A Simple Solution to Combat Logging

[Northpin]

Every single exploit or bug does not need to be explicitly called out, individually, within the EULA. Anything deemed an exploit falls under the EULA's very clear calling out of "exploits". It is spelled out in the EULA, but you're doing some mental gymnastics around it.

Yes, but when someone is turning off his console or his PC which doesn't involve going through menu to exit the game, can you call that an exploit?
Can you punish someone for turning off a pc/console assuming that he is not relogging back in game for a certain period of time (at least 1-2 hours, maybe for the day)

Maybe give it a rest now mate. We’ve already had a slap on the wrists. Let’s just agree to disagree.

but yea, basically this ^

 

[Ezren]

Maybe this was missed earlier.

It's not a terrible idea, if restricted to hard disconnects and not menu-logs.

Though if somebody just pulls the plug while being interdicted they're just going to log back in to normal space.

 

[Riverside]

It's not a terrible idea, if restricted to hard disconnects and not menu-logs.

Though if somebody just pulls the plug while being interdicted they're just going to log back in to normal space.

I reposted it more for the definition of what Combat Logging is than what my preferred solution is, but thanks

 

[Brrokk]

If you read my previous few comments, you'll see why I'd prefer the instadeath-on-disconnect solution. It's not other ppl clogging on me (that's cheating in my book, a waste of my time for sure, but only an annoyance after all). The bigger problem with the current system is that you might appear a clogger (=cheater) yourself, if your connection happens to fail during combat. I'd rather lose my ship than having to try and explain myself afterwards that "no I totally didn't clog, it was my connection blah blah".

As for you deliberately disconnecting me using hacks - well that's pretty surely a breach of the TOS/EULA, so if it 's not something you can get banned for, I don't know what is.

Yikes, no, I have a sense of proportion. I'd rather explain whatever I have to explain than arbitrarily lose my ship now and then.

 

[Northpin]

Maybe this was missed earlier.

It's not a terrible idea, if restricted to hard disconnects and not menu-logs.

Though if somebody just pulls the plug while being interdicted they're just going to log back in to normal space.

And if someone pulls the plug mid combat and gets a mauve error at relog he will find himself in the same normal space instance where the combat is taking place? or in a personal instance from the normal space?

 

[Han_Zen]

...which would send you to the rebuy screen on your next login attempt, under the system I suggested ("connection loss for whatever reason during combat = rebuy").



I would totally do that, rather than my Scarlet Kraits making me look like a clogger.



Then the servers would know it, wouldn't they? BTW it's a cheat in itself, so the same should apply as in the invulnerable shield cases. Keep doing it, get permabanned.

I just tested. I can turn of my WiFi (for a long time) , go to the menu, turn WiFi back on and confirm exit. I don't even get a disconnect. It's a clean log of from the games perspective, with me being safe while running down the timer. (don't worry, I didn't combat log)

Every player gets a few Scarlet Kraits during updates. FD would get a tons of support.

And servers do not know that a P2P connection is broken. At least not for a while. There is no way of telling who broke it(or if any of them did), without the net logs from the players. Even then it's hard. It's not suited for automatic detection.
Breaking the P2P connection is cheating, but it's practically undetectable. Combat loggers cheat anyway, so that wouldn't stop them.

If ED was a client/server game this would be relatively simple to fix, but that would mean we could only interact with those on our local server.
There are hybrid options that could work, where a virtual server is created for instances with several commanders. This is probably really expensive and will therefor never happen.

Some players refuse to accept that Open allows for PvP without consent and others actively use CL to avoid destruction in PvP. All you can do is to report it. There is no technical solution on the horizon.

 

[Total_dogus]

The instadeath suggestion is funny. So if my 2yo daughter wakes up crying I have to decide between turning the game off to comfort her or lose my ship. I’d choose the former of course - but for crying out loud lol.

 

[Misty_Dark]

The only thing that could be manipulated in the system I was talking about is the consequence (bypassing the rebuy screen), but ppl would need to use a client side hack for it, which is beyond doubt a TOS/EULA breach and can be treated accordingly.

Besides, it's no different now. Virtually everything can be manipulated using hacks.

No they do not need to hack anything...
They only need to block the traffic from their computer to the other player.... and many of this works regardless of platform your are on.

• So if you have a broadband router, just pull the network cable from it, and your are disconnected.... you will get the same effect if you pull the power from it...
  You can pull the network cable from your computer.
• If you are on wireless, disconnect from the network or simply turn of wireless on either your computer or in the wireless router.
• Add a new firewall rule your local firewall, DENY ALL, it will effectively block all traffic.
• Add/activate a firewall in your router, that blocks your computer traffic,

None of these would I call hacking... as you cannot tell what happened from the other side... only that the network traffic stopped...And people have done most of the above by accident... Have repeatedle visited the same friend who put the all the "computer stuff" on power strip with a on/off button, including the router. so when they can turn all the stuff when they do not use the computer, a great idea, until they changed to IP telephony.. as the phones stopped working everytime the turned off the power strip.... I get here, move the router to another outlet, and explains that their phone NEEDS their router to be connected, I even wrote a label on their router, MUST BE ON, then I get a call about the router does not turn off with the rest of the computer stuff, so they have to pull the plug manually.... and then of course their phone stops working...so no, you do not need any special skills or software, you can by misstake be disconnected in what looks like a combat log.

 

[Riverside]

The past few days I've been working on a war to maintain a faction I put in control of a system, in control. I was in a wing of four with some PvP buddies that help me out with combat stuff, we entered a High CZ & there was already a player in the scenario on the opposing side, it was nearly complete.

I did my go-to move in these situations, which is to hail them with an 'o7 Cmdr ' and put my ship in their line of fire to make sure they are situationally aware, and to see how they react (ie will they fire on me, leave, or communicate. I always prefer a diplomatic solution).

The player returned my o7 and accepted my friend request but turned & moved off, continuing to kill NPCs. I said to the wing we should just try to win the scenario. We didn't, it was too far gone to pull back.

We remained, me & another continuing to kill enemy NPCs (for massacre mission count, making the best of a bad situation) but the other two started harrassing the opposing player, trying to goad them into fighting back or leaving. The player logged off and went to solo, presumably to continue fighting. I said to my wing that I wanted to find out this players motivation - whether they were an opposing BGSer or just a random player ranking up or whatever.

We docked for resupply and I contacted this player (because fortunately he was now on my friend list) to try to establish why he was fighting in this system, and why he had chosen that faction. And why he hadn't just jumped out too I guess.

I managed to establish that they were getting bonds for an engineer unlock and that they thought they had to get bonds for the particular superpower that faction was aligned with. I persuaded them to help our side, and through some instancing shenanigans got them into the wing with my buddies & I left the wing to do some other stuff (I was the weakest at combat in the wing).


This is how I play. It's how I 'PvP'. It's rare, but meaningful. That player should have jumped away or accepted their fate, as I have done on previous occasions, but they didn't. Their saving grace was that they accepted my friend request.

 

[Bryan K]

Yeah, that's not how it works. Murder is murder, regardless of if the law specifies the method. "Oh, he killed that guy with a bowling pin, darn the law! He's free to go"

It's not "many" have said. It's basically you and Dogus who think that. The EULA binds players to follow the Code of Conduct. The Code of Conduct does not allow exploits.

Is Rockforth Fertilizer specified in the EULA?

You’re confusing state/federal law with TOS agreements issued by a company. Two completely different rulesets there. You’re also conflating irl murder with a video game choice, which is a bit ridiculous. Obviously one is actually a severe crime, and the other barely warrants notice.

As for the “many”, peruse other threads on the subject of the EULA wording over the past few years and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I think the simplest solution is sodium chloride in water (Dihydrogen Oxide). I believe it dissolves even better than glucose in caffeinated water.

 

[Ezren]

You’re confusing state/federal law with TOS agreements issued by a company. Two completely different rulesets there. You’re also conflating irl murder with a video game choice, which is a bit ridiculous. Obviously one is actually a severe crime, and the other barely warrants notice.

As for the “many”, peruse other threads on the subject of the EULA wording over the past few years and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

You're confusing "conflating" with what an analogy is. You spent most of your post on this mistake, and some vague references to people who agree with you.

You did not respond to my point, though you carefully talked around it. The EULA binds players to follow the Code of Conduct. The Code of Conduct does not allow exploits.

Is Rockforth Fertilizer specified in the EULA?

 

[galahad2069]

And if someone pulls the plug mid combat and gets a mauve error at relog he will find himself in the same normal space instance where the combat is taking place? or in a personal instance from the normal space?

If you combat log (task kill, pull cable, menu log, whatever) and a bit later log back on to Open, you will respawn at the same place where you left the instance. If the other CMDR is patient enough to wait for you, you will be put back into the same instance with him. This is how combat loggers are killed BTW if they forget to change mode.

 

[Riverside]

If you combat log (task kill, pull cable, menu log, whatever) and a bit later log back on to Open, you will respawn at the same place where you left the instance. If the other CMDR is patient enough to wait for you, you will be put back into the same instance with him. This is how combat loggers are killed BTW if they forget to change mode.

But importantly, it also means that that explorer who gets a disconnect while close to a star isn't penalised, they just log back in to the mode they left & carry on.

 

[Eliza]

But importantly, it also means that that explorer who gets a disconnect while close to a star isn't penalised, they just log back in to the mode they left & carry on.

...but in normal space (when he was scooping, as the disco happend)

 

[Vorxian]

I like one of the original ideas that as a 'gentlemans right of contest', if you're shooting someone, and they combat log... You WIN. You simply win without needing to lift finger. I call that supreme victory in any event. It's clean, it's so simple, so easy to referee, it's binary.

You could even roleplay that Thargoids kidnapped your enemy for you lol



EDIT: Once set, this rule-scape would cement unity and solidify the game community against more arguments about the 'unfairness' of logging out during combat!

 

[Northpin]

The instadeath suggestion is funny.

Instadeath suggestion would perfectly make sense in a no-death-penalty pvp-only game
But in a game where most people log in open for the social coop aspect and not specifically to kill other people and where the death carries a hefty penalty, nope.

 

[Riverside]

...but in normal space (when he was scooping, as the disco happend)

Yes, no change from what happens now They are not penalised in a way that's meaningful to their situation.

 

[Eliza]

I like one of the original ideas that as a 'gentlemans right of contest', if you're shooting someone, and they combat log... You WIN. You simply win without needing to lift finger. I call that supreme victory in any event. It's clean, it's so simple, so easy to referee, it's binary.

You could even roleplay that Thargoids kidnapped your enemy for you lol

Exactly this...I prayed it down 2-3 times only in this thread here, that a c-log counts as a flawless victory on my side. I managed to hinder certain...uhm...pvpers to pvp unconsensually, to say it the complicated way.

 

[galahad2069]

Instadeath suggestion would perfectly make sense in a no-death-penalty pvp-only game
But in a game where most people log in open for the social coop aspect and not specifically to kill other people and where the death carries a hefty penalty, nope.

That death penalty (rebuy) is peanuts these days. Even your elite NPC crewmember will survive after the January Update (iirc).

That said, I'd be all in for an even lower rebuy in some cases (the Pilot Federation could grant you an even cheaper insurance if you were not wanted and it wasn't a power play kill), but some people (I think it was Morbad who said that) would argue that a game without consequences is not a good game, and they have a point, I must admit.