I’d like more commanders in the Open

[Cheese Helmet]

Depends on your definititon of 'coordinated actions' to me in a System with billions in population, a handful or even a squadron shouldn't be able to make a difference that affects every player in the game.

How can 'impactful' outcomes not affect every player, even the solo ones who don't give two hoots, is it not reasonable that these 'impactful' outcomes are limited by design to not impinge on others playstyles? Other MMO's are generally run by a handful of egos who have too much impact on other playstyles. If you want that, like I said, go play EVE instead of trying to make ED more generic.

Why shouldnt impactful outcomes affect every player should they run into those impacts?

fdev created the thargoid wars. If they say “hey thargoids are attacking, defend or lose stations” that is exactly what should happen. and so when someone goes to jump into a system where we’ve lost the fight, the impactof that loss should affect them in the stations being destroyed, supercruise being a hostile place, and therefore their plans changed and if attacked their build choice subject to a test of survival.

Or more as a positive example, an explorer finds a system with 3 pristine ringed planets 500ly outside the bubble. Turns in the data. Return in a few months to a new refinery outpost and population of 1000 or so has appeared ina system previously unexplored and uninhabited. This too would impact all players.
Impact can minor or major, but people do want an impact.

If the game is going to be a sim, then actions need to have consequences.

 

[Darth Ender]

you paid for a game that has a shared universe. that implies that the actions of other players DO impact your game whether you want them to or not. How much they impact is totally up to fdev and you're not guaranteed that it can be ignorable or avoidable.

It sounds like what some people would like is a private universe. Unfortunately, the game doesn't give you that. You can choose to instance by yourself, or with others, but your game is shared with everyone else and their actions can be felt. It just hasn't been very effective because fdev created a bubble of systems so close together and have given us jump ranges that are so great that everything averages out and so nothing anyone does in any particular location matters and nothing is ever destroyed and goes away (stations just get damaged and repaired and powerplay never collapses..etc). That's simply choice on fdev's part...not a guarantee based on the game's design.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Youre making the mistake that you are the centre of the universe and you are so wrong, both in RL and in game. Fdev listens to the 90+% who don't want PVP, get over it and stop describing EVE as the model for ED to follow, its not even original and just go play EVE.

Here's the thing though, while I agree with you and understand that the PvP community is a relatively minor percentage of the overall player base, giving them no content and removing the small amount of content they had has a profound effect on the entire playerbase.

Again, the topic of this thread is gankers in Deciat. Two years ago you rarely saw gankers in Deciat because they spent all their time in CG's. Gankers will always go to whatever system has the highest player traffic (see Borann & Shinrarta).

On another point, MANY players that are interested in PvP eventually become gankers because of the lack of any in-game PvP system. They get bored and frustrated and eventually turn their hardpoints on you in you unarmed exploration ship.
I was a prime example of this, I started my pvp career as a police player but after a few months of not being allowed to shoot at anyone I came across, I joined a ganking squadron and started murdering anyone and everyone while taking part in legit PvP fights as well.

Listen, we're not asking for multiple, major PvP updates and content drops for no one but us but maybe a couple of simple content drop to give pvpers at least something to do, like a return of CG's in the bubble, making San Tu an official PvP battleground system with a simple PvP reward mechanic, or, what I'd LOVE to see is a queable PvP matchmaking system just like CQC is now, but with the ability to use our own, engineered ships.
I know for a fact that any of those would drastically decrease the number of gankers in Deciat and throughout the galaxy as well.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

Here's the thing though, while I agree with you and understand that the PvP community is a relatively minor percentage of the overall player base, giving them no content and removing the small amount of content they had has a profound effect on the entire playerbase.

Again, the topic of this thread is gankers in Deciat. Two years ago you rarely saw gankers in Deciat because they spent all their time in CG's. Gankers will always go to whatever system has the highest player traffic (see Borann & Shinrarta).

On another point, MANY players that are interested in PvP eventually become gankers because of the lack of any in-game PvP system. They get bored and frustrated and eventually turn their hardpoints on you in you unarmed exploration ship.
I was a prime example of this, I started my pvp career as a police player but after a few months of not being allowed to shoot at anyone I came across, I joined a ganking squadron and started murdering anyone and everyone while taking part in legit PvP fights as well.

Listen, we're not asking for multiple, major PvP updates and content drops for no one but us but maybe a couple of simple content drop to give pvpers at least something to do, like a return of CG's in the bubble, making San Tu and official PvP battleground system with a simple PvP reward mechanic, or, what I'd LOVE to see is a queable PvP matchmaking system just like CQC is now, but with the ability to use our own, engineered ships.
I know for a fact that any of those would drastically decrease the number of gankers in Deciat and throughout the galaxy as well.

As a person who enjoys PvP too, what made me become the aimless ganker on occasion was the realization the power play, while certainly designed to create teams of players competing against each other, doesn’t actually foster a healthy PvP environment because the actions taken in that mode have no actual greater impact and thus that whole facet of pvpers who looked to it as a source of direction and objectives, were turned away.

I remember the intrigue and excitement of groups when they initially believed the claim of fdev that putting a power into turmoil for a long time would cause its collapse and that larger minor factions could then rise to replace it, only to see the utter dejected disappointment when it was learned all that was a lie.

 

[Brrokk]

I don't buy this "we gank because we're bored". It's the excuse for vandalism in RL and it's weak there. In a game, you can just... play a different game.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

get over it and stop describing EVE as the model for ED to follow, its not even original and just go play EVE.

On a side note, I know this will be an unpopular opinion to many on this forum but, if Frontier came out with a new Elite 5 and almost completely followed the EVE model with the ED galaxy and mechanics, dedicate servers, went full blown MMO and just got rid of the all the solo aspects of the game, they would lose all the solo players and probably many casuals, but they would gain hundreds of thousands of new fans and the game would be far better for it.

In my opinion, the focus on content being for solo and casual players has been Elite Dangerous's biggest downfall since day one.

 

[Bigmaec]

I don't buy this "we gank because we're bored". It's the excuse for vandalism in RL and it's weak there. In a game, you can just... play a different game.

It is though (saying that as a PvPer who usually doesn't gank but is often tempted...)
It's an urge to shoot at things, especially if you like shooting at things.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

I don't buy this "we gank because we're bored". It's the excuse for vandalism in RL and it's weak there. In a game, you can just... play a different game.

It’s the solution to a problem the game has no solution to.

problem: super duper gunship in a game you’ve spent hours andhours grinding to build and you want challenging potential targets to engage that arecapable of critical thinking.

Solutions: powerplay? Nope mode has more or less died and the role your ship would fill is defeated by solo and pg.

Bgs? Too easy and the same issues as powerplay.

cgs? Gone.

that leaves sparring your friends, which is fun but no in game impact leaves it feeling pointless and you learn your friends quickly.

what does that leave? Ganking and piracy. Piracy requires compliance, so that leaves ganking.

Thargoids maybe? But that’s a whole new grind too.
What would you suggest instead?

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

I don't buy this "we gank because we're bored". It's the excuse for vandalism in RL and it's weak there. In a game, you can just... play a different game.

Ok
You can believe whatever you want and stay in your angry little bubble thinking that gankers are just mean hearted people with personal issues if that makes you feel better.
The gankers themselves are telling you they do it cause they're bored. Not sure why you still don't believe it when you're hearing it directly from the source.
My old squadron of 200+ gankers only ganked when weren't taking part in BGS wars, organized PvP battles, ect.

 

[Bigmaec]

I hope you also realize that ganking actively (though inadvertently) creates a kind of "pseudo-shadow server" that was much talked about at the beginning, but was never officially announced. Maybe FDev has realized by now that this isn't necessary at all and the whole thing will take care of itself in time...

I don't understand why you direct that to me?

 

[Brrokk]

It’s the solution to a problem the game has no solution to.

problem: super duper gunship in a game you’ve spent hours andhours grinding to build and you want challenging potential targets to engage that arecapable of critical thinking.

Solutions: powerplay? Nope mode has more or less died and the role your ship would fill is defeated by solo and pg.

Bgs? Too easy and the same issues as powerplay.

cgs? Gone.

that leaves sparring your friends, which is fun but no in game impact leaves it feeling pointless and you learn your friends quickly.

what does that leave? Ganking and piracy. Piracy requires compliance, so that leaves ganking.

Thargoids maybe? But that’s a whole new grind too.
What would you suggest instead?

Yes, but see what you did there?

"... but no in game impact leaves it feeling pointless ..."

I'm pretty sure ganking has no in-game impact. It therefore doesn't even solve the problem you're claiming exists.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

Yes, but see what you did there?

"... but no in game impact leaves it feeling pointless ..."

I'm pretty sure ganking has no in-game impact. It therefore doesn't even solve the problem you're claiming exists.

It has an impact though, be it small and temporary, in the form of your opponent seeing a rebuy if you win, or you seeing one if you lose. Action and consequence. Its also why you’ll see that ganking is one of the last steps a combat player reaches before they ultimately take a break or stop playing all together. And why you see people who do gank ask for content because ganking ultimately isn’t really what they want to be doing.

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

You seem to have a pretty high opinion of so-called "gankers". May I remind you what the unofficial definition of a "ganker" is? If in doubt, look for wikis about gankers or read that:

Urban Dictionary: ganker

None

www.urbandictionary.com

According to this definition, all people who are proud of being a ganker are like someone who's running around happily shouting, "Look what an idiot I am!"

Ok, that's nice.

Not sure where you got that I have a "high opinion" of gankers from. I'm just trying to give some insight into their way of thinking and why they do what they do and what could possibly be done to get them out of systems like Deciat.

I wouldn't say I have any higher of an opinion of gankers than any other type of player in Elite. I just understand them because I used to be one.
I personally don't gank anymore for reasons I've stated in previous comments but I have no problem with gankers and I'm actually glad they exist in this game.

 

[Bigmaec]

Your forum name?
Actually, it's your avatar name that inspired me to this reminder. But like what I already said to Bigmaec, I'm mainly addressing a common notion on the forum that seems to want establish ganking as some sort of honorable activity. I don't care about a certain person, no matter whether ganker or not.

It's no honorable activity, no one says that. But it's neither a crime or several other slurs gankers repeatedly get here...

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Your forum name?
Actually, it's your avatar name that inspired me to this reminder. But like what I already said to Bigmaec, I'm mainly addressing a common notion on the forum that seems to want establish ganking as some sort of honorable activity. I don't care about a certain person, no matter whether ganker or not.

Not honorable but accepted activity. They're just the "bad guys" or "enemies" of the galaxy and there's nothing wrong with what they do. Hating the players and calling them names because of the way they play a video game is wrong however.

Name is old and I kinda like it for it's triggering abilities.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

Your forum name?
Actually, it's your avatar name that inspired me to this reminder. But like what I already said to Bigmaec, I'm mainly addressing a common notion on the forum that seems to want establish ganking as some sort of honorable activity. I don't care about a certain person, no matter whether ganker or not.

Injecting honor or lack there of into a video game is useless endeavor. If it’s not an unintended exploit then it’s honorable. Easy peezy

Now we talk. Accepted by whom? The like minded? It seems you didn't read the quote I offered and now you are trying to redefine this 'title'. That's not how language works.

if you’re in open you’ve accepted it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Injecting honor or lack there of into a video game is useless endeavor. If it’s not an unintended exploit then it’s honorable. Easy peezy

I take it that, on that basis, we'll never hear another complaint about players in Solo and Private Groups affecting the game?

 

[Mohrgan]

Not honorable but accepted activity. They're just the "bad guys" or "enemies" of the galaxy and there's nothing wrong with what they do. Hating the players and calling them names because of the way they play a video game is wrong however.

Name is old and I kinda like it for it's triggering abilities.

That goes both ways. If scorn is innappropriate for the goose, it should be for the gander as well. If you don;t want the PvP crowd to all be washed with the same brush, have the PvP Crowd not wash thier PvE counterpoints the very same way. Each side has a bias about who's actually at fault over the name calling, but we Commanders can see that it goes, equally, both ways.

The only way to get more people into open, is to get more people into what open has to offer. I've been here since launch, and it's been the same thing the whole time. People telling stories about open, for the good, and for the bad. Just accept that you can only expect to play along side those that have the same interests as you. What ever the size of that population turns out to be, we just have to live with it.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

I take it that, on that basis, we'll never hear another complaint about players in Solo and Private Groups affecting the game?

That complaint isn’t on a basis of “honor” it’s on a basis of critiquing game design.

 

[Robert Maynard]

That complaint isn’t on a basis of “honor” it’s on a basis of critiquing game design.

The game design can be critiqued in many ways - the lack of an Open-PvE mode being one of the notable omissions for an MMO.

.... and honour has nothing to do with it according to the post I quoted.

If ganking is to be considered acceptable because the game allows it then affecting the game from Solo and Private Groups must also be as the game allows it.