Knowing where they are / being offered the choice to fly there has no value in that it should be special and earned by people.
FSS - my opinion
- Thread starter [VR] optimal_909
- Start date
Knowing where they are / being offered the choice to fly there has no value in that it should be special and earned by people.
Marx had a fun thread some time ago. He had a screenshot of a system map, highlighted a planet and asked: what type of planet is this? There were many different answers. And I must say with 50.000 system maps under my belt, I couldn't tell you with certainty. The energy spectrum on the other hand actually labels the waveforms for you.The thing for me is that many systems are unremarkable, and I don't wish to engage with them. Whatever a 'honk' does, it should be an invitation to enquire further, and whether that's an unexplored system map or the energy spectrum is really immaterial. Unless you (one) thinks that somehow the energy spectrum is more difficult to use than the system map was.
Which is why the remarks how overpowered the ADS is, is so ironic for those who champion the FSS where the spectrometer leaves very little uncertainty about what planet types there are in a system. With regard to ranges, the FSS is as unlimited as the ADS was. Objectively, the FSS is more overpowered than the ADS ever could be. You can tag & bag ELWs in seconds.
What the ADS does show, and where the FSS is lacking, are areas which have no impact in the game, they just cater to the interest of some explorers. There are no advantages anyone could gain from the ADS. Provided the objects in the ADS cannot be selected, which is a small unimportant compromise to make in my opinion, you remove the issue of 'knowing where they are'. (Because it takes seconds to find them in FSS, who cares?)
Last edited:
Just checked, yeah i don't see them either. That's a bug? lol. Yeah must be frustrating knowing frontier will never fix it if you're aware of it.
They haven't fixed the ground salvage mission reticule in years, so wouldn't get your hopes up.
Its just one of those no choices with the fss i guess.
Together with 1-click I WIN button that does all the same. Not working anywhere else, and won't work here either.
Do you honestly not see all the stuff that you don't have to do now after you click something in the fss? Match up the rewards of that click with prior systems. Given there's pretty much nothing else left to do after the "click" part of the fss, that's the i win button in exploration right there.
The ads didn't give it any of that, it just let you start going about earning it.
It’s less frustrating, and more of a minor annoyance. My chief source of frustration remains the artificial throttle restriction. Being able to use the FSS on the move, both so I resolve distant icy bodies when I’m on my way to somewhere a lot more interesting, and so I can get a better view of my destination to plan my braking maneuver in advance, would improve the game immensely.
Yes, I remember that thread. It turned out was an Ammonia world if I recall, and I agree that finding standard known bodies is not only quicker, but more accurate using the energy spectrum. There's no ambiguity, it tells you in plain English in the bottom right of the screen what you are looking at. And of course, scanning them is very much quicker unless they happened to be very close to the main star.
The suggestion that the system map tells you the exact position of every body is also (IMO obviously) not correct. Sure, you can see that there are bodies present, and their relationship to other bodies, but the system map is a 2D view of a 3D system, and those bodies could be anywhere in relation to your position in the system.
I guess the suggestion is that because you don't know their relationship to your position (which you didn't with the system map either) and thus have to 'find' them with the FSS that is perhaps more challenging, or more skilled. Personally I didn't find that.
I seem to remember the complaint being tied to being able to select bodies in the system map. Select the ELW, aim ship towards it, in FSS it's straight in front of you. But I'm fine with a system map which isn't interactive that way, and is just a visual representation. In my perfect world the system map and the FSS complement each other without stepping on each others toes. The system map gives you visual clues, if you like the look of them, you use the FSS to find out what's what.
This would lower my frequency of FSS usage, while upping my frequency of finding good stuff with the FSS, thus making the FSS itself a more enjoyable experience. Heck, if such a system would be in place, I might become an FSS white knight myself
Last edited:
That's just misguided fantasy because its quicker to just do it in the fss. You don't need to compromise there. Would take at least twice as long if not more to select something from the system map and point your ship at it.
Also you do this in the bubble all the time, definitely worth trying before calling it a negative god mode. Makes the fss usable!
I agree. But, in case Frontier shares this concern, I'm perfectly happy not to be able to select anything in the system map, until I FSSed it.
However backward it may seem
I do indeed do this regularly, mapping earth-likes in the bubble for their BGS points. I'm not using the FSS to scan the overwhelming majority of course, just spot the high value stuff with the system map & travel to it to map it. If I were to actually travel to a virgin system & find an earth-like or terraformable the simple travel time to get there & back would render any meaningful Cr/Hr calculation meaningless.
I remember that many people got it wrong, or got it only because they gave more than one answer, even though I asked for only one (precisely because of this). However, I can't for the life of me seem to be able to find that thread now, neither via this forum's search nor Google. How odd. (It would help if I remembered the exact name of the thread though.)
And yeah, I don't think anyone would mind it if you couldn't select stuff on the system map until you scanned it with the FSS.
As for targetting stuff, turning your ship to it and then FSS-ing it: sounds good in theory, but in practice, moving the FSS's turret view is faster than the supercruise handling of any ship. Unless your input method's sensitivity is set too low, of course.
Funnily enough, I did exactly that calculation way back when, to compare the profitability of various exploration "styles". The highest was neutron star farming, the second was going through systems and just honking, the third was flying to valuable planets you find and scanning them. How do you calculate Cr / h for these? Simple: you take the average (or median) distance ELWs were in systems (we didn't have nearly as much data then to look at WWTC data separately, so I just assumed that they will be around the same distance, what with the habitable zone), estimate how much time supercruising there would take (thanks to the fuel rats, we have lots of data on that), and there you go.
Of course, Cr / h would have been higher with the FSS even if Frontier gave the old ADS+DSS scan values to the DSS mapping now, what with flying no longer being required. They decided to give the old values to only the FSS's infinite range scan though, and ratcheted up the payouts for flying, so the new values would be much higher.
In this thread, we eventually got a figure of 41 million Cr / h from Allitnil, and that was using pre-discovered ELWs of his (ELWs you discovered before Chapter Four but only mapped now actually pay out more than if you find an entirely undiscovered one) plus the LYR bonus. I don't think you can go much higher than that via exploration.
Also,
Just to make sure, in terms of credits, the FSS provides more per honk than the ADS did. As mentioned before in the thread, the developers originally planned to strike credits from honking only, but then changed their minds, and the way they implemented things, for the simple act of honking and moving on without scanning anything, you get more credits now than before Chapter Four.
This isn't only from the auto-scanned stars (not exactly high value), but also from adding a bonus to the main star depending on how many and what kind of bodies are present.
Not necessarily bad, no. But they are rarely done well either (largely thanks to many time sinks used in MMOs, to get people to spend more time playing in any way reasonably possible), and the FSS wasn't designed and implemented very well either.
Fifteen seconds was also the old time for honking, calling up the system map (= not instant!) and looking it over to see if there might be anything of interest. It was fairly well accepted when calculating time that in a hurry, you could do 45 seconds in systems minimum if you're in a rush, or 1 minute if you account for actually exploring too.
I always wondered though why Frontier didn't change the honk to be faster now, if time was now suddenly much more important in Chapter Four. But it's probably only because they didn't want to change the sound.
I seem to remember the complaint being tied to being able to select bodies in the system map. Select the ELW, aim ship towards it, in FSS it's straight in front of you. But I'm fine with a system map which isn't interactive that way, and is just a visual representation. In my perfect world the system map and the FSS complement each other without stepping on each others toes. The system map gives you visual clues, if you like the look of them, you use the FSS to find out what's what.
This would lower my frequency of FSS usage, while upping my frequency of finding good stuff with the FSS, thus making the FSS itself a more enjoyable experience. Heck, if such a system would be in place, I might become an FSS white knight myself
Yes. A bit of a daft complaint IMO since that would probably take longer than just finding the bodies with the FSS. I think it comes down to a fear that people are going to cherry pick, as if that's not possible using just the FSS.
In any case, I suggested a while ago that there be two 'enhancements' available to the FSS.
1. Provides a non targetable system map of unexplored bodies.
2. Provides a populated nav panel with unexplored bodies that is targetable.
These should provide all the information and gameplay additions that people seem to want. The first would allow us to see anomalies such as GGG and thus choose to stay and investigate further with the FSS, and the second would allow players to target unexplored bodies to fly to them if that is how they preferred to explore.
Edit: These could be mutually exclusive, just in case there's a perception that people might look at the system map, count out the body you are interested in then swap to the nav panel and count down that to be able to target it, point your ship at it and then finally enter the FSS to scan from a distance.
Last edited:
I'm against mutually exclusive. Because I believe both tools can be used in a way that complements each other. I want to use the FSS in a focused way, when the info from the ADS tells me: perhaps you should have a closer look at this system.
They're ebony and ivory
Side by side in perfect harmony
Something something keyboard
Why can't we?
Because a mutually exclusive option is entirely unnecessary...
Unless you somehow believe that the FSS is challenging or difficult to use. The FSS is just a tool to be used if you want to, and as the devs said it would be, it's intuitive, quick and easy to use.
It was never about the time, it was about the fun. The ADS era simply was not for me.
I’d also question the idea that you could check a system map in 15 seconds, but I’ve seen a video of a mouse user checking a system map. In the time it took them to check every body, in VR the cursor would’ve crawled it’s way to the first body out from the star.
Yes. A bit of a daft complaint IMO since that would probably take longer than just finding the bodies with the FSS. I think it comes down to a fear that people are going to cherry pick, as if that's not possible using just the FSS.
I actually tested that in a few pre-explored systems, and it takes significantly longer. You can turn the FSS 180 degrees a lot faster than your ship can in Supercruise.
As long as these are optional enhancements, then I’d have no problem with this. The former would’t be so bad if we could view body data in the targeting panel, but I really don’t want spoilers in the Nav panel.
Edit: These could be mutually exclusive, just in case there's a perception that people might look at the system map, count out the body you are interested in then swap to the nav panel and count down that to be able to target it, point your ship at it and then finally enter the FSS to scan from a distance.
I also tested something similar using pre-explored systems. For single star systems, it’s actually faster to just quickly select bodies out the edge of the star’s habitable zone, than it is to go to the system map first... assuming you’re a VR/HOTAS user.
Bottomline, the way Frontier handled the exploration update is one of missed opportunity.
By removing an essential tool for some explorers, Frontier excluded a portion of explorers from enjoying exploration and caused an artificial rift (which I truly believe only exists in the mind of those seeking to create an us vs them narrative, which by the way has been quite absent in this thread, kudos to all involved) between so called ADS lovers and FSS lovers.
Instead, with a little more care and a little attention to feedback they could have improved the system for all explorers. They claimed they had rooted out 12 types of explorers, and they couldn't please all of them. I call shenanigans. My conclusion from the many ADS/FSS threads is that the two tools can work side by side, do not have to trespass on each other's functionality and the reason we're in the situation we are now is not irreconcilable differences between explorers. The fact we're aiming at each other, instead of the real culprit, is a win for them.
At the end of the day, I cannot believe explorers like to deny other explorers from enjoying exploration. That much of the strife is inherent in the way the discussion is being setup, being influenced by that us vs them mentality. I would much rather I had been posting about what I discovered during my exploration trips in the previous year, than have academic discussions over what could have been.
By removing an essential tool for some explorers, Frontier excluded a portion of explorers from enjoying exploration and caused an artificial rift (which I truly believe only exists in the mind of those seeking to create an us vs them narrative, which by the way has been quite absent in this thread, kudos to all involved) between so called ADS lovers and FSS lovers.
Instead, with a little more care and a little attention to feedback they could have improved the system for all explorers. They claimed they had rooted out 12 types of explorers, and they couldn't please all of them. I call shenanigans. My conclusion from the many ADS/FSS threads is that the two tools can work side by side, do not have to trespass on each other's functionality and the reason we're in the situation we are now is not irreconcilable differences between explorers. The fact we're aiming at each other, instead of the real culprit, is a win for them.
At the end of the day, I cannot believe explorers like to deny other explorers from enjoying exploration. That much of the strife is inherent in the way the discussion is being setup, being influenced by that us vs them mentality. I would much rather I had been posting about what I discovered during my exploration trips in the previous year, than have academic discussions over what could have been.
Last edited:
That's really my issue with the FSS in a nutshell. The minigame of the FSS becomes way too tiresome when it's done too many times per hour, which happens when exploring in Elite. So much so that it's soured me from playing the game at all now because I just can't bear it anymore.
Yes! Whatever players use should be fun for them. It's a game.
Well thank you. I never tested it, because by the time the idea that this was a viable 'exploit' was raised I had quit exploring, but it was certainly obvious to me from my experience with the FSS and knowing how to fly spaceships that it would be a pointless exercise.
And if someone dislikes the FSS so much that they'd rather do that than use it, then that's fine by me.
Of course. I've always been of the opinion that any additional way of seeing information should be optional. There's no need to spoil other peoples enjoyment of the current mechanic, and I would be be very vocally against it if it happened.
I also tested something similar using pre-explored systems. For single star systems, it’s actually faster to just quickly select bodies out the edge of the star’s habitable zone, than it is to go to the system map first... assuming you’re a VR/HOTAS user.
Yes, I do play in VR. Under any circumstances, choosing to use either a system map reveal, or probably even the nav panel is going to be less efficient (if efficiency is what you're after - see point 1!) than just using the FSS which is, and was I am quite sure designed to be, very efficient.
Of course it has value. What a ridiculous thing to say.
That depends on the size of the system. Also, if your ships computer knows the exact precise location of said planet, after clicking on it in the system up, when you open up the FSS logically the FSS should already be aimed at it. There is literally no reason why it shouldn't.