Combat logging no longer an exploit? * trigger warning *

It is, in properly vague legalese, which is worded so that it can mean almost anything Frontier wants it to.

It should be obvious that using out of game means to preserve in-game assets is a cheat. Yes, plenty of people will still want it spelled out, but you can spell out everything in an EULA, that would take a book length document that would have no utility as an EULA.

It's indubitably your standard EULA copypaste. But you know, they spelled out "scripts" and "external programs". It would make it quite unique to state in the EULA :
"Script, other programs, On/Off switches, unplugging your ethernet or wifi dongle, changing your ethernet properties". :)
 
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Define cheating

One of the dictionary definitions should suffice here...say, acting in an unfair or prohibited manner in order to gain an advantage, or something to that effect. You powered off the system to remove your CMDR from an in-game scenario, which could conceivably have allowed your CMDR to retain significant assets, rather than deal with it in-character, or in one of the two Frontier Kosher out-of-character methods.

Well it's so specific to Elite, they should really point it out. Name me any other game where disconnection is an exploit that wasnt already patched out...

No one is arguing that Frontier's rule enforcement isn't lacking (it's almost non-existent), just that it shouldn't be hard to divine that if you do something that has zero contextual basis, in order to retain in-game assets, it's hard to see how anyone who gave it any thought could see it as something other than cheating via exploit.
 
So during a discussion on another thread it was questions by (i assume) a newer forum member as to weather combat logging was against the rules or simply frowned apon. They were directed to the EULA and terms of service agreement.

However i had a quick skim and could not actualy find a reference that i could conclude covered combat logging.

Then i knew there was a post by sandro many moons ago that directly clarified that it was considered an exploit and was cheating and not alowed. So i tryed to find it and for the life of me i could not.

Eventualy using various anciant art forms of divination i managed to find a threat that referenced the fabled sandro thread..


It was titled ''combat logging:update''
As you will see its been removed.

Then i tryed to find a single official reference to combat logging and the rules around it, and i just cant find a thing..

Have frontier stealth redacted the stance on combat logging?

Given how many new players and forumites we now have.. alot of the sage wisdom and advice known by the veterans has been lost in to the ages it seems and perhaps also by the devs as alot of the old posts seem to have been removed or archived and dont show up on searches.

How are the new pups suposed to know all this legacy info.. or indeed perhaps us old timers are now out of date?

I know clarity and well, any comunication from fev has been in steep decline over the past 2 years.. and it wasnt exactly strong to begin with lol, but perhaps we could get a word on the state of all this.

Alot of what is banded about as common knowledge has become less common of late, and the sources of such knowledge seem to be becoming, more and more obscured.

God i miss the old days or engaging beta dissgussions and live chat streams.

I believe this is the intact post from Sandro you are looking for.
 
I'm not defending combat logging which I'd never did, not even in Solo mode, but until someone shows me clear evidence that FDev ever actually punished anyone, let alone deleted an account due to combat logging, all of these considerations are irrelevant and at best moral. Just as pointless as those who get shot for no reason in Open and then complain about it while swinging the moral hammer. Both sides, although being opposition at first sight, are definitely in the same boat of ridicule. :p

My god Cmdr, you sound like a Goid lover, what what?

Are you in with the enemy, hmmmmm?

We will have none of that that deafest talk around herre, what? No Sir, we will not!

Now be a good Cmdr and jump onboard for the big push, what what.

We will show those Goids what real Cmdrs are made of, what what!

Toodly pipsky
 
No one is arguing that Frontier's rule enforcement isn't lacking (it's almost non-existent), just that it shouldn't be hard to divine that if you do something that has zero contextual basis, in order to retain in-game assets, it's hard to see how anyone who gave it any thought could see it as something other than cheating via exploit.

I'm afraid that if it's not in the EULA, yeah well that's just your opinion, man.

But if you know of like any other game where disconnexion is an exploit that was not patched eons ago, please tell.
 
My personal feeling on combat logging is that it is entirely legitimate; it is a decent strategy.
I also feel that it is cheap; a weak action and an evasion by players of close or equal stature. The qualification here is important.

Let's be clear here: not all of us are entirely fair in our combat - which more or less qualifies as the understatement of the Century.
If I meet a newer player, I will invite combat and offer to improve their skills with practice. It's no fun at all killing someone who CANNOT fight back.
For SOME players - gankers - that IS fun. While I personally feel that is reprehensible, that is how they play the game, and that is entirely acceptable within the framework of the game.
SO - if THAT is acceptable, then SO IS combat logging. CL is the ONE tactic that a newer player can use to save him/herself from needless destruction. Get OUT of there - come back when the cowardly SOB killing you is no longer there.

At my current level, I NEVER combat log; I don't have the need. I will face, fight, kill or fall to ANY player and learn from the experience. But newcomers have NOT had the opportunity and experience to learn tactics, nor have they Engineered. A battle amongst equals is a beautiful thing. A ganker killing a newcomer is murder and should be viewed as such within the game. There is NO honour in killing someone who can't fight back.
Thus - Combat Logging IS a good and legitimate strategy when being forced into a fight you cannot possibly win. Just get out of there and let the wimpy child that attacks small prey go whine.
 
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1to5 RNGneers exploit or station blind spot exploit were very specific to Elite as well but were, as combat logging exploit is, covered by EULA terms. period.

Exploits are not specific to Elite. In all games you can cheat progression or troll others.
But I know of only Elite Dangerous where disconnexion is considered an "exploit". Isnt it worthy of stating that clearly in the EULA?
 
I'm afraid that if it's not in the EULA, yeah well that's just your opinion, man.

It is in the EULA, under broad terms, which evidently are actually being used, at least on occasion, to issue warnings or bans.

But if you know of like any other game where disconnexion is an exploit that was not patched eons ago, please tell.

I don't play many other MMOs, or persistent world games, but even if I had such examples, they'd be irrelevant. Frontier's inability to fix an issue doesn't mean that taking advantage of it is any less an exploit.

Isnt it worthy of stating that clearly in the EULA?

Probably, but they haven't, and it likely doesn't change anything.

What has combat logging to do with Goids, what what.

I'd be surprised if the bulk of combat logging occured in the presence of other CMDRs. If docking computers and toaster racks can 'force' people to do it, Thargoids certainly can.
 
Exploits are not specific to Elite. In all games you can cheat progression or troll others.
But I know of only Elite Dangerous where disconnexion is considered an "exploit". Isnt it worthy of stating that clearly in the EULA?
Disconnexion is not considered an exploit though, unlike combat logging (which has been explained many times and is not "disconnexion"). The EULA is perfectly clear about using exploits.
 
I don't play many other MMOs, or persistent world games, but even if I had such examples, they'd be irrelevant. Frontier's inability to fix an issue doesn't mean that taking advantage of it is any less an exploit.

Well you cant tell the relevancy of what you dont know about.

Engineer exploit got patched. Station dead zone got patched. Obviously they tend to patch out things when it can potentially hurt player retention.
 
As it stands now: combat logging through taskkill or other ways of terminating the process during combat (in all modes, in all combat) is considered a bannable offense. Exiting the game via the menu functions (referring to the 15 second logout timer), however, is completely fine.

Doesn't really change anything in the current hitpoint inflation age but either way: both actions are done by individuals that can't face ingame consequences.
 
Below is FDev's official statement on the topic.

As a direct answer to the OP, and avoiding injecting any personal opinion or derailing the conversation further: more than likely the post in question was just lost when they swapped forums. At one point they did make it very clear on how they felt about it, and unless they actually redact the stance and say "Nvm, we're OK with people doing this", then there is little reason to believe that it has changed. At the very least, if you are inclined to take such an action you should at least be prepared that they may still consider it an exploit and could take action against your account.

Below is the original post:

This is a quick update to let you guys know what we’re looking at regarding the issue of “combat logging”.

For clarity’s sake, “combat logging” is when a Commander ungracefully exits the game (e.g. using ALT + F4 then shutting down the game process) to avoid defeat, destruction and damage.

Commanders might use this exploit the moment they are interdicted or the moment before they are about to be destroyed.

Although this is flagged primarily as a multiplayer concern, the issues (and solutions) apply equally to the single player game.

First things first: we do consider this an undesirable exploit. It’s not “part of the game”.

Because we don’t have an all powerful server running the moment-to-moment game play simulation, there is no infallible arbiter to take control of a player’s ship when they ungracefully exit.

So what we’re doing is logging telemetry that will help us detect when this exploit is explicitly being used.

Right now, all we’re doing (and have already started doing) is looking at and implementing methods of collecting and analysing data.

At some point, however, we will start to take action against Commanders using this exploit. I can only suggest that you should avoid using this exploit if you want to avoid any penalties issued for its use. I'll just repeat: please avoid combat logging - we're taking this issue very seriously.

Now... whether they will actually take action against someone doing it or not is another matter. I imagine that combat logging can seem obvious but be more challenging to prove for the sake of dishing out infractions, as there could be several reasons a "combat log" could happen; this is especially true with the current networking infrastructure. Remember that combat is pretty intense both graphically and network wise compared to most stuff in the game, so they are likely pretty cautious about taking actions in this regard to avoid punishing a player who just has an older computer or internet connection. This is likely why their first response was just to collect data- to try to get a handle on how often it happens and to gather more metrics on how to detect it/distinguish it from other crash scenarios.

This was, however, clarified later to specifically exclude exiting the game via 15 second timer menu:

Hello Commanders!

To clarify: the official stance on exiting the game via the menu, at any point, is that it is legitimate. I suspect at some point we may increase the "in danger" countdown, but for now you just have to wait fifteen seconds.

However, we can't speak for how other Commanders view such actions.

For the record, when we talk about "combat logging" at Frontier, we mean the act of ungracefully exiting the game (either by ALT-F4 type procedures or by cutting the network traffic).
 
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