And that absolute is a completely insane way to spend your free time. Playing a game should be fun now. There absolutely should be instant gratification. Having people have fun is the sole reason for entertainment products to exist in the first place.

If you 'invest time' in the hopes you may one day have fun with a computer game, you should stop right now. The very concept of 'grinding' exists solely because people voluntarily 'invest' their free time because they somehow cannot imagine they could do something that is fun now and rather spend their time doing something they readily admit is not fun at all.

The very concept of 'investing time' is a rotten festering wound in contemporary gaming culture, and rather than it 'getting in the way of discussion' it should be discussed openly far more often.

i agree with you the game is vast open and their is no such thing as a free meal earn youre way learn , my 3rd play through (new pc new cmdr) keep this game open my name is CMDR BRADING still playing after 3 years 07

 

[fu9ar]

When you want a specific amount of g4 raw, say ten for that upgrade.

I don't believe that I am entitled to everything I want on a random whim "to try it out" and if I don't have enough to get what I want, I make do with something else until I have enough. I don't fixate on petty goals. I spent my whole time coming up running missions and scooping USS, so I have an abundance of materials. There are a few that I am running low on for popular G4 and G5 mods, but none of those are necessary.

What upgrade are you talking about that needs 10 G4 materials? You're being vague. I suspect because you know that your argument lacks substance

 

[fu9ar]

Your bar to entry to take part in PVP is buying the game. Thats it.

In Elite your talking hours and hours just to unlcok engineers to START building a PvP ship. Theres no jumping in.
This would be fine if you didn't have to go through this monumental process per module for every ship inclduing travel time even AFTER organising your pinned blueprints to be as efficient as possible.

So I laugh when folk say there no grind in Elite. They simply arn't playing teh same game. Or simply don't understand teh game they are playing...

Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand "teh" game.

Nothing is stopping you from engaging in PvP in that loaner sidewinder.

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

I don't believe that I am entitled to everything I want on a random whim "to try it out" and if I don't have enough to get what I want, I make do with something else until I have enough. I don't fixate on petty goals. I spent my whole time coming up running missions and scooping USS, so I have an abundance of materials. There are a few that I am running low on for popular G4 and G5 mods, but none of those are necessary.

What upgrade are you talking about that needs 10 G4 materials? You're being vague. I suspect because you know that your argument lacks substance

Nobody is saying they are entitled to anything.
You're making a lot of assumptions about what people are saying without engaging with the body of what is actually being said. Like you assuming the body of the text by scanning a few words.
It would seem you are coming into this discussion on the premise that you are already correct in your view and that no other view is possible.

The whole point being that if I want to set that "petty" goal (not the whole focus of the game but a personal focus right now) for myself in a game for one thing that should be achievable without being thwarted needlessly.
These aspects of the game don't so much flow, as stop and start like a badly buffering video.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Hey Frontier, NMS reduced the grind and all players are happy. Please take note.

What grind is that? Is that the one you subject yourself to.

 

[tomimt]

I really have the same problem with both, Elite and Star Citizen and that is, that they both have gameplay that feels more like work rather than fun. That's why I've pretty much stopped playing E, while I do keep an eye on things. Star Citizen is gearing out to be even more of a mundane work simulator where you do exciting stuff like wait for a train to arrive at the station so you go to the hangar and fly to another planet to drop off a parcel.

I've said it a couple of times, but FD should utilize their game lore better and one option for it would be to do a separate game mode, where they could focus on narrative-driven episodes. They could use this mode to bring in more interest towards the game by allowing people to play more structured manner in a smaller area than what the open world it. This they could also use as a method to explore different professions in the game in a bit more interesting manner than by just having tutorials. People could even play with different ships, some manned, some not.

 

[Zaphod Hawke]

After something like 4k hours in Elite, I wouldn't mind paying for engineering packs. I'd probably still buy something like that regularly if it was available.

 

[House0fDerp]

What grind is that? Is that the one you subject yourself to.

No, it's the one that comes from the static requirements from certain elements of the game which if they vary at all tend to do so in the form of RNG absorbing more time and effort than necessary.

 

[fu9ar]

Nobody is saying they are entitled to anything.
You're making a lot of assumptions about what people are saying without engaging with the body of what is actually being said. Like you assuming the body of the text by scanning a few words.
It would seem you are coming into this discussion on the premise that you are already correct in your view and that no other view is possible.

The whole point being that if I want to set that "petty" goal (not the whole focus of the game but a personal focus right now) for myself in a game for one thing that should be achievable without being thwarted needlessly.
These aspects of the game don't so much flow, as stop and start like a badly buffering video.

You are speaking in vague metaphors and using a lot of words to say nothing of any substance.

 

[Havvk]

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

No, it's the one that comes from the static requirements from certain elements of the game which if they vary at all tend to do so in the form of RNG absorbing more time and effort than necessary.

Requirements for something that is optional.

 

[House0fDerp]

Requirements for something that is optional.

Which means nothing as it doesn't change the requirements.

The ability to ignore an element of the game doesn't make that element better. If that's the typical defense of it, then maybe it really is bad.

 

[CMDR Jowley]

Requirements for something that is optional.

I bet your spirit animal is a mule.

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

You are speaking in vague metaphors and using a lot of words to say nothing of any substance.

Nothing I have said is difficult to understand by anyone willing to look beyond their own reflex responses.

 

[Brrokk]

What grind is that? Is that the one you subject yourself to.

This, in spades. I just couldn't ever complain about grind in a leisure activity. It would seem weird to say that a game was making me do stuff I didn't want to do. I'd feel embarrassed, as if I was confessing to an addiction which I should control.