"gunner position"/"Turret mode" style solo ship gameplay with turreted weapons equipped.

Themurloc

Themurloc
So I recently discovered the SRV's Turret mode, and also dabbled in multi crew gameplay for the first time, where I also found the neat 3rd person functionality of the gunner position a fun addition, but a tad pointless as the helm can control all the weapons anyways. I had an idea of repurposing that camera style for some third person gameplay when turreted weapons are installed.

As much as I like elite dangerous, I've always been partial to third person games, where I can see my customized character, or in this case, ship, in action. I think it would be a very cool addition to add a key binding for your ships as well, instead of just the SRVs, to enter a similar "turret mode" where you have an external camera (third person) that, unlike the cinematic third person cameras, is functional in real gameplay, with all the proper hud elements. Basically the multi crew's gunner controls, but with additional ship movement controls available to the helm.

Sometimes it's annoying when you spend so much time working towards a fancy expensive ship, only to be stuck in cockpit view whenever you need to do anything important with it. Plus, why even bother with liveries and such when you're mostly restricted to first person?

Probably not a perfect idea, so lets address concerns and ways to alleviate them if this were to be implemented

To elaborate how I'd see this implemented:

Key binding to enter turret mode from the helm position of any ship. Enters third person with all weapons performing similarly to the Gunner Position in multi crew gameplay, except for limited aiming radius depending on weapon type equipped (Fixed, Gimballed, Turreted), and maneuvering controls/hud also present

Edit:
The gunner position, for anyone who hasn't seen it before, is demonstrated in the Pilot training video series on Multi-Crew:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOOEamtA08c
at 4:40

Edit2:
Changes to the above implementation to possibly address concerns about the implementation:

-One of, or both of the following restrictions: Only being able to control turreted weapons while in this new mode, and/or requiring a new optional internal/utility hardpoint purchased and installed in order

-Not including the scanner in this view's HUD, so the pilot must use their new situational awareness and visibility from the third person view to find targets.

-Introduce buffs to the multi crew gunner position to keep it desireable to fill in multi crew rather than just having the helm do it, such as sub targetting, and a sensor hud element
 
Last edited:

Captain Willard

Captain Willard
You won't be seeing third person view commanding a star ship in this game.
We have an external view but you cannot pilot a ship while using it, just for picture taking.
FD has said to much of an exploit during combat iirc.
 

Themurloc

Themurloc
if they're concerned about balance, then maybe it would be a good tradeoff to make it only useable when all equipped hardpoints are turreted. then the DPS reduction might balance it out. Or make it so you can only fire turreted hardpoints in that view. ORRR make a new optional internal/utility component required to use it. It's always a bother to me when devs focus so hard on balance that they ignore fun, and pass on ideas that would be VERY fun.

I think it would be worth discussing and finding a way to make it balanced enough to not be exploitative. They already allow the gunner position in multi crew this third person option, so I don't see why not allow it for turreted weapons
 

Themurloc

Themurloc
metatheurgist said:
You can. You just have to make sure your bindings are set up right. The loss of the scanner and any situational awareness beyond the limited view of the camera makes it an inferior option though.
Click to expand...
The gunner position in multi crew also has no scanner available. They basically only have a reticle, ammo, target information, power distribution, health, and shields. You'd basically only need a throttle visualization added to make it functional to use from the helm and still maintain that first person advantage with the scanner.
Captain Willard said:
Well said. So no. I'd vote against it.
Click to expand...
I'd like to hear your thoughts on why. FD said their piece on it, but what do YOU think about the problems posed by a gunner view for the helm?

I'll start editing the primary post on these kinds of details as we discuss them.
 

Kissamies

Kissamies
I have "it is/should be a simulator" attitude and pilotable third person view would be a step towards the wrong direction. Having single player access to the gunner view, possibly with the restriction that you have to have an NPC to pilot the ship, could be a nice addition for the novelty's sake. Wouldn't want them to waste much effort to that, but if it was easy to do...
 

Themurloc

Themurloc
Kissamies said:
I have "it is/should be a simulator" attitude and pilotable third person view would be a step towards the wrong direction. Having single player access to the gunner view, possibly with the restriction that you have to have an NPC to pilot the ship, could be a nice addition for the novelty's sake. Wouldn't want them to waste much effort to that, but if it was easy to do...
Click to expand...
For the sake of immersion/simulator mentality that's why I think it should use the same view as the gunner position, which kinda puts you in a monitor viewing an external camera, and suggested the addition of an optional internal module or utility hardpoint that enables the view for the helm. It would be no less immersive than the srv turret mode and multi crew gunner positions already in the game. Making it just gunner view with autopilot would kind of hurt the main reason why I want this kind of feature in the first place.

We have so many different types of games where you control ships in third person, but are moba esque pvp focused games (and one thats a roguelike), and none that are open world (galaxy) RPGs like ED. If you look at every open space rpg out now or in the works (that focuses on the ships, so NMS doesn't count as its a planet explorer), you'll notice they're basically all first person. We don't really have any good third person space action rpgs. It's an unfilled niche that ED already has the tech to fill. Yeah yeah, there's eve, but what if you don't want a spreadsheet simulator and want more direct control over the ship?

and of course, there would always be the option to not use it, as it would come with its own tradeoffs, as mentioned prior, such as being limited to turreted weapons, not having a scanner, needing to fill an optional internal/utility hardpoint slot and drawing power.
Drelthar said:
I just want them to allow sub targetting in gunner mode. (And allow SRV multicrew)
Click to expand...
That'd be a good idea to make the gunner position still desireable to fill in multi crew instead of just having the helm man it themselves. They could even do more than that, and add more helm features to the gunner position, like the sensor hud, in order to make it better than the helm controlled gunner and make multi crew commanders want to fill the gunner slot instead of just manning it themselves. I'll add it to the main post.

As for SRV multicrew, They'll need to add more variants of SRV to choose from, like they do with fighter bay ships, as the scarab very clearly only has enough space to fit one person. It might take them some amount of effort to do that, but, by all means, I think they should. It would be AWESOME to be able to deploy some multi seat buggies or even an expensive light APC as your SRV
 
Last edited:

Drelthar

Drelthar
Themurloc said:
As for SRV multicrew, They'll need to add more variants of SRV to choose from, like they do with fighter bay ships, as the scarab very clearly only has enough space to fit one person. It might take them some amount of effort to do that, but, by all means, I think they should. It would be AWESOME to be able to deploy some multi seat buggies or even an expensive light APC as your SRV
Click to expand...

I don't think you understood me.

I don't want multiple people in an SRV (though that would be cool!) I just want to be able to get some crew on board, and drop them off on a planet, in my SRV, which they can then ride around in.

Like with fighters, but, with SRV's.

You know, so I could use the HORIZONS feature of multicrew, with the HORIZONS feature of planets, and cool thargoid bases and stuff.

Get some guy on board and show them the cool stuff, without them having to build up to an asp with an FSD the size of king kong, so that they don't die of boredom jumping all the way over there :)

Get people into the game, and stuff.
 

Themurloc

Themurloc
Drelthar said:
I don't think you understood me.

I don't want multiple people in an SRV (though that would be cool!) I just want to be able to get some crew on board, and drop them off on a planet, in my SRV, which they can then ride around in.

Like with fighters, but, with SRV's.
Click to expand...
aah, i see what you mean now. I didn't realize you couldn't already do that. Yeah that would also be nice. but also the multiple people in one SRV, since I assume different SRVs are in the works, since there's already a section in the outfitting store to buy SRVs in multiple varieties, even though there's only one available (the scarab)
 
Last edited:

Exeider

Exeider
Themurloc said:
So I recently discovered the SRV's Turret mode, and also dabbled in multi crew gameplay for the first time, where I also found the neat 3rd person functionality of the gunner position a fun addition, but a tad pointless as the helm can control all the weapons anyways. I had an idea of repurposing that camera style for some third person gameplay when turreted weapons are installed.

As much as I like elite dangerous, I've always been partial to third person games, where I can see my customized character, or in this case, ship, in action. I think it would be a very cool addition to add a key binding for your ships as well, instead of just the SRVs, to enter a similar "turret mode" where you have an external camera (third person) that, unlike the cinematic third person cameras, is functional in real gameplay, with all the proper hud elements. Basically the multi crew's gunner controls, but with additional ship movement controls available to the helm.

Sometimes it's annoying when you spend so much time working towards a fancy expensive ship, only to be stuck in cockpit view whenever you need to do anything important with it. Plus, why even bother with liveries and such when you're mostly restricted to first person?

Probably not a perfect idea, so lets address concerns and ways to alleviate them if this were to be implemented

To elaborate how I'd see this implemented:

Key binding to enter turret mode from the helm position of any ship. Enters third person with all weapons performing similarly to the Gunner Position in multi crew gameplay, except for limited aiming radius depending on weapon type equipped (Fixed, Gimballed, Turreted), and maneuvering controls/hud also present

Edit:
The gunner position, for anyone who hasn't seen it before, is demonstrated in the Pilot training video series on Multi-Crew:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOOEamtA08c
at 4:40

Edit2:
Changes to the above implementation to possibly address concerns about the implementation:

-One of, or both of the following restrictions: Only being able to control turreted weapons while in this new mode, and/or requiring a new optional internal/utility hardpoint purchased and installed in order

-Not including the scanner in this view's HUD, so the pilot must use their new situational awareness and visibility from the third person view to find targets.

-Introduce buffs to the multi crew gunner position to keep it desireable to fill in multi crew rather than just having the helm do it, such as sub targetting, and a sensor hud element
Click to expand...
I would be down for the ability to turn the ship over to an NPC crew mate to fly the ship while you jump in the gunner seat, but yeah not flying and shooting, that is the "turrets in space" thing that Fdev is worried about.

What Fdev should have done is make both the multi-crew and NPC crew experiences the same behaviorally speaking so that going from one experience to the other is less jarring and more congruent with one another, the only difference being your crew members are human or computers
 
Last edited:

Exeider

Exeider
Themurloc said:
aah, i see what you mean now. I didn't realize you couldn't already do that. Yeah that would also be nice. but also the multiple people in one SRV, since I assume different SRVs are in the works, since there's already a section in the outfitting store to buy SRVs in multiple varieties, even though there's only one available (the scarab)
Click to expand...
no to mention it would give a reason to carry the 2 and 4 SRV bay variants, enough for everyone to have an SRV and go tooling around together, as a crew.. like it should be.

I mean seriously, why does one pilot need 4 SRVs?
 

Themurloc

Themurloc
Exeider said:
I would be down for the ability to turn the ship over to an NPC crew mate to fly the ship while you jump in the gunner seat, but yeah not flying and shooting, that is the "turrets in space" thing that Fdev is worried about.

What Fdev should have done is make both the multi-crew and NPC crew experiences the same behaviorally speaking so that going from one experience to the other is less jarring and more congruent with one another, the only difference being your crew members are human or computers
Click to expand...
I understand the sentiment behind FD's decision, but i think their fear is unwarranted, especially with the restrictions on a helm/gunner combo mode I laid out. Y'know, the additional power draw and price of the module/turreted versions of weapons that are more expensive for less dps. Hell, all the people voicing their disagreement in this thread alone, and the assumption that these people would not use the feature if it WAS implemented, PLUS the requirements needed just to USE the feature, leads me to believe that this wouldn't be as widely used as they and FD fear.

Think of it as a similar situation to the docking computer internal component. Yeah, you can have a system that automatically docks you at the station you've requested docking with, and it might be less immersive than flying the ship in yourself and maneuvering it onto the landing pad, but some people, like myself, might either simply PREFER landing themselves, or not find the internal component worth the money, component slot, and power draw.

As it stands now, I already feel like their fear of third person has made the game feel like a "chairs in space" thing being stuck in the cockpit of every ship and vehicle rather than the "turrets in space" that they're afraid of. It is difficult to really feel a difference, often times, just from the cockpit view, when you spend millions of credits on a new ship. Without spending a detrimental amount of time in the Hud-less external camera, a small Sidewinder can feel awfully similar to a massive Federal Corvette.
 

UmbraRex

UmbraRex
Exeider said:
no to mention it would give a reason to carry the 2 and 4 SRV bay variants, enough for everyone to have an SRV and go tooling around together, as a crew.. like it should be.

I mean seriously, why does one pilot need 4 SRVs?
Click to expand...
SRV base jumping comes to mind.
Or SRV racing.
Or Guardian site stuff (Assuming the pilot is as bad at fighting the sentinels as I am)
I think explorers like to have more than one too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom