FSS - my opinion

[Sysmon]

Kind of begs the question then why some people seem to object so strongly to an optional ADS (or ADS type) module...

I'm inclined to agree. With the caveat that an optional or supplemental ADS-type module should be process-oriented similar to the FSS, and most of the rest of the game input mechanics: We don't have similar one-button flight mechanics doing all the work for us - that's EVE territory.

S

 

[Sysmon]

Again, it depends on what you are looking for. How much information is enough on which the player can base a meaningful decision to investigate further or rule it out & move on.

The obvious solution is to have both, just as we have in explored space, but for the long standing original mechanic to remain optional so that those who played a lot & grew bored, or those who never took to the old mechanic don't have to fit it. I'd assume most would though.

That way nobody is worse off than they were before 3.3, everybody wins.

Those of us holding out for something not inanely tedious would be worse off.

S

 

[Riverside]

I'm inclined to agree. With the caveat that an optional or supplemental ADS-type module should be process-oriented similar to the FSS, and most of the rest of the game input mechanics: We don't have similar one-button flight mechanics doing all the work for us - that's EVE territory.

S

What one-button flight mechanic is this? The ADS provided a different slice, not the whole cake

 

[Riverside]

Those of us holding out for something not inanely tedious would be worse off.

S

No they wouldn't, they would have everything they have now.

 

[Sysmon]

No they wouldn't, they would have everything they have now.

Together with 1-click I WIN button that does all the same. Not working anywhere else, and won't work here either.

S

 

[Riverside]

Together with 1-click I WIN button that does all the same. Not working anywhere else, and won't work here either.

S

What one-button flight mechanic is this? The ADS provided a different slice, not the whole cake

 

[Faded Glory]

I'm inclined to agree. With the caveat that an optional or supplemental ADS-type module should be process-oriented similar to the FSS, and most of the rest of the game input mechanics: We don't have similar one-button flight mechanics doing all the work for us - that's EVE territory.

S

Remember, the ADS provided no more from the honk than the FSS does (in terms of credits). Perhaps a tiny bit more in as much as you could spot an unusually colored gas giant, but the trade off in accuracy for most bodies identified by both makes the FSS a clear winner.

I just think of a populated system map (with unexplored bodies bodies obviously) as a different view than that given by the energy / frequency bar in the FSS.

 

[Sysmon]

I just think of a populated system map (with unexplored bodies bodies obviously) as a different view than that given by the energy / frequency bar in the FSS.

I'd like something similar, although just not immediately available upon honk. It should take a little while for the map to populate as motions of the bodies whose orbits are being calculated need to be registered by the instrument. That would take various amounts of time, and could be made faster based on the player's ability to position their ship optimally.

S

 

[Riverside]

I'd like something similar, although just not immediately available upon honk. It should take a little while for the map to populate as motions of the bodies whose orbits are being calculated need to be registered by the instrument. That would take various amounts of time, and could be made faster based on the player's ability to position their ship optimally.

S

It does take time, it takes 5 seconds. Same time it takes to populate the FSS Scanner Screen

 

[Sysmon]

It does take time, it takes 5 seconds. Same time it takes to populate the FSS Scanner Screen

That's not really how it works. If it was a scan and 5 seconds of wait for return of data, why do we have to hold down the scanner button? Seem to be a charge of some sort (if it isn't why don't we get a partial scan if we let go early?).

The ADS was an insta-win button, held down for 5 seconds to give us a populated system map. After that we were left to our own devices.

The FSS appears to be a set of busywork set up after the honk returns a bunch of energy/frequency signatures for us to play with. If, as other have stated, we try to use it in the exact same way we used the ADS, it just results in a lot of busywork for the same outcome. But it can be used a lot smarter than that.

Ideally we would have something in-between the two. Plenty of suggestions here and elsewhere as to what, without having to resort to historic non-mechanics.

S

 

[Riverside]

That's not really how it works. If it was a scan and 5 seconds of wait for return of data, why do we have to hold down the scanner button? Seem to be a charge of some sort (if it isn't why don't we get a partial scan if we let go early?).

The ADS was an insta-win button, held down for 5 seconds to give us a populated system map. After that we were left to our own devices.

The FSS appears to be a set of busywork set up after the honk returns a bunch of energy/frequency signatures for us to play with. If, as other have stated, we try to use it in the exact same way we used the ADS, it just results in a lot of busywork for the same outcome. But it can be used a lot smarter than that.

Ideally we would have something in-between the two. Plenty of suggestions here and elsewhere as to what, without having to resort to historic non-mechanics.

S

No it wasn't, and you know it wasn't any more than the new stuff is. It just gave a different slice of the data, and even with both combined (as we have in the bubble & explored/tagged systems) you don't get everything, there is still work to do to fill in the blanks but there is a choice of how to go about it.

But what you do get is enough information to be able to make a meaningful decision when what you are looking for is not the planet type but where it is and/or what it looks like.

The starting information is that you know something is there, because you can see it (well the computer can). Your justification about a charge being built up is arbitrary, it can just as easily be considered the time to plot the orbits.

The only reason why the old stuff is no longer in the game is because someone at FDev wanted it to go away, not because of any lore or logic. Ideally we would have the choice of either or both because it doesn't matter how others choose to discover a system, only that they get back & sell the data before anyone else.

 

[Riverside]

Sysmon, I hope you will not think I am having a go, I appreciate that you are taking the time to act as devil's advocate, and to defend your position. Your reasoning is fine, but so was the reasoning for the old stuff.

Here's something I wrote over a year ago now, as I'm sure you can appreciate I have written a great deal more on this topic since too:

The compromise is not to reintroduce the ADS with black bodies or in any other compromised way, the pre-3.3 discovery modules should be reinstated intact.

The compromise is in accepting that the codex has not been populated with the millions of player discoveries that pre-date 3.3.

The compromise is in accepting that the first discovered tags from players that actually travelled to the body to get them were not retroactively given first mapped tags too, because if the option had been available it can be assumed they would have.

The compromise is in accepting that the pre-3.3 tags have no note to show they weren't just obtained in a few minutes with a telescope, but by a player who actually travelled to them.

 

[Faded Glory]

The ADS was an insta-win button, held down for 5 seconds to give us a populated system map. After that we were left to our own devices.

Insta-win? It showed you what was in the system, just as the FSS honk does, with the acknowledged exception of GGG. And after you check the energy spectrum, you can decide to go further or not, just as you could after looking at the system map.

The thing for me is that many systems are unremarkable, and I don't wish to engage with them. Whatever a 'honk' does, it should be an invitation to enquire further, and whether that's an unexplored system map or the energy spectrum is really immaterial. Unless you (one) thinks that somehow the energy spectrum is more difficult to use than the system map was.

 

[Riverside]

Insta-win? It showed you what was in the system, just as the FSS honk does, with the acknowledged exception of GGG. And after you check the energy spectrum, you can decide to go further or not, just as you could after looking at the system map.

The thing for me is that many systems are unremarkable, and I don't wish to engage with them. Whatever a 'honk' does, it should be an invitation to enquire further, and whether that's an unexplored system map or the energy spectrum is really immaterial. Unless you (one) thinks that somehow the energy spectrum is more difficult to use than the system map was.

Indeed with only the system map (and the HUD icon of the targeted body) one needs some experience to guess or determine what type of body any one planet is. The FSS wave spectrum thing actually tells you what the body will be with a key, and once scanned the full information on the system map tells you whether a body is terraformable before you optionally travel there to map it.

I don't have an issue with this, because what's important is not how the system is resolved, only how quickly the player returns & sells the data to get first discovery. And if the player is not overly concerned about rushing back to get first discovery, why would that same player need gameplay to be gated behind the first discovered tag at all?

 

[Sysmon]

Sysmon, I hope you will not think I am having a go, I appreciate that you are taking the time to act as devil's advocate, and to defend your position. Your reasoning is fine, but so was the reasoning for the old stuff.

Here's something I wrote over a year ago now, as I'm sure you can appreciate I have written a great deal more on this topic since too:

We certainly do need more information with the tags. There's some "back in those days" stories to be told about early exploration.

S

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Same here. I tend to look for interesting initial features upon original honk, in my case signs of life or NSPs.. That means checking the spectrum for gas giants and ELW/AWs. I usually move on if those features are not present. If the gas giants are not interesting, I check the rest of the spectrum for interesting clusters. And I usually check one cluster of bodies at the time, flying to it if it shows what I need.

So I go in and out of the FSS, and I really only use the System Map for reference, as I really don't like it and less so in VR.

Scanning entire systems with the FSS in one go is as mind-numbing as the old ADS scan and fly method was, but at least the FSS is faster.

S

I can't remember the last time I opened the system map, its been a while.

 

[Sysmon]

I can't remember the last time I opened the system map, its been a while.

I've used it to get to the orrery more than anything. Then again, we have a nice orrery in the cockpit UI, just need to turn on orbital lines.

S

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Insta-win? It showed you what was in the system, just as the FSS honk does, with the acknowledged exception of GGG. And after you check the energy spectrum, you can decide to go further or not, just as you could after looking at the system map.

The thing for me is that many systems are unremarkable, and I don't wish to engage with them. Whatever a 'honk' does, it should be an invitation to enquire further, and whether that's an unexplored system map or the energy spectrum is really immaterial. Unless you (one) thinks that somehow the energy spectrum is more difficult to use than the system map was.

The FSS does not tell you where any of them are, you have to find them using the FSS. The ADS honk gave you precise coordinates of every body in the system after a 5 second honk. The FSS honk does not. They are far from the same.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Insta-win?

When people start using hyperboles like these, there's little use in discussing. Is the FSS an insta win for ELW hunters? No, because there is no win, just an easy way to tag ELWs with very little effort, even if they're hundreds of thousands ls away. That's not a win. Getting the information of the ADS readily available also isn't a win. It's a QOL tool for many explorers.

 

[Sysmon]

When people start using hyperboles like these, there's little use in discussing. Is the FSS an insta win for ELW hunters? No, because there is no win, just an easy way to tag ELWs with very little effort. That's not a win. Getting the information of the ADS readily available also isn't a win. It's a QOL tool for many explorers.

There really is no point in the discussion in the first place, as we really have nothing to compare the FSS to. The ADS basically negated itself as a game mechanic by being of unlimited range. The more basic scanners could be said to require a bit of skill, but were still kind of silly due to the amount of info they provided within their range. But at least we had to move around a bit and use our heads with the basic and intermediate scanners.

I would like to see a discussion of what kind of tool could be added that would complement the FSS, reduce the amount of work needed in the FSS (which does seem to be a lot of busywork when some of the info could be gathered before even entering it). Of course, if we did have a tool that could gather orbital positions of otherwise unidentified objects, that info could be added to the FSS itself, as a list of bookmarks for example that the FSS would move to if selected within that interface. Frankly, such as system really should be in place already so we didn't have to go look for bodies again that we already scanned.

S