I’d like more commanders in the Open

[Brrokk]

And as noted they have identified that as a problem. Meaning that a lack of PvP focused content is a problem too, regardless of your smug implication that it’s a waste of time to even consider.

You really think lack of PvP content is the problem? The solution is obvious then: create some. When explorers want content they create something like DW2. People who want tough battles wing-up against Thargoids. Truckers in Ida are repairing stations at an incredible rate. Why are "PvP enthusiasts" the only ones who need their activities to be organised for them?

The answer is, they aren't. PvP players do organise tournaments and teaching opportunities. I used the quotation marks above because they're necessary. The ones we're characterising as gankers, who are reducing the population of Open, aren't looking for PvP. At least, not PvP against capable opponents. The PvP community are right to object to being lumped together with gankers.

 

[Vetinari]

Im bored.
Why?
Theres nobody to shoot anymore.
Why?
All the new players play in solo.
Why?
I shot them when they were still learning?
Yes?
So they now avoid Open where I am?
Yes
Its fdevs fault?
No

 

[Cheese Helmet]

You are wrong in that timeline. PP was designed as you see it, less the PvP opt-in and crimes changes. The whole PP was intended for PvP was a later assertion when the idea of OOPP was first considered. How can you look at the design of PP and find any PvP in it at all? PP was an all inclusive PvE over lay from the beginning.

Any situation in PP mechanics where blowing up another player would have a use, which is a ton, is very clearly where PvP is. If you don’t see it, it’s because you’re refusing to.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

Whether lack of PvP content is enough of a problem to warrant retrospectively PvP-gating base-game content (effectively removing it from console players without premium platform access) is another matter. Noting Sandro's reiteration of the Open Mode Powerplay Bonus (first aired in March'16) as an alternative to Open only in the second Flash Topic.

I’m a console player. The whole “hurr durr if things are in open you’re putting it behind a paywall” is at best a straw man.

by that measure, multi crew and wings already are.

and look at the reaction the compromise got. Anger from everybody vs open only making the people who actually power play pleased.

 

[Mohrgan]

Any situation in PP mechanics where blowing up another player would have a use, which is a ton, is very clearly where PvP is. If you don’t see it, it’s because you’re refusing to.

How many buckets do you fill blowing up another Commander? Show-horning some secondary effect of a ships loss, only reduces the bucket filling of the oposition, it has zero positive effect on your power. If you don;t resort to bucket filling, all of your PvP will still see you lose. That;s how I see PP and it's relationship to PvP.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

Im bored.
Why?
Theres nobody to shoot anymore.
Why?
All the new players play in solo.
Why?
I shot them when they were still learning?
Yes?
So they now avoid Open where I am?
Yes
Its fdevs fault?
No

Try again.

It’s the solution to a problem the game has no solution to.

problem: super duper gunship in a game you’ve spent hours andhours grinding to build and you want challenging potential targets to engage that arecapable of critical thinking.

Solutions: powerplay? Nope mode has more or less died and the role your ship would fill is defeated by solo and pg.

Bgs? Too easy and the same issues as powerplay.

cgs? Gone.

that leaves sparring your friends, which is fun but no in game impact leaves it feeling pointless and you learn your friends quickly.

what does that leave? Ganking and piracy. Piracy requires compliance, so that leaves ganking.

Thargoids maybe? But that’s a whole new grind too.

The “why are people in solo/pg” is also a different issue.
Question:why solo/pg?

answers: I want to play alone or Ive chosen the path of least resistance. The latter being the same reason do money meta activities they don’t actually enjoy.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I’m a console player. The whole “hurr durr if things are in open you’re putting it behind a paywall” is at best a straw man.

Simpler - it's a fact for those who don't have the requisite access and bought the game on the basis of not requiring it to engage in that feature.

by that measure, multi crew and wings already are.

They have been restricted to the multi-player modes since they were introduced - not to a single mode nor retrospectively changed.

and look at the reaction the compromise got. Anger from everybody vs open only making the people who actually power play pleased.

It was lauded in '16 when it was first mooted - however, given the parallel expectations expressed by some that the BGS would necessarily follow Powerplay to becoming Open only, I expect it was overlooked in favour of the bigger prize.

 

[Mohrgan]

Try again.

It’s the solution to a problem the game has no solution to.

problem: super duper gunship in a game you’ve spent hours andhours grinding to build and you want challenging potential targets to engage that arecapable of critical thinking.

<Snipped for brevity>

answers: I want to play alone or Ive chosen the path of least resistance. The latter being the same reason do money meta activities they don’t actually enjoy.

If there were enough people interested in PvP, you'd have all you want. But, it appears there aren't enough for you. That simply can't be helped. You have to make due with the population that supports that play style. Because players can choose how to engage, that doesn't mean it's a bad design. It just doesn't relect your goals. But, you knew that from the start. Complaining that what you bought is acting exactly as it said it would doesn't improve your position.

 

[Robert Maynard]

answers: I want to play alone or Ive chosen the path of least resistance.

.... or simply because Frontier didn't include an Open-PvE game mode for those who don't find PvP to be "fun".

 

[Cheese Helmet]

.... or simply because Frontier didn't include an Open-PvE game mode for those who don't find PvP to be "fun".

The only reason they wouldn’t find it fun is the difficulty. Because besides that one thing, it’s the same mechanics as fighting NPCs

 

[Robert Maynard]

The only reason they wouldn’t find it fun is the difficulty.

Repeating an opinion does not make it a fact..

 

[Cheese Helmet]

If there were enough people interested in PvP, you'd have all you want. But, it appears there aren't enough for you. That simply can't be helped. You have to make due with the population that supports that play style. Because players can choose how to engage, that doesn't mean it's a bad design. It just doesn't relect your goals. But, you knew that from the start. Complaining that what you bought is acting exactly as it said it would doesn't improve your position.

Actually it’s not because there’s a lack of people, it’s because that group of people have very little offered to them, and ganking is the last stop before taking a break or quitting all together.

 

[Cheese Helmet]

Repeating an opinion does not make it a fact..

Show me what part of the statement that the only difference between PvP and PvE combat is maximum potential difficulty is subjective.

 

[Mohrgan]

Actually it’s not because there’s a lack of people, it’s because that group of people have very little offered to them, and ganking is the last stop before taking a break or quitting all together.

What do you suppose should be offered to them? They have everything they need. Get your groups together and put up your dukes. I don't get this needy hand-holding stuffs.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Show me what part of the statement that the only difference between PvP and PvE combat is maximum potential difficulty is subjective.

It disregards the fact that there's a real person in control of the other ship(s) - and that can cause issues for some people. We've also had players with combat related disorders who really enjoyed the game - but would only play Solo. So difficulty is not the only potential reason.

Not every player even wants to engage in combat nor finds avoiding combat to be "fun". Nor do they need to offer themselves as content for other players.

Not that any player needs to justify their mode choice....

 

[Riverside]

The only reason they wouldn’t find it fun is the difficulty. Because besides that one thing, it’s the same mechanics as fighting NPCs

That isn't the only reason. It probably isn't even the main reason

Just have fun playing your own way with those that are willing to play with you & let those that don't play the way they want too.

 

[Mohrgan]

The only reason they wouldn’t find it fun is the difficulty. Because besides that one thing, it’s the same mechanics as fighting NPCs

My main reason is the grind required to be capable of winning. I am experienced in gaming enough to know what level of dedication i would have to reach, to know I would just pass on the whole endeavor. I do Engineer, but I only have the first 5 or 6 Engineers opened. I just didn't care enough about PvP to go through all of that. If I was going to be jumping out of a loosing battle all of the time, I thought I'd just jump out proactively.

Your assumptions about PvEers motivations are something similar to when others say, ganlkers just want to ruin peoples day. That makes you just as onerous as any PvEer.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I think, to address the OPs request it already would help if the silly glorification of gankers would stop and would be replaced by a general notion to make a clear cut between PvPer and gankers by label them what they are: incompetent, unimaginative idiots. It would be naive to expect this would totally eliminate all gankers and the effect would take some time, as the damage is already done. But I see no other way, that's pretty much all we can do. Waiting for a hardcoded solution or even start ganking out of frustration to 'force' FDev to act accordingly is utterly naive and simply not going to anywhere.

Either that, or live with the fact that Open's population will continue to shrink over time. It's up to you, I don't even have a horse in this race. My personal agenda is something completely different. I'd rather have better content for solo players (not necessarily solo players in Solo mode), which basically means I find Open just as boring, especially since I'm not really interested in player-made 'content'. So far I'm creating my own solo content, which makes almost no difference to me in which mode I'm playing. At the moment it's solo again, because I want to leave a little hint to the direction of FDev. Which is probably also completely futile...

Rumour has it that if ever Star Citizen actually turns into a game that is playable, that many players will drop ED like a hot potato and get their jollys in that game instead...
Maybe we should hope that day comes sooner rather than later

Odd, isn't it - that players like yourself, @Riverside, me and a few others I know personally (as I can't speak for anyone whose stance isn't established) are able to 'create' a level of engagement (probably by setting personal goals) in a game that is allegedly lacking content?

I guess that sooner or later the 'bored' players will quit and be more content for that - I'd never consider playing a game that is boring..

 

[Sir Ganksalot]

Im bored.
Why?
Theres nobody to shoot anymore.
Why?
All the new players play in solo.
Why?
I shot them when they were still learning?
Yes?
So they now avoid Open where I am?
Yes
Its fdevs fault?
No

This is so laughable it borders on cringe. Purely a delusional fantasy. There are still thousands of players in open and despite years of the continuous slaughtering of innocent players, open is still heavily populated. If gankers were truly having any effect on the open population Frontier would've done something about it years ago.

 

[Darth Ender]

the doom and gloom of the demise of open has been touted since the game started.

open's issues have never been about not being popular. It's always been a mix of density (way too many places players can be at any given time and only one of you) and all the technical aspects of instancing. Open will be the same as it has always been.. it's not dying. Not any more than the entire game may be.

before mining ...i used to play 100% in open all the time and almost never saw other humans. If you literally avoid the 1-5 systems that might be the system of the week, you are 100% playing a game that is no different than solo.