Reduce the grind

[-VR- Max Factor]

Just answering the last paragraoh since it's only the relevant one then!

You say I have the choice then just dictate me to change my play style at the same time... Doesn't seem like a choice to me...! Am I entitled to play the same way... As you ? Which seems to be the way to not feel that grind! Maybe I could like it! I agree! But it still no choice

I didn't dictate anything to you. I just gave you the other choices that are available, the choice is yours if you want to take them up. Not too sure how that is dictating to you. People seem to have a funny idea what thay word means.

Do we really have the choice of our personal preferences? I like the blue color... Why? I don't know!! Can I change to red? Well... If you know how to do that, I would be happy!

My personal choice is to play the game in a way that I find fun and that means not grinding for the next bigger and badder object.

Can I change my play style to yours and like it? Well... If you know how to do that I would be happy!

You don't know until you try, but the choice is yours if you want to try or not.

Simulation version of the milky way? Ah yeah... So it's a simulation game because of that!

Never said the game part was a simulation. Its a fantasy, just like any other game set in the far future. Still doesn't make it an "arcade" game.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Can everyone please stop arguing about off-topic? Let's talk about grind in ED and how to improve it. Reference to other games are always welcome as a comparison to improve the current grind state.
Thanks

Improve it? Yes, add more. Make it harder and take longer. We need our grind. It defines who we are.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I really wouldn't know how to improve the grind situation. If you add more variations, I don't think that will help either as people will just do the easiest and fastest way no matter what to get all the mats in one go, and then complain about the grind.

I would love more variations on how to get things as I would likely use them all, but I know others will not.

Easy: Plop the stupid engineered AI in places players can choose or avoid to go. Instead of spawning on rank or in every damn CZ. Preserve gameplay for vanilla gear.

There: fixed without touching ppl's beloved grind. I just wouldnt have to do it and could go at my pace with the stupid powercreep.

 

[Garbarrage]

How about no grind?

Everyone can have everything, no need for a rebuy, everyone can influence the BGS how much they want when they want, same for powerplay?

What is an appropriate level of grind to keep players engaged doing stuff?

Saying "reduce the grind" is easy. Specifying by how much and in what way and giving good reasons as to why this will be good for the game (note, good for the game, not for specific individuals) to FD might get their attention.

The change to mining seems to have been overall well recieved, although personally i think its too much, but there again, i'm just one person.

Collective goals in this game require grind to work. Powerplay/BGS etc. are designed to be unachievable by a single player (excepting of course, the masochists who enjoy flipping systems solo. This wasn't how it was designed though).

It would actually be quite easy to reduce the grind. Just play through the gameplay involving personal goals, behind which you lock content. If you need to repeat a process more than once, either make that process challenging, interesting or engaging to do more than once. Otherwise, don't make players repeat it.

If you insist on making players repeat something, there should be a good reason for it. "Because otherwise they'll get through the content too fast" isn't a good reason.

I played Elite because I wanted to fly a spaceship doing interesting and/or exciting stuff. I enjoyed changing my setup around when I got bored of it. Despite similar mechanics in place pre-engineers, once I'd earned the credits and bought a decent combat/trading/exploration ship, I had the Freedom to participate in all the other aspects of the game any way I chose. If I got bored of my FAS, I could sell it and buy and outfit a fully specced FDL in a few hours, then get back to PP or BGS or whatever, without handicapping myself in a lesser ship. Now, it could take a week or more to do the same thing. Experimenting with builds had become a PITA. I'm a parent of two young kids, with a 9-5 (6am - 7pm really). I do not want to spend the couple of hours I play each evening doing busy work.

 

[Stellar Shepherd]

I’ve been lurking this (and few other unrelated) topic and I wouldn’t agree with Elite making it as easy as NMS. NMS made it easy to a point where playing the game became pointless (imo), not to mention the poor quality of the said game. Elite isn’t suppose to be easy, but that was my issue. Gathering materials is more or less easy, to point of tedium. More options certainly wouldn’t hurt, so player can pick their favorite method, ofc it would require balance for each method to yield more or less the same amount within a given time. The game trailer is couple minutes long and at least half of it shows combat, which in open (unless organized) is fatal without engineers.

What I’d like to see is a group variant of gathering some materials, similar to wing missions, instead of splitting up every time we plan on working on engineering. Logging in and out in order to be most efficient is a desing flaw, imo.

As for traversing around the galaxy, I like the fact that it feels big, I like the fact that in order for me to see something very distant I have to prepare for it and the fact that I haven’t seen many parts of the galaxy because it’s far away.

People should also consider which part of elite is their prefered style. You can favor the gameplay/ship size/game mode (solo/open) type with minimum enigneering requirement and be fine with the current system, that doesn’t mean that everyone else is the same.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Easy: Plop the stupid engineered AI in places players can choose or avoid to go. Instead of spawning on rank or in every damn CZ. Preserve gameplay for vanilla gear.

There: fixed without touching ppl's beloved grind. I just wouldnt have to do it and could go at my pace with the stupid powercreep.

That is not going to stop people from grinding. Also to fight engineered NPCs you only need grade 1-3 upgrades which are easily available without grind.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

That is not going to stop people from grinding. Also to fight engineered NPCs you only need grade 1-3 upgrades which are easily available without grind.

It's not meant to stop grinding. The overall design philosophy of ED rests on grind principles. That can hardly be changed. What they can do tho is keep gameplay accessible.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

If you insist on making players repeat something, there should be a good reason for it. "Because otherwise they'll get through the content too fast" isn't a good reason.

And here is the issue summed up beautifully

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It's not meant to stop grinding. The overall design philosophy of ED rests on grind principles. That can hardly be changed. What they can do tho is keep gameplay accessible.

No it really doesn't. Funny how a number of us don't grind but still manage to engineer our ships, participate in the BGS and even do powerplay. It's a fallacy. You choose how to participate in an activity.

If you decide to do it repeatedly in a row to get what you want quickly (grind) when you don't need to that's all on you. You can still fight in combat zones and Res sites as long as you are careful on what you take on without any engineering.

While doing that you can slowly upgrade your ship and slowly take on more powerful ships. It's not tough, I have done it in my vulture.

Sure I to run a few times, but to me that's part of the fun. For me it's no fun being indestructible and just using NPCs as cannon fodder which is what a fully engineered combat ship is like.

 

[House0fDerp]

It's more accurate to say the game's progression ladder is predicated on repetition, and certain specific parts to repeating certain specific tasks.

The design philosophy is prevalent even when new aspects are introduced ie: Guardian Ruins.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

No it really doesn't. Funny how a number of us don't grind but still manage to engineer our ships, participate in the BGS and even do powerplay. It's a fallacy. You choose how to participate in an activity.

If you decide to do it repeatedly in a row to get what you want quickly (grind) when you don't need to that's all on you. You can still fight in combat zones and Res sites as long as you are careful on what you take on without any engineering.

While doing that you can slowly upgrade your ship and slowly take on more powerful ships. It's not tough, I have done it in my vulture.

Sure I to run a few times, but to me that's part of the fun. For me it's no fun being indestructible and just using NPCs as cannon fodder which is what a fully engineered combat ship is like.

I know what I've played and that was vanilla equipment nerfed next to useless in base game loops. I dont want to run the hamstermill so it's a grind to me.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I know what I've played and that was vanilla equipment nerfed next to useless in base game loops. I dont want to run the hamstermill so it's a grind to me.

There is no hamster wheel for grade 1-3 upgrades.

 

[House0fDerp]

In the time between 2.1 and 3.1 I'd been ignoring engineering completely. Any pickups were truly by chance and "just playing the game" rather than grinding for mats. There were a number of grade 3 upgrades I lacked specific materials for. There were a number of grade 1 and 2s I was low on as well as I'd never done any surface prospecting until I went specifically looking for mats. My very small amount of mining didn't even give me enough trade fodder.

 

[Helgarth]

No it really doesn't. Funny how a number of us don't grind but still manage to engineer our ships, participate in the BGS and even do powerplay. It's a fallacy. You choose how to participate in an activity.

If you decide to do it repeatedly in a row to get what you want quickly (grind) when you don't need to that's all on you. You can still fight in combat zones and Res sites as long as you are careful on what you take on without any engineering.

While doing that you can slowly upgrade your ship and slowly take on more powerful ships. It's not tough, I have done it in my vulture.

Sure I to run a few times, but to me that's part of the fun. For me it's no fun being indestructible and just using NPCs as cannon fodder which is what a fully engineered combat ship is like.

Aaahh yes!!! Exactly! Actually you are right (much repeating yourself tho) that's what we want!!! But for what indeed we want, right now, there is that grind! Because we want it now! Never said that we need to do it now! But I want to enjoy CZ now! I need to grind for that sir since I'm very bad at the game once again, you are right!

Know that we acknowledged that you are right, I guess it's fair to say that it doesn't add anything to our problem since Hat you come up with is not the solution... Because we don't want to butterfly around So yes it's up to us! Still... There is that grind, that you don't feel since you have a different playstyle!

What's the point of repeating it about 10 times?

 

[Brrokk]

Aaahh yes!!! Exactly! Actually you are right (much repeating yourself tho) that's what we want!!! But for what indeed we want, right now, there is that grind! Because we want it now! Never said that we need to do it now! But I want to enjoy CZ now! I need to grind for that sir since I'm very bad at the game once again, you are right!

Know that we acknowledged that you are right, I guess it's fair to say that it doesn't add anything to our problem since Hat you come up with is not the solution... Because we don't want to butterfly around So yes it's up to us! Still... There is that grind, that you don't feel since you have a different playstyle! ☺

What's the point of repeating it about 10 times?

Repetition is a characteristic of this thread.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Aaahh yes!!! Exactly! Actually you are right (much repeating yourself tho) that's what we want!!! But for what indeed we want, right now, there is that grind! Because we want it now! Never said that we need to do it now! But I want to enjoy CZ now! I need to grind for that sir since I'm very bad at the game once again, you are right!

Know that we acknowledged that you are right, I guess it's fair to say that it doesn't add anything to our problem since Hat you come up with is not the solution... Because we don't want to butterfly around So yes it's up to us! Still... There is that grind, that you don't feel since you have a different playstyle! ☺

What's the point of repeating it about 10 times?

You can enjoy combat zones without engineer's. I am not a good pilot, but I still went into combat zones and succeeded without any engineering. Tougher, yes, impossible no.

Also what do you need to do 10 times to make your ship effective against NPCs?

As has been said, you only need grade 1-3 to be effective against NPCs and you don't need to grind to get any of those. Also doing something 10 times isn't grind, if it was then you can call every game ever made a grind and if you do that, expecting ED to be any different is delusional, it's doing it 10 times in a row is what makes it a grind, if you don't like doing it, don't is my advice.

 

[Moriarte]

Coming from someone who got all the ships he wanted, billions in assets and near full mats — I am more or less happy with the state-of-the-grind. There are some glaring issues urgently in need of fixing (high grade emissions), but overall it takes you no longer than 6 months to “grind” to the top of the pyramid, which, imo, is fine in a computer game of this sort. I did enjoy driving around guardian sites and dav’s hope, personally, it wasn’t a grind in the slightest. HGE’s, on the other hand, oh boy... that’s just rage inducing stuff. Because it’s inconsistent.

Little advice for those finding bits of it to grindy, if I may. Find a goal, a narrative. This is a proper game world, it demands that you live in it. What kept me going (on vacation now) is joining the pvp law enforcement squadron and slowly building up my 10 ships for various endeavours. It took months, involving hundreds of fights, lots of wandering around in search of mats and theorycrafting. I wanted to have a cutting-edge ship in every class, so that whatever Frontier throws at me in December, I am ready!

 

[Helgarth]

You can enjoy combat zones without engineer's. I am not a good pilot, but I still went into combat zones and succeeded without any engineering. Tougher, yes, impossible no.

Also what do you need to do 10 times to make your ship effective against NPCs?

As has been said, you only need grade 1-3 to be effective against NPCs and you don't need to grind to get any of those. Also doing something 10 times isn't grind, if it was then you can call every game ever made a grind and if you do that, expecting ED to be any different is delusional, it's doing it 10 times in a row is what makes it a grind, if you don't like doing it, don't is my advice.

I could not... Sadly get good right?

Or maybe, maaaayybbeee, you are underestimating the requirements?

But still!! Get good!!

Meh anyway, you did not get the est of my sentences since I was talking about you repeating the same sayings over and over again trying to solve our problem which seem to be our only , not about the game

If I was talking about the game I would have said like... What... 100 times?

 

[Helgarth]

Coming from someone who got all the ships he wanted, billions in assets and near full mats — I am more or less happy with the state-of-the-grind. There are some glaring issues urgently in need of fixing (high grade emissions), but overall it takes you no longer than 6 months to “grind” to the top of the pyramid, which, imo, is fine in a computer game of this sort. I did enjoy driving around guardian sites and dav’s hope, personally, it wasn’t a grind in the slightest. HGE’s, on the other hand, oh boy... that’s just rage inducing stuff. Because it’s inconsistent.

Little advice for those finding bits of it to grindy, if I may. Find a goal, a narrative. This is a proper game world, it demands that you live in it. What kept me going (on vacation now) is joining the pvp law enforcement squadron and slowly building up my 10 ships for various endeavours. It took months, involving hundreds of fights, lots of wandering around in search of mats and theorycrafting. I wanted to have a cutting-edge ship in every class, so that whatever Frontier throws at me in December, I am ready!

I'll speak for me here since very body won't feel the same

To me, the grind is not about time consuming activities, it's about having those activities being unpleasant or boring of some sort by repetition and little engagement... But still feeling the need of it because... Well because the game is quite much wrapped around it (for me: travel, engineering for example)

I would be so happy to stay on this game for so long but actually not having to do those repetitions over again and again regarding their current state! Wouldn't mind that much of they were more fun on the other end...

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

There is no hamster wheel for grade 1-3 upgrades.

Having to do engineer to play the base gameplay loops is pretty much hamsterwheeling for me.