If you are baffled by the presence of people who like the game in the games own forum you've got much bigger problems than the game. Realistic expectations help.
Your least enjoyable Elite activity?
- Thread starter Navigare Necesse Est
- Start date
If you are baffled by the presence of people who like the game in the games own forum you've got much bigger problems than the game. Realistic expectations help.
But that isn't even what I said.... Ok mate... I'll leave you to your witterings.
No doubt there'll be some inane reply to this post so you can have that last word you seem to hold so dear.
It's so hilarious.
You can keep your stuff, too salty for me.
The same can be said about people who descend down to criticism threads trying to argue on personal experiences. Taste isnt objective. Everyone knows it. "Factual wrong" isnt something you cannot argue over here. I find the grind disgusting - there isnt really much anyone can do about it. Not today, not tomorrow. Yet still people try. Well, some try to be helpful, appreciated. It isnt asked for here tho.
EDIT: "ob"jective
Last edited:
Tonight I've spent a fair amount of time hauling (food for a famine). Getting a Cutter or a T-9 to turn in supercruise if you made a mistake & overshot has got to be up there
I would take a T-9 over a Cutter any day, the T-9 (in normal space at least) is slow, but responsive when turning. The Cutter on the other hand, feels like there is a 10 second delay to any controls. The only reason why I don't use a T-9 when heavy hauling, is because even though it's one of the most massive ships, it's mass locked even by ships a third of it's mass, even the krait and python mass lock the T-9, and the sheer lack of logic annoys me to smithereens.
The "logic" is actually a game design thing, it's about trade ships being interdicable by pirate ships for conflict reasons.
I agree it makes little sense in an intuitive context within the game world though, you would expect more mass, higher mass lock factor. It's odd, but seems that's what it's there for.
That's what I reckon from having looked at how mass lock factors work on a big list of it all.
I very much agree on this. I still dislike Engineers. I guess everybody around here knows that by now. But I make sure that my dislike is based on the current status, not on how it was years ago, before it was changed a lot.
I do like how the T-9 feels almost sporty when you get straight out of a Cutter
The mass-lock factors are a bit wierd, yes.
Fair enough, I didn't feel enticed to come back. It's like a backlog of procrastinated work looming over my account.
You quit after engineers V1 after choosing to grind at it, I chose not to do the grind which then didn't trigger a quit. Back then I told people consistently "stop grinding or you'll burn out".
So while I get you really didn't like your chosen approach to the game back then I don't value your opinion on how grindy you think engineers might be now and I don't think your experience has been relevant for the last few years.
Except, like I told you many times already: it's not as important as you paint it to be. I can do combat perfectly well in a non-engineered ship, too. The only limitation is that I should not attack wings of several ships in a non-engineered ship. And I am not a great pilot, either, so I can't credit this to superior skills or anything like that.
If you want your ship engineered, right now, to the max, it indeed is a terrible and annoying grind. If you on the other hand just collect materials as you go and once a while exchange them at a material trader, you end up with more than enough material to engineer a ship. It's true, because it's exactly what I did with the last ships I engineered: I just used the materials I already had stored away. No extra effort, except having to travel around for an hour or two, to visit those engineers of which I needed several items engineered, as you can't pin more than one blueprint per engineer.
It very much depends on how you operate. In case you want to see it as work and want to do it quickly: indeed, it will be highly annoying. But as you don't really need to engineer your ship, unless you immediately want to do things like soloing wing assassination missions, it can also happen quite naturally with limited extra effort. It very much depends on how you choose to play.
The Engineers are not as bad as they formerly were. Would FD finally find the guts to also rebalance the blueprints and cut down the crazy power scaling, they could actually be a nice addition to the game. What I still dislike is to how crazily you can stack up defenses. But luckily NPCs don't really use that system too much, so it's not that big of a PvE problem as some people paint it to be. As long as you pick your targets reasonably well (means: not attacking a wing of two Anacondas and one FGS, all three with a SLF hangar on board), you can still do fine without any engineering.
Same here. V1 Engineers were terribly bad. It seems like their design was based on pure manager greed, lack of understanding of game design, plenty of drugs and perhaps a lobotomy here and there. That's why I also did very little engineering at that time. It was hell of annoying to collect materials for a G5 upgrade, to then just have several rolls all turn out bad. I tried that once, saw what it does to the player and gave up on it. My ships mostly had G1 or G2 upgrades, of which I was able to afford plenty of rolls without having to invest much time into it.
I very much do understand that the old system burnt out people and they hated it. I also did, that's why I ignored it. But the game moved on. Luckily the rolling system was redeemed. Engineers in my eyes still are not awesome, it's unlikely that I'll ever start to praise them. But they are functional now and can be used with acceptable effort.
Last edited:
The problem isnt that you dont like it. The problem is that none of you complaints are relevant
That isn't the case. Some are subjective, some are design decisions. It was a game changer, and not everything was made better.
Yet his complaints are all based on how they were a long time ago. A lot was changed. Plenty of complaints he forwards we also had on the old system. But they were removed or mitigated in the new system. Some others are indeed still valid, but that's unfortunately covered up by the "in old times it was like this and I hated it, so now I hate everything".
And the idealist in me still hopes that FD at some time does look at comments and just once in a while decides to improve things. But when they keep reading "this is bad" and they look at their stuff and find that the players comments are simply not true any more, how could they ever reasonably act on that? And yes, I know that this is unlikely to happen. But hey, FD says that development is going on, we are supposed to get a huge update at the end of the year, maybe we are lucky.
Edit:
For me it just very much feels like what i already wrote seveal pages earlier. The first production batch of the BMW M3 had plenty of issues. Recalls and fixes and stuff. Several people I know had the "privilege" of enjoying the cars infant problems. They hated it for the first year or two. But would it be helpful to now tell BWM people that their cars are terribly bad, based on the experience of that time? It might be just me, but I wouldn't consider that constructive.
Last edited:
Except nothing he says is valid because he hasnt even tried the new system.
He only ever tried old engineers, all his complaints are based on that,.
The biggest problem with the old system was the lack of a ceiling, the people who lacked control could just sit and grind till they bled from their eyes. In threads about how to engineer just your thrusters the advice was being given as "you need 200 rolls minimum" I was going with best of three and getting called names for saying so. My stuff was just as good that last 0.003% just never mattered.
V2 was (I think) specifically designed to stop that sort of gaming self harm by adding an upper limit. FDEV didn't see it coming as this is their first MMO so they didn't understand how crazy some gamers can get.
The void opal price balance might have been the same because people were going at that in a really grindy way for entirely imaginary carrier prices.
Semi-true. For some items that actually worked, but if your setup required a special effect along with the item being any good, it quickly turned into madness. You could end up doing 20 or 30 rolls, only getting the special effect once and just on that roll all important stats were worse than on a non-engineered item. (E.g. my Imperial Courier had heat issues. I tried to correct that with a thermal venting beam laser. In the end had several rather good healing beam laser stored away and decided to rather replace the PA with a cannon, as the randomizer would never give me the thermal vent. )
It was atrocious. That's how I saw it and I stand to it. But I do have to give credit where credit is due: FD did listen and while it took them longer than I liked to wait for it, they managed to change the system into something which we can work with. Not pure fun, not an exceptional and astonishing gameplay experience, but workable.
Last edited:
I don't agree with many of the points people raise, but I try to understand them, I empathise. I agree that people should check to see whether a particular gripe or bug has been addressed, and that the process of engineering a ship is not as grindy as it was (I thought the original implementation was fine tbh and just got on with it. Many, many people didn't and some still don't).
What we have here, and with other examples, is a situation where (to use the vernacular) whiners complained, and the game was changed to remove much of the challenge (ie the actual gameplay) at the expense of people who were not complaining. Then when those previously happy customers complain, they are called the whiners by idiots who don't look at the bigger picture because the change suited them or they don't care about the change.
Opinions are fine, it's okay to disagree. Generally I only comment when whatever I think has not already been stated, it means I tend to sit on the minority side of plenty of discussions. That doesn't make me (or anyone else) wrong or irrelevant to them or to a wider audience. It doesn't necessarily mean I'm right either
Last edited:
I'd forgotten experimentals V1 it was a pain, I used to spend rep to adjust the experimental so far fewer rolls, then buy some random item to engineer with plentiful stuff and get the rep back.
I've no issues with V2, as long as you don't try to engineer a whole fleet at once and gather as you go its easy and makes the game much more fun.