General / Off-Topic The safest place

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Providing actual health insurance instead of a $1200 check that covers less than 1% of the hospital bill for those in ICU for example. But this is going to be a discussion about the usual tropes again, so again: I provided a number of facts relevant to this discussion. No intent to offend anyone. Best of luck to all out there.
Your previous comment was carefully crafted in such a way as to be insulting lolol. I prefer outright aggression to passive aggression:)

No big deal. I just think the constant Trump bashing that goes on here and around the world is actually motivated by hatred and fear of capitalism, and that he represents an existential threat to you because he's the most forceful, effective president we've ever had in that regard. This is literally your last chance.

@askavir I can't answer that question quite yet, I'll elaborate on my view later after work. Let's just say that my bull excrement detectors regarding how this whole thing is being packaged and fed to us, and for what purpose, is clanging a full on alarm.
 
Yes, testing is important, even if you can't test everyone, because it will allow the extent of the problem to be extrapolated...and that's what's being done.

However, detailed surveillance is only practical very early on and contract tracing (outside of what is essentially a statistical sampling, rather than an effort to isolate specific individuals) falls apart when the number of cases and patients outstrips the manpower available to conduct the trace. NYS, for example, has a population of twenty million people and has ramped up the rate of testing from 1k to 16k per day...at the current rate, which is far in excess of anywhere else in the US, it would take four years to test everyone. Testing rates will continue to rise, but there is no believable scenario where the rate of infection doesn't outpace it. We have nearly thirty-thousand confirmed cases and conservative estimates of at least an order of magnitude more infected, both increasing geometrically. To even attempt contact tracing on all of the confirmed cases and you'd need a whole army of interviewers and statisticians, wasting resources that could be better used elsewhere, mostly just to discover that everyone who hasn't been holed up for the last few weeks has been exposed to someone who was contagious.

[...]

Today, Prof. Drosten ( Virologist at Charite, Berlin ) estimates Germany tested about 500.000 (!) people last week . He explains why he has to guess with the localized capability to make, distribute and conduct the tests, as well as getting results . Testing capacity is STILL to increase...and we STILL do surveillance, as much as possible .

As much as possible, every tested confirmed case is

a) a base for a rather complex set of Data ( MOST important aspect of positive testing, you need THAT data to find treatment/vaccine )
b) a starting point for tracing . It is being done here my friend...as much as possible . Because we do EVERYTHING we can to stop this . We are not giving up because "Ah man, it is too expensive..." . If you can not trace every case, trace your Doctors, Nurses, Police and other first responders who test positive . Go from there .
 
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Today in Spain there have been 655 more deaths(4089), and more than 10,000 new infections, the highest number of infections per day so far, and it is still noon, the news says that the number of infections per day has decreased. they're clearly lying because I'm writing it down every day, and I don't think they really know when the highest peak will be of infections / deaths.
US has overtaken Spain today in infections and is approaching Italy.
Before reaching Sunday, even earlier, it will be the country with the most infections in the world, and it does not seem that they are making progress in recoveries like other countries at that point.
Take good care of yourself, American people, things are not looking very good for next week.



Edited: some 5,400 health personnel have been infected.
 
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Today in Spain there have been 655 more deaths(4089), and more than 10,000 new infections, the highest number of infections per day so far, and it is still noon, the news says that the number of infections per day has decreased. they're clearly lying because I'm writing it down every day, and I don't think they really know when the highest peak will be of infections / deaths.
US has overtaken Spain today in infections and is approaching Italy.
Before reaching Sunday, even earlier, it will be the country with the most infections in the world, and it does not seem that they are making progress in recoveries like other countries at that point.
Take good care of yourself, American people, things are not looking very good for next week.



Edited: some 5,400 health personnel have been infected.

This is very saddening .

Stay strong .
 
I honestly doubt it. Capitalism has flaws (the biggest one the fact that it can't sustain itself forever), but so far all alternatives have proven worse at creating wealth, better wages and with it better standards of living, even though nobody likes to admit it.

We're not limited in alternative ideas and solutions to correct the significant flaws in the current system. We are however bound by institutions and organisations with significant vested interests in maintaining the status quo as it works exceptionally well for them, most of the time.

And if they won't do it then that will be their problem. Literally.
 


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...no-better-than-regular-covid-19-care-in-study

Which is why actual trials are needed and banking on highly dubious initial reports constitutes hyping up vague promises of panacea.

Even in the most ideal scenarios, where one or more of these treatments is demonstrated to be broadly effective, expecting this pandemic to be winding down within a few months is a pipe dream.

I have no doubt that most industry that's been suspended will find ways to resume significant production well before the actual COVID-19 pandemic has been resolved, but I'm highly doubtful all the workers that won't be returning will find much solace in that, or that it will constitute a rapid return to normal.

If we had an economic system that worked for the majority of people, then he wouldnt be facing such a massive issue in the first place, and let's face it, he's backed into a corner and has no other alternatives. Even a monkey could pull the right lever in the same situation. Short term profit is king in Capitalism, planning for the future, not so much.

Capitalism won't survive this. And a good thing too.

I honestly doubt it. Capitalism has flaws (the biggest one the fact that it can't sustain itself forever), but so far all alternatives have proven worse at creating wealth, better wages and with it better standards of living, even though nobody likes to admit it.

I contend that traditional capitalism (which generally depends on a nominally free market absent of sweeping, codified bias and corruption that would undermine the principles of free exchange and true competition) does not exist, to any meaningful degree, in the modern world. The bulk of major economies are mixed economies where the lines between the state and corporate spheres have been significantly blurred and public exists as a revenue source and economic hedge for an elite who engage in unbridled nepotism, via governments ruled by them, for their benefit.

Certainly, I agree that we have an economic system that doesn't work for the majority of people and that this system is probably not going anywhere. I just think calling it capitalism is at best a euphemism, and at worst a gross misnomer.
 
Today in Spain there have been 655 more deaths(4089), and more than 10,000 new infections, the highest number of infections per day so far, and it is still noon, the news says that the number of infections per day has decreased. they're clearly lying because I'm writing it down every day, and I don't think they really know when the highest peak will be of infections / deaths.
US has overtaken Spain today in infections and is approaching Italy.
Before reaching Sunday, even earlier, it will be the country with the most infections in the world, and it does not seem that they are making progress in recoveries like other countries at that point.
Take good care of yourself, American people, things are not looking very good for next week.



Edited: some 5,400 health personnel have been infected.

My thoughts are with everyone bearing the brunt of this. The selflessness of all our healthcare workers is truly humbling, for me, to the point of tears. I help train nurses (Education) and we've currently 130 final year NHS nurses waiting to hear what might be asked or requested of them. They don't deserve the maelstrom they're about to walk into after 10 years of austerity and government underfunding. It makes me regularly weep with pride in them and anger at the political class.

Lions led by donkeys.
 
My thoughts are with everyone bearing the brunt of this. The selflessness of all our healthcare workers is truly humbling, for me, to the point of tears. I help train nurses (Education) and we've currently 130 final year NHS nurses waiting to hear what might be asked or requested of them. They don't deserve the maelstrom they're about to walk into after 10 years of austerity and government underfunding. It makes me regularly weep with pride in them and anger at the political class.

Lions led by donkeys.
I hate to be a , but if you're system is so broke then maybe these lions should have gone into government instead, then.
 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...no-better-than-regular-covid-19-care-in-study

Which is why actual trials are needed and banking on highly dubious initial reports constitutes hyping up vague promises of panacea.

Even in the most ideal scenarios, where one or more of these treatments is demonstrated to be broadly effective, expecting this pandemic to be winding down within a few months is a pipe dream.

I have no doubt that most industry that's been suspended will find ways to resume significant production well before the actual COVID-19 pandemic has been resolved, but I'm highly doubtful all the workers that won't be returning will find much solace in that, or that it will constitute a rapid return to normal.





I contend that traditional capitalism (which generally depends on a nominally free market absent of sweeping, codified bias and corruption that would undermine the principles of free exchange and true competition) does not exist, to any meaningful degree, in the modern world. The bulk of major economies are mixed economies where the lines between the state and corporate spheres have been significantly blurred and public exists as a revenue source and economic hedge for an elite who engage in unbridled nepotism, via governments ruled by them, for their benefit.

Certainly, I agree that we have an economic system that doesn't work for the majority of people and that this system is probably not going anywhere. I just think calling it capitalism is at best a euphemism, and at worst a gross misnomer.

I'd agree it's hard to pin down exactly what it is, but I think we all understand the term and broadly what it stands for means and what we recognise by it. I certainly wouldn't put, say, Norway, under the same definition.
 
As interesting as discussions about long term effects of the crisis on our perception of economic systems is; I currently mostly help those (soon to be) affected will have access to healthcare, and in a way that it doesn't bankrupt them and their families.
 
My thoughts are with everyone bearing the brunt of this. The selflessness of all our healthcare workers is truly humbling, for me, to the point of tears. I help train nurses (Education) and we've currently 130 final year NHS nurses waiting to hear what might be asked or requested of them. They don't deserve the maelstrom they're about to walk into after 10 years of austerity and government underfunding. It makes me regularly weep with pride in them and anger at the political class.

Lions led by donkeys.

These years ago there have been big cuts in public healthcare, the worst unemployed have been nurses, and right now they are doubling their shifts (more than 15 hours in a row).

It's funny how last year in my country, some politicians wanted to lower wages precisely to the workers who are doing everything for us today, nurses, delivery people, supermarket checkouts, bus drivers, suburban subway sector ... and those same Politicians today are being attended, in some cases, by the same public health and other services from which they cut expenses.

Here work has been restricted to home for almost 2 weeks, and you need a receipt to be on the street or you will be fined or arrested, so all those people are being considered heroes ATM.
 
You are joking, right?:cautious:

Without any specific exemption, it would be taxable income.

I didn't read the entire relief plan word for word, but I skimmed it and searched for potential tax exemptions related to the payout itself, didn't find any.


Regardless, I'm not terribly critical of the payout...it's not a solution, but it will help, it is largely directed at lower income brackets, and was passed remarkably quickly. It's way better than nothing and considerably better than some initial proposals.

I'd agree it's hard to pin down exactly what it is, but I think we all understand the term and broadly what it stands for means and what we recognise by it. I certainly wouldn't put, say, Norway, under the same definition.

Oh, it might conjure vaguely coherent imagery, but there are are certainly states that most people would think are further from capitalism than Norway that have the same sort of problems as the US that people are blaming on capitalism.

If I were more comfortable trying to reduce things to labels and catchphrases, I might use a term like neofeudalism to describe these systems, but distilling things down that far fails to do justice to reality.

These years ago there have been big cuts in public healthcare, the worst unemployed have been nurses, and right now they are doubling their shifts (more than 15 hours in a row).

It's funny how last year in my country, some politicians wanted to lower wages precisely to the workers who are doing everything for us today, nurses, delivery people, supermarket checkouts, bus drivers, suburban subway sector ... and those same Politicians today are being attended, in some cases, by the same public health and other services from which they cut expenses.

Here work has been restricted to home for almost 2 weeks, and you need a receipt to be on the street or you will be fined or arrested, so all those people are being considered heroes ATM.

And six months after the bulk of the population has been vaccinated, people will start to forget that things like pandemics are even possible and being working to undermine their preparations again.
 
Today in Spain there have been 655 more deaths(4089), and more than 10,000 new infections, the highest number of infections per day so far, and it is still noon, the news says that the number of infections per day has decreased. they're clearly lying because I'm writing it down every day, and I don't think they really know when the highest peak will be of infections / deaths.
US has overtaken Spain today in infections and is approaching Italy.
Before reaching Sunday, even earlier, it will be the country with the most infections in the world, and it does not seem that they are making progress in recoveries like other countries at that point.
Take good care of yourself, American people, things are not looking very good for next week.



Edited: some 5,400 health personnel have been infected.

This is weird.

Says the same number of total deaths, but that it was only '442' today with 656 yesterday? If the link is correct that would be good news, in a painful way?
 
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