Reduce the grind

[Projectmodule]

Ok


LOL at taking things out of context when we're on a thread entitled "Reduce the Grind".
The point being that you don't need to grind to be in a position to engineer at least a small amount... To G2 or G3... and in doing so - yeah, you CAN do combat zones, just as I pointed out

Exactly this! There's no grind related to low tier materials. You just play the game and you will find many situations to gather mats. End of story. If someone thinks otherwise then something is wrong with the player. Not the game.

 

[Rampant]

Here's a Fleet Carrier.
Git grinding.

Honestly, I don't know where the game is now with:

'Grinding'.
Getting credits.
PvP combat.
Game progression.

It all seems a bit of a jumble.

I don't understand what you mean by "game progression".
This sandbox is non-linear and also does not have a progressive story line or main story structure.

This is one of the best features of the game, imho...
The player sets their own "progression metrics" within the confines of the mechanics available in game.

One of my own metrics is that (amongst a great host if other exploration related gameplay) I've now tagged over 50 Earth Like Worlds, many hundreds of Water Worlds and recently 8 Wolf Rayets... even when it appeared to a seasoned explorer that very few WRs were left undiscovered. But ingenuity finds a way

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Exactly this! There's no grind related to low tier materials. You just play the game and you will find many situations to gather mats. End of story. If someone thinks otherwise then something is wrong with the player. Not the game.

Ok once again. Start a new save and engineer a ship to a level of competence in a combat zone. Prove there's no grind. You can even live stream it if you like?

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Can something be preposterous and also demonstrably true? Maybe, in this forum at least.

Yes. It's like suggesting i could dig a tunnel from my house to London. It's true, i technically could do it. But it's quite obviously preposterous. Contrived example but it illustrates the point - suggesting there is no grind...it just takes years to do is clearly silly and only reinforces the view it's designed to refute.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

My dear friend.

"Don't be ridiculous. Of course you can."

I didnt say that in any post. First you answered to my post in which I claimed that you dont need FULLY engineered ship to do CZ and bounty hunting. You answered that you need engineering when I was talking about fifth tier of engineering or even fourth. So you started discussion without reading properly my post. Then you talked with different person and you are accusing me wrongly for something I didnt say Not cool.

If you agree that Tier 1-3 engineering is pretty straightforward and doesnt require grind then we are on the same page.

I do not agree. It takes hours and hours of boring grind just to unlock the engineers. So no, we are not on the same page.

 

[Garbarrage]

You are asking me to clear my save with 20~ ships, record videos and post pictures with timestaps just to prove some random guy from internet how to find shield emmiters?

Yes. There was no grind involved in obtaining any of your 20ish ships, none of which you need to play the game apparently, so clearing your save to prove your ridiculous point shouldn't really be that big a deal.

I dont care if you believe me

That's lucky, because I don't.

The trouble with this debate is that both sides have got some things right.

The trouble with this debate is that some people believe that it's a debate. There is no debate. The idea of what constitutes grind is clearly a subjective opinion. However, any time someone posts a thread giving their opinion that there's too much grind in this game (or any other negative criticism for that matter) there is usually a cohort of players (or several cohorts across the various issues. Im not sure, I don't tend to post or read very consistently on this forum) eager to convince that person that their opinion is wrong.

 

[Rampant]

Ok once again. Start a new save and engineer a ship to a level of competence in a combat zone. Prove there's no grind. You can even live stream it if you like?

That depends on whether you want to instantly be able to go into a CZ and be dominant in the first few hours of play...

That's a poor expectation, don't you think?
Perhaps you'd like to start a new save with an A rated Krait and 500 Million in Credits?

There are so, so many complimentary elements to the game that if you already know what you're doing with a new save, that individual actions can aid with several progressions at the same time.

If it were me tooling around with a new save - just to enjoy the game, that is - rather than have one single endeavour in mind, I know for a fact that my materials storage would be well stocked by the time I got into a Python or Krait and had enough credits to start A rating it.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

That depends on whether you want to instantly be able to go into a CZ and be dominant in the first few hours of play...

That's a poor expectation, don't you think?
Perhaps you'd like to start a new save with an A rated Krait and 500 Million in Credits?

There are so, so many complimentary elements to the game that if you already know what you're doing with a new save, that individual actions can aid with several progressions at the same time.

If it were me tooling around with a new save - just to enjoy the game, that is - rather than have one single endeavour in mind, I know for a fact that my materials storage would be well stocked by the time I got into a Python or Krait and had enough credits to start A rating it.

Are you going to prove how short and easy it is or aren't you? Go on. Tell us when the stream is so we can watch.

 

[lostagain]

I've been told the grind is only in my mind.
So I just lost it. Easy fix.

 

[AgentGB]

I've read, that without the grind there is no game play.

 

[Rampant]

Are you going to prove how short and easy it is or aren't you? Go on. Tell us when the stream is so we can watch.

Hahahaha.
Nope.

It's a fairly long road.
But an enjoyable one.
I'm absolutely fine with that. In fact, it has been made easier over the years. Which is cause for sadness in my view.

Why try to shortcut it?
Just enjoy the ride for what it is. A game.

 

[Projectmodule]

Ok once again. Start a new save and engineer a ship to a level of competence in a combat zone. Prove there's no grind. You can even live stream it if you like?

To be honest I expected that you will show some class and apologise after making a mistake when you responded to my comment about grinding materials and misinterpreting my post. Im disappointed. Instead you are repeating with another CMDR. Garbarrage that I should clear my save. Well my friend Its not really that simple solution to prove that low level mats are pretty easy to obtain. For example I dont want to mine ores in Elite anymore. It was fun experience when it lasted but after mining thousands of opals Im not looking forward to do it again. Thats one of the many reasons like exploration data, reputation with minor factions that I would like to keep with my current save. I dont want to leave bubble too for 5k ly. I did it already and had fun. I went to Sag A and Colonia for example but right now Im not interested in anything else just to prove that someone is wrong on internet Besides I have no idea how to stream games and Im not sure if my rig can handle it.

Maybe I will surprise you with my last words regarding grind in Elite Dangerous. If you feel that you are right and dont believe in what I wrote then thats completely fine. I expressed my opinion about it and even tried to explain you step by step how to easily get low level mats but if you think its not that easy and grindy then thats ok. I hope you still enjoy Elite despite of struggling with engineering.

 

[Garbarrage]

I hope you still enjoy Elite despite of struggling with engineering

Who said anything about struggling? The issue is not difficulty. The issue is tedium. If the process was so enjoyable, why are you not so keen to repeat it? Wouldn't it be a much better game if progress was actually enjoyable enough that you wouldn't mind repeating it?

 

[Projectmodule]

Who said anything about struggling? The issue is not difficulty. The issue is tedium. If the process was so enjoyable, why are you not so keen to repeat it? Wouldn't it be a much better game if progress was actually enjoyable enough that you wouldn't mind repeating it?

All right let me fix this. I hope you still enjoy Elite despite of not enjoying engineering.

 

[WinterKing2112]

"Without an engineered ship you cannot do combat zones"
"Don't be ridiculous. Of course you can."

It's academic anyway. We're all in agreement engineering is a pre-requisite to take part in much of this game's content, which is the entire point. You also conceded you weren't considering the full engineering process when you claimed it took an hour. There's no argument here.

There you go saying that everyone agrees with you, again! You keep doing that for some reason...! Anyhoo, I played ED for 6 months without engineering. Loved it. Then I bought Horizons*, did some engineering, loving it even more. Yeah, the game is better with engineering, but you don't NEED it to enjoy ED.
* So I could land on planets to find out what those geological signals were that I was picking up while scanning planets. Then I got into engineering, but it was curiosity about what those geological signal thingies were that caused me to buy Horizons primarily.

 

[WinterKing2112]

Who said anything about struggling? The issue is not difficulty. The issue is tedium. If the process was so enjoyable, why are you not so keen to repeat it? Wouldn't it be a much better game if progress was actually enjoyable enough that you wouldn't mind repeating it?

I have played ED for 9 months now. Loved most of those 9 months. Not sure I'd want to delete everything and start again tho, especially just 'cos some random guy in a game forum told me I should.....

 

[WinterKing2112]

Can something be preposterous and also demonstrably true? Maybe, in this forum at least.

Because all of this is 100% subjective then both sides are right. Or wrong....!

 

[Garbarrage]

I have played ED for 9 months now. Loved most of those 9 months. Not sure I'd want to delete everything and start again tho, especially just 'cos some random guy in a game forum told me I should.....

I'm not telling you that you should. I'm saying, if it wasn't a grind in any way to get to where you are, then it shouldn't be a big deal. I'd do it in a heartbeat were this the case.

It isn't though. Everything in this game post-Engineers was a pain in the butt, imo. I believe that it stemmed from a game design philosophy. The aim of which was to slow progression down through repetitive game loops and using this as a tool to keep people playing.

It had the opposite effect on me. I played for a short while after Engineers, then pretty much stopped completely. I come back for a day or two about every 6 months on average to see if they've changed their design policy or to see if there's an update which doesn't have stupid levels of grind attached.

 

[Droid8Apple]

Reduce the grind?
Without wanting to sound like some old f*rt you should have been here at the beginning. 1000cr for a mission was good.....
I failed....

LoL right? I remember being a very good combat pilot (before Powerplay came out), crushing RES sites (there wasn't tiers then) and being pretty hardcore with 4 mil an hour in my A-rated (no engineering yet) Anaconda (no Cutter or Corvette yet). It was rare seeing Anacondas back then and even more rare seeing an Elite one. Now they might as well start players in Jameson because it takes about 5 minutes to get Trade Elite.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not salty I'm very glad that people don't have to deal with what we did; but if they could for one day they'd never say the word "grind" in current context again.

 

[WinterKing2112]

I'm not telling you that you should. I'm saying, if it wasn't a grind in any way to get to where you are, then it shouldn't be a big deal. I'd do it in a heartbeat were this the case.

It isn't though. Everything in this game post-Engineers was a pain in the butt, imo. I believe that it stemmed from a game design philosophy. The aim of which was to slow progression down through repetitive game loops and using this as a tool to keep people playing.

It had the opposite effect on me. I played for a short while after Engineers, then pretty much stopped completely. I come back for a day or two about every 6 months on average to see if they've changed their design policy or to see if there's an update which doesn't have stupid levels of grind attached.

Yeah well I love it, you hate it. It's totally subjective. What can u do?