VR support 'not at launch' for Odyssey

[VR Mr Teatime]

This is the circle that the experi branch attempts to square.

I have thought on your initiative many times and even drafted a reply of support in your thread, but from my industry experience you have a not zero, but very close to it, chance of getting what would be a dedicated VR fork of the ED codebase compiled. From a publisher's perspective this is a separate SKU, which would need its own cost base and maintenance going forward and should for any "proper publisher" be assessed against potential revenue generation i.e. it would need to commercially stand on its own legs (there's a more vulgar business term but I've had one official warning in this thread already).
So whilst I don't think VR is at the 1.9% prima facia population in ED terms as Steam suggests, I do think its somewhere in the 170K to 340K user population i.e. not big enough to be a SKU in itself, but big enough to potentially damage the chances of the main SKU when its launched.
VR's re-enablement and any definitive statement one way or another is therefore being hedged against whether the risk of sales damage is worthwhile doing something about or not.

 

[VR Golgot]

I have thought on your initiative many times and even drafted a reply of support in your thread, but from my industry experience you have a not zero, but very close to it, chance of getting what would be a dedicated VR fork of the ED codebase compiled. From a publisher's perspective this is a separate SKU, which would need its own cost base and maintenance going forward and should for any "proper publisher" be assessed against potential revenue generation i.e. it would need to commercially stand on its own legs (there's a more vulgar business term but I've had one official warning in this thread already).
So whilst I don't think VR is at the 1.9% prima facia population in ED terms as Steam suggests, I do think its somewhere in the 170K to 340K user population i.e. not big enough to be a SKU in itself, but big enough to potentially damage the chances of the main SKU when its launched.
VR's re-enablement and any definitive statement one way or another is therefore being hedged against whether the risk of sales damage is worthwhile doing something about or not.

Cheers for the insight.

Yeah it’s absolutely a long-shot. I still think it’s got a few things going in it’s favour though, cumulatively

• Minimal dev costs & resourcing requirements (compared to a full VR job)
• EDVR ownership being very likely higher than Steam’s 1.9% (as oft discussed in this thread)
• FDev’s possible sense of 'fair play' (& openness to damage limitation) regarding not leaving long-term Cmdrs in the lurch if avoidable. (IE they could decide to do it on a no/low ROI basis. That is within their power as self-publishers, even as an AIM-listed one. And/or they could still flip towards a placatory act if they thought it would capture lost EDVR revenue.).

The potential costs of running an experimental branch have always been one of the big question marks though, and I’m intrigued to hear it could be treated as an SKU. (I would have thought that would be reserved only for an individually marketed product).

 

[zimms]

[...]
You clearly don't understand making stuff up just for the DOOM!.

Frontier are currently looking into it and don't know themselves what the result will look like. It's simply not true to claim currently that VR inside ships will still be part of Odyssey (although it's confirmed to stay for Horizons no matter what).

But instead of admitting just once that you were wrong, you grasp at a straw man and get personal. No need to insinuate I'm a doomsayer.

You're the one making stuff up in this case.

 

[Stigbob]

Frontier are currently looking into it and don't know themselves what the result will look like. It's simply not true to claim currently that VR inside ships will still be part of Odyssey (although it's confirmed to stay for Horizons no matter what).

I didn't claim it would be.

But instead of admitting just once that you were wrong, you grasp at a straw man and get personal. No need to insinuate I'm a doomsayer.

You're the one making stuff up in this case.

Talking of making stuff up .

Are you quoting the wrong person ?.

 

[thistle]

I'd say they are misleading in order to avoid confrontation. Based on their commitment and scope, I think the chance that VR will be added is marginal.

I personally suspect we might get flying VR and deactivated headset for FPS at some point, purely to try and help the VR community. We will see. I don't buy the idea they are lying to us about trying. They just wouldnt have said a thing, or even more likely confirmed it was never happening.

 

[thistle]

The way I'm looking at it is that not including VR in Odyssey is not like an "oops I forgot to pick up a pint of milk at the shops" kind of goof, it's a decision that was made ages ago, and we appealed the decision a couple of months ago, and we still don't have an answer.

Because they are clearly looking at it. How do I know? It's what they've said.

Is there something about fdev that means we must believe the opposite of what they say? That's odd.

 

[thistle]

I dare them, double dare them, to prove Optimal99 and me wrong by making a firm statement on the matter. In the interim, just in case, I'll go look up wine suggestions for accompanying humble pie...

I almost want them to just come out and say, okay, if that's your attitude, we won't bother.

 

[zimms]

Talking of making stuff up .

Are you quoting the wrong person ?.

You can click the quote links, you know? Are you seriously claiming you never wrote the part I quoted?

 

[thistle]

And to be clear, I'm not claiming they WILL do VR. I'm saying some of you are making assumptions and demanding concrete statements which, if true or if they acceded to your demands, would mean you are accusing them of lying.

It's just weird.

Just calm down and find something else to do for a few weeks lol.

 

[Stigbob]

Because they are clearly looking at it. How do I know? It's what they've said.

Is there something about fdev that means we must believe the opposite of what they say? That's odd.

Yep I wouldn't even consider buying stuff from a company I though were dodgy, I'd just vote with my wallet and take my custom elsewhere. <cough>star citizen<cough>.

Not that FDEV are lying some people just don't like that they've been honest about no VR at launch for Odyssey (currently).

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

I almost want them to just come out and say, okay, if that's your attitude, we won't bother.

By any means they are not doing social community service through VR support, but business. They just happen to see more $$$ in FPS, hey, they may replace CQC with battle royale.
And that's OK, they just need to be upfront about it.

Because they are clearly looking at it. How do I know? It's what they've said.

Is there something about fdev that means we must believe the opposite of what they say? That's odd.

Uh, the, have a pretty long list of 'looking at it', especially if we consider the kickstarter promises/vision. They are not lying, they are only being dishonest/misleading.

 

[Stigbob]

Frontier have had to deal with forum meltdowns in the past when they have given vague statements on game mechanics or future content.

If they give concrete assurances or vague statements the end result is always the same on these boards.

True, some people even condemn them for announcing an announcement whilst angrily demanding more information.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

You are one end user out of millions of copies sold, I think you vastly overestimate your influence on the games development company. Calling them names because they haven't addressed your personal concern is pretty much a guarantee they'll not bother to communicate with you.

I don't overestimate my worth, I know I'm just four unit sales (+ a rake of merch) in ~4million, but even with all that merch I'm only like 0.0001% of their market, but by being one voice in many adds amplitude, I keep having images of 'Borg "resistance is futile" chanting but saying "VR is essential, headlook only is acceptable".

Giben I'm rather vociferous, and a lot of my comments pick up multiple likes, and those likes are effectivly meaning when I say something like "Frontier! Just grow a pair and tell us what your decision is!" and someone likes the post, they are endorsing my comments, effectively as good as saying "hear hear", or "This". So sure, I'm not an "influencer" with half a million subscribers, but a lot of what I say is echoed by others but I'm not the crazy old man at the street corner with a "the end is nigh" sign who everyone ignores.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

@thistle, I've read all the toing and froing you've had in the recent posts about accusing frontier of lying, all I'm going to say is they don't have a good track record of getting around to doing something about those things they "are looking into", and ironic as it may seem, I "want to believe" them, but their lack of transparency and their track record with similar issues makes it very very hard to do so. Although, it is one of the main reasons I'm still on this forum, I'm here firstly to keep kicking up a hoohah about VR to try and "maintain sustained pressure" on them to do something, and secondly looking for a glimmer of hope, something from the company that "we can take to the bank", an absolute statement, not an evasively worded deflection.

 

[VR Golgot]

Uh, the, have a pretty long list of 'looking at it', especially if we consider the kickstarter promises/vision.

Umm, they are about to drop a Legs + Atmos-lite DLC in fairness

—

I do agree with Thistle overall on this. The presumptions that EDO VR is definitely dead are excessive. (And the corollary view that any FDev statement suggesting possible future VR support is therefore a lie / deceptive, is doubly daft).

Yes, it may well not happen. And yes they’re clearly hedging. But that’s not the same thing.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Would rather have you on side, sure

You're just saying that, tell him the truth! As a console scrub he's not entitled to slag off members of the PC master-race

I bang on about this stuff because there’s no point in the VR crowd hankering after deeply unlikely outcomes. We need to narrow down to simply improbable ones instead

I seen someone DEMANDING EDO-VR be just like Alyx, then Obsidian Ant made a video on the same theme suggesting EDO-VR would need to be benchmarked against Lone Echo, Boneworks and Alyx - to which my inner voice, well one of them at lease was screaming "Shut the Frack UP!!!"

Like you I've tempered my expectations, looking to what we could likely get them to make, rather than what would be "abzoloot bestest evar", and I'm pretty cool with the idea of a fairly basic FPS with VR headlook gamepad/KBAM contols and a few copy pasta VR creature comforts from the SRV, such as maintain horizon, blackout on silly rolls etc would work for us and be feasible for them.

 

[Stigbob]

I don't overestimate my worth, I know I'm just four unit sales (+ a rake of merch) in ~4million, but even with all that merch I'm only like 0.0001% of their market, but by being one voice in many adds amplitude, I keep having images of 'Borg "resistance is futile" chanting but saying "VR is essential, headlook only is acceptable".

It seems to me the only thing you are resisting is an understanding of what other people are saying. There's nothing to resist.

"Not at launch" doesn't mean it'll never happen. The people pointing that out are not trying to change anything or pushing any agenda they are simply pointing that out.

I'm rather vociferous, and a lot of my comments pick up multiple likes, and those likes are effectivly meaning when I say something like "Frontier! Just grow a pair and tell us what your decision is!" and someone likes the post, they are endorsing my comments, effectively as good as saying "hear hear", or "This". So sure, I'm not an "influencer" with half a million subscribers, but a lot of what I say is echoed by others but I'm not the crazy old man at the street corner with a "the end is nigh" sign who everyone ignores.

I tend not to put much faith in the meaning of likes, I find them inconvenient because I feel I have to go find a post by the person giving the like and return it. Which can be tough or you wind up liking stuff you actually disagree with half the time. Logging in to a load of them is a pain.

DOOM ! and salt gags invariably get likes. Except when they are in the patch notes, then it just causes another meltdown.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Umm, they are about to drop a Legs + Atmos-lite DLC in fairness

—

I do agree with Thistle overall on this. The presumptions that EDO VR is definitely dead are excessive. (And the corollary view that any FDev statement suggesting possible future VR support is therefore a lie / deceptive, is doubly daft).

Yes, it may well not happen. And yes they’re clearly hedging. But that’s not the same thing.

I genuinely think that it is incredulous that they haven't made the decision yet, and as such I agree with optima99 in that I am growing to suspect the evasive statements and lack of an affirmation is merely a means to avoid conflict with the players. From a marketing point of view it would make sense to keep string us along so that in the pursuit of information about VE we end up following the hype train towards launch, and the purdy shiny new things win us over. Even if 1/4 of VR players ended up overcoming their No VR No Buy vows & bought odessy because it looked so damned good (even without VR), that's still potentially ~£4m in sales.

 

[epoch5]

There are going to be no straight answers from FD till closer to release. You should no this by now. Devs treat this stuff like military secrets. I believe nothing of what they say right now.

 

[VR Golgot]

I seen someone DEMANDING EDO-VR be just like Alyx

Sure, but two wrongs don’t make a right and all that. There are excessive expectations out there for both a maximum dev version and a minimalist one. Both ends of the scale are daft