Question for Open players who don't like PVP/ganking... help me understand

Screemonster

Screemonster
[VR] CaptainPugwash said:
The forums have a LOT to answer for: last christmas I went to the systems around eravate and offered new players LTDs (that I had stolen from NPCs) as a gift. They just had to promise to fight the empire .. :D They were scared but generally stopped and talked, although several ran in panic (I would have done the same)
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oh man, showing up as Mamba Claus and giving the good children presents sounds like a fun time.

The bad children get turned to coal.
 

Jibroni Gibironi

Jibroni Gibironi
[VR] CaptainPugwash said:
Yep, I'm always saying the same old stuff about beefing up high sec security ..
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:unsure:I have my own idea's for exactly how they could do it, but the problem is it would basically require the entire game to go back to the white board because it would require a ton of coding to get it done. If a station is supposed to be a weapons free zone, as of right now there is nothing there stopping a player from disobeying that order beyond small monetary penalties. Its not nearly enough to keep the douchebags in check. If these stations are supposed to be under government control, then they should be heavily protected. The least they can do right now is add sentry guns all around it for one. Anyone having any aspirations of ganking within controlled airspace is just asking to get blasted into pieces. And since we can only hyper jump into one location, they need to add sentry guns at those locations as well.

The military should have that area locked down air tight in case someone wants to cause trouble. Basically, stations and jump points should be heavily defended. And if you are supposed to be transporting a very important type of passenger, like a politician or military personnel, then the stations themselves would realistically have temporary flight restrictions in place, and maybe even a military escort that will rendezvous with you when you jump into the system. The more idea's I think about that would make this game more interesting, the more I just see how little thought actually went into the this games development. They could have done a lot better from the get go, but its probably too late now unfortunately. 😔
 

CaptainPugwash

CaptainPugwash
Jibroni Gibironi said:
:unsure:I have my own idea's for exactly how they could do it, but the problem is it would basically require the entire game to go back to the white board because it would require a ton of coding to get it done. If a station is supposed to be a weapons free zone, as of right now there is nothing there stopping a player from disobeying that order beyond small monetary penalties. Its not nearly enough to keep the douchebags in check. If these stations are supposed to be under government control, then they should be heavily protected. The least they can do right now is add sentry guns all around it for one. Anyone having any aspirations of ganking within controlled airspace is just asking to get blasted into pieces. And since we can only hyper jump into one location, they need to add sentry guns at those locations as well.

The military should have that area locked down air tight in case someone wants to cause trouble. Basically, stations and jump points should be heavily defended. And if you are supposed to be transporting a very important type of passenger, like a politician or military personnel, then the stations themselves would realistically have temporary flight restrictions in place, and maybe even a military escort that will rendezvous with you when you jump into the system. The more idea's I think about that would make this game more interesting, the more I just see how little thought actually went into the this games development. They could have done a lot better from the get go, but its probably too late now unfortunately. 😔
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I don't think you need to change the game too much: the main feature for me should be ATR that follows you from system to system and never leaves you alone, otherwise just increase the cap on player bounties and introduce a galaxy wide bounty board. But if the ATR follows you everywhere you think twice about doing it again.
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
Strange OP.

To me, that's kind of like asking why you'd go outside if you don't want to get shot or, perhaps less dramatically, why you'd go to a pub' if you don't want to get drunk.

Maybe some gamers are such "basement dwellers" that they don't get it but human beings are gregarious social animals.
When you offer human beings a means of interacting with each other, they'll usually take it... unless it's Myspace or Google+

Course, the next question is likely to be "If you don't want PvP combat, why use Open rather than a PG such as Mobius?"
Same reason; to maximise the opportunities for interaction.
If you're going to a pub' to socialise, you're going to pick a busy pub' instead of a quiet one.

As for what sort of interactions you're actually hoping for, the answers are likely to be as varied as the activities within the game.
Personally, I'm a bit of a boyscout and I enjoy assisting other players with whatever they're doing, whether it's trying to unlock stuff, collecting stuff, running missions or trying to locate POIs etc.
 

Jibroni Gibironi

Jibroni Gibironi
[VR] CaptainPugwash said:
I don't think you need to change the game too much: the main feature for me should be ATR that follows you from system to system and never leaves you alone, otherwise just increase the cap on player bounties and introduce a galaxy wide bounty board. But if the ATR follows you everywhere you think twice about doing it again.
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That would be a good idea too. I mean, if there is supposed to be such a thing as an "Advanced Tactical Response" unit, then it should be added in the game as part of the gameplay so we can utilize them when we need them. That along with the addition of military sentry guns at each station and jump point that will blow you into the next week would help keep everyone on their best behavior. (y) (y)
 

Just Paul

Just Paul
Sir Ganksalot said:
Actually, I totally thought you were a ganker too because I saw you at the battle for Riedquat as well. Coming from Xbox, I just assumed everyone that wasn't Spear, was a ganker.
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That was my assumption then I left the safety of carebear heaven, everybody with an FdL was out to get me. Now I know that there are so many blurred lines and good can be evil and evil can be good, or everything in between. Don't judge by a single type of action comes to mind.

Sir Ganksalot said:
My ganking ship, a phantom, has a 2mil bounty on it from just ganking players. I might go fly it past @Webgear someday to make his mouth water.
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I still stand by my statement that most people on the bounty boards with 2+mil bounties are bgs players. My bgs "killer" ship can easily "produce" 90mil of bounties between reloads.
That's why the notion of people with billions of bounties being gankers is so wrong. There may be a few, but the majority kills npc's for a living.

torpedo.jpg

____

A wise man once told me that every group has the right to have outliers. Well it sounds better in German, but I hope the meaning comes across.


Disclaimer: I was painting all day and take no responsibility for incoherent rambling.
 

Danquememe

Danquememe
Stealthie said:
Strange OP.

To me, that's kind of like asking why you'd go outside if you don't want to get shot or, perhaps less dramatically, why you'd go to a pub' if you don't want to get drunk.

Maybe some gamers are such "basement dwellers" that they don't get it but human beings are gregarious social animals.
When you offer human beings a means of interacting with each other, they'll usually take it... unless it's Myspace or Google+

Course, the next question is likely to be "If you don't want PvP combat, why use Open rather than a PG such as Mobius?"
Same reason; to maximise the opportunities for interaction.
If you're going to a pub' to socialise, you're going to pick a busy pub' instead of a quiet one.

As for what sort of interactions you're actually hoping for, the answers are likely to be as varied as the activities within the game.
Personally, I'm a bit of a boyscout and I enjoy assisting other players with whatever they're doing, whether it's trying to unlock stuff, collecting stuff, running missions or trying to locate POIs etc.
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Hi, welcome to the thread. We've spent the last however many pages and thousands of replies discussing these subjects in depth.

First off, I want to agree that you're not wrong to seek social connections. It's a multiplayer game, after all! One cool thing is that chat is shared between all modes, so you can interact with people in Open while you're in Solo and vice versa. This really does give a busy system a "pub" kind of feeling, and sometimes the contents of chat can be pretty entertaining (and sometimes it's kind of cringey, but hey, I guess it's like a pub that way).

In fact, until you've actually added someone to your friends list and can DM them, there is functionally no difference in your ability to communicate with them in ways that don't involve ship-to-ship interaction (combat, or I guess, waggling wings at one another, which I've never, ever seen). So basically, you can get that interaction regardless, and that's cool.

From there, the decision to play in Open and accept everything that it is - as opposed to what many of us wish it might rather be - is one that each CMDR has to make for themselves. Using all the modes is a totally viable and valid strategy and many experienced players do it. There's no need to always play in any particular mode, unless that's what you want.

And it's for this reason that I started the thread - to better understand the kind of PVE co-op things that players were hoping to find in Open. I was already familiar with the PVP kinds. There are a lot of good responses in here on the subject, and I - and maybe some other people - have learned a lot from it. As a new player, it was nice to see those responses, as they help expand my understanding of the game.

So, anyways, yeah - finding friends in this game makes it a lot more fun. There are a lot of ways to do that, and they mostly aren't mode-limited, insofar as chat is pan-mode. And that's cool!
 

Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii

Just Paul

Just Paul
Mine is called "Space Dorito". Somebody called it that because of the yellow paint and it stuck. The Sidewinder squad led to one of my longest co-op plays with a random player we met. I was running mission support for him and we did lots of other stuff together over the months. Unfortunately he stopped playing a few months ago. Ed you will not be forgotten.
 

Phisto Sobanii

Phisto Sobanii
Paul Smith the 3rd said:
Mine is called "Space Dorito". Somebody called it that because of the yellow paint and it stuck. The Sidewinder squad led to one of my longest co-op plays with a random player we met. I was running mission support for him and we did lots of other stuff together over the months. Unfortunately he stopped playing a few months ago. Ed you will not be forgotten.
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Awe. :(

I remember Ed. Poor kid took like a bunch of missions and was getting griefed by mission NPC Anacondas. Reapers to the rescue!

No, really, we saved his bacon and covered him all the way into Colonia.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Idiot_Savant said:
I thought Spear did this. Charging in on their White FDLs and rescuing the lawful maidens in distress? That's what I've heard....
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AFAIK Spear aren't a BGS group, although some of them may have their own factions unconnected to Spear. They work with BGS groups though, I have worked with some of their team.

As with many groups most are good people, and only the extreme views of some create issues for others. I wish more players would see the benefit of gang warfare & attempting to create police states rather than simply poking fun because they are an opposing force.
 

Leper Messiah

Leper Messiah
Well I've had a long hard think overnight and my conclusions will not please some, I tried to understand the griefer mentality, tried my hardest to find some semblance of decency to shine through the crud. It is there in many and that's a good thing, but for a few it's not there at all....and that's not good.

I hear often that the PvP people want the "challenge" of fighting a human oppenent because the Ai is predictable. That's understandable but the more I read of threads like this I see a common dark cloud and this is the part people won't like, a lot of you are bullies, I'll explain my reasoning (and yes there's the caveat of BGS and PvP, but even then communication to explain "why" would be that sliver of light in the cloud of murk):

It's about having power over another person, if it was about "challenge" you would not attack weaker targets.

every time you attack a weaker target for no other reason than "your" fun you are a bully
every time you say you don't care about your target you re-inforce the fact you are a bully.
if you enjoy the "salt" you are 100% a bully.

There's 2 types of bully IMO, those who were bullied themselves so have learnt to bully to try and feel better, they deserve a bit of pity. Then you have those who were never bullied and just enjoy the power over another person, it's how they get their kicks and fun......those types are truly repugnant IMO in all walks of life and thankfully rare. And before armchair psychologist read the internet and debunk my theory I have a counter for that. Make sure you read about "adult bullying". Also a one off reaction to being bullied is not "bullying", If it's pre-meditated behaviour it's bullying if it's a reaction then nope sorry. The defining element of what marks a bully is they are the instigators of negative social interaction. Fire the first shot and you're the bully in the vast majority of cases (not 100%, some outlying reasons should be taken into account, but if it's sustained behavioural traits displayed again and again and again then yup...bullying).

My own personal caveat to all this is I do agree that as the game stands this is how it is. It's FDs fault for designing the game this way and being so naive to think things like this wouldn't happen, and if it's what they want they they are complicite in the bullying behaviour.

I read it earlier in the thread and it's a simple concept that sums things up, it may be how the game is designed, it may be how the rules are but when it boils down to it......"It's just not cricket". If some of you can't understand that simple concept then it's a prety good sign you're a bully at heart.

If all you consider is "your" fun and enjoyment even at the expense of others in a game where combat is NOT the main focus (in principle) then you are a bully. So no more "but COD, but (insert MP name of game 99-100% focussed on combat here) responses please...not the same thing at all.

For the third (or is it fourth?) time I am going to vow to never get involved in a PvP thread. Hopefully I've finally learnt a lesson and this will be the last time. Sorry if I trod on some toes, thing is "I care" thus I'm a tad depressed this morning. :(
 

ethelred

ethelred
I'm genuinely sorry you see things this way @Leper Messiah .

I play a lot of games, both online and tabletop and I have to tell you that not once I have felt like a bully, considered myself a bully or indeed been perceived as a bully when I have attacked a weaker player.

As an armchair psychologist of repute I would say, and perhaps you would agree, that you don't have the right mentality for competitive online games.

It is, after all, a game about imaginary spaceships.

Fly safe.
 

Riverside

Riverside
The school playground dynamics can be applied to many walks of life, I look at (IRL) international politics the same way.

Bullys are a thing, but those people are not only defined by that one feature of their personality, they do other things too & different people see different slices of their persona.

I don't attack others (usually, without good reason), but I also do not generally shy away from confrontation. A bully will hopefully back off & find an easier target, a motivated aggressor with intent may escalate. So I end up in conflicts with people & groups that are engaging, and mere bullies thinking I am a soft target generally find something easier to focus their attention on.

I try to encourage those that others perceive as bullies to defend something too, if only so they can get the opportunity to learn what it is like to be attacked themselves, because attacking (or being attacked) with nothing to lose is shallow & not engaging to me.
 

Deleted member 192138

D
Leper Messiah said:
Well I've had a long hard think overnight and my conclusions will not please some, I tried to understand the griefer mentality, tried my hardest to find some semblance of decency to shine through the crud. It is there in many and that's a good thing, but for a few it's not there at all....and that's not good.

I hear often that the PvP people want the "challenge" of fighting a human oppenent because the Ai is predictable. That's understandable but the more I read of threads like this I see a common dark cloud and this is the part people won't like, a lot of you are bullies, I'll explain my reasoning (and yes there's the caveat of BGS and PvP, but even then communication to explain "why" would be that sliver of light in the cloud of murk):

It's about having power over another person, if it was about "challenge" you would not attack weaker targets.

every time you attack a weaker target for no other reason than "your" fun you are a bully
every time you say you don't care about your target you re-inforce the fact you are a bully.
if you enjoy the "salt" you are 100% a bully.

There's 2 types of bully IMO, those who were bullied themselves so have learnt to bully to try and feel better, they deserve a bit of pity. Then you have those who were never bullied and just enjoy the power over another person, it's how they get their kicks and fun......those types are truly repugnant IMO in all walks of life and thankfully rare. And before armchair psychologist read the internet and debunk my theory I have a counter for that. Make sure you read about "adult bullying". Also a one off reaction to being bullied is not "bullying", If it's pre-meditated behaviour it's bullying if it's a reaction then nope sorry. The defining element of what marks a bully is they are the instigators of negative social interaction. Fire the first shot and you're the bully in the vast majority of cases (not 100%, some outlying reasons should be taken into account, but if it's sustained behavioural traits displayed again and again and again then yup...bullying).

My own personal caveat to all this is I do agree that as the game stands this is how it is. It's FDs fault for designing the game this way and being so naive to think things like this wouldn't happen, and if it's what they want they they are complicite in the bullying behaviour.

I read it earlier in the thread and it's a simple concept that sums things up, it may be how the game is designed, it may be how the rules are but when it boils down to it......"It's just not cricket". If some of you can't understand that simple concept then it's a prety good sign you're a bully at heart.

If all you consider is "your" fun and enjoyment even at the expense of others in a game where combat is NOT the main focus (in principle) then you are a bully. So no more "but COD, but (insert MP name of game 99-100% focussed on combat here) responses please...not the same thing at all.

For the third (or is it fourth?) time I am going to vow to never get involved in a PvP thread. Hopefully I've finally learnt a lesson and this will be the last time. Sorry if I trod on some toes, thing is "I care" thus I'm a tad depressed this morning. :(
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Haha ship go boom 🥳
 
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