General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Next you need to pay more TAX because you’re working from home

Staff who work from home after pandemic 'should pay more tax' | Working from home | The Guardian

Deutsche Bank report argues that the proceeds should help lower-paid workers

amp.theguardian.com

What's this about?

 

[lysan]

What's this about?

If you work from home due to COVID they want to TAX you more, because reasons

 

[Morbad]

If you work from home due to COVID they want to TAX you more, because reasons

That's not quite what the article states.

Deutsche Bank is arguing that those who voluntarily work from home are saving money that would otherwise contribute to the economy and infrastructure, and are proposing a 5% tax (on employers who use remote labor, with no provisions for these workers to come in in person, or on workers directly that can report in person, but do not) to replace lost revenue and subsidize those who must work in person.

The proposed tax isn't for those working from home because they have been advised to during a pandemic.

Download Pdf

 

[Patrick_68000]

If you work from home due to COVID they want to TAX you more, because reasons

It's absurd.

In France, the government is forcing companies to telework from home when possible during the Covid.

They do controls in companies.

 

[Patrick_68000]

That's not quite what the article states.

Deutsche Bank is arguing that those who voluntarily work from home are saving money that would otherwise contribute to the economy and infrastructure, and are proposing a 5% tax (on employers who use remote labor, with no provisions for these workers to come in in person, or on workers directly that can report in person, but do not) to replace lost revenue and subsidize those who must work in person.

The proposed tax isn't for those working from home because they have been advised to during a pandemic.

Download Pdf

The telework when it is possible at home is the future.

Excellent for the planet and human constraints (daily travel, stress, diseases, pollution, accidents etc ...).

 

[Morbad]

The telework when it is possible at home is the future.

Excellent for the planet and human constraints (daily travel, stress, diseases, pollution, accidents etc ...).

Yes.

 

[lysan]

That's not quite what the article states.

Deutsche Bank is arguing that those who voluntarily work from home are saving money that would otherwise contribute to the economy and infrastructure, and are proposing a 5% tax (on employers who use remote labor, with no provisions for these workers to come in in person, or on workers directly that can report in person, but do not) to replace lost revenue and subsidize those who must work in person.

The proposed tax isn't for those working from home because they have been advised to during a pandemic.

Download Pdf

Ahh C'mon man! here is the deal, they want to TAX people who works from home, period! my answer kick rocks!

 

[Arry]

That's not quite what the article states.

Deutsche Bank is arguing that those who voluntarily work from home are saving money that would otherwise contribute to the economy and infrastructure, and are proposing a 5% tax (on employers who use remote labor, with no provisions for these workers to come in in person, or on workers directly that can report in person, but do not) to replace lost revenue and subsidize those who must work in person.

The proposed tax isn't for those working from home because they have been advised to during a pandemic.

Download Pdf

No pandemic profiteers tax then?

Deutsch Bank 3rd Quarter profits. Approximately 309 million euros.
https://www.db.com/ir/en/download/Release_Q3_2020_results.pdf

"..and subsidize those who cannot work from home." Of course they will. OK, Germany handles it people a little differently, to the UK. But if that was told to the UK public, to soften the new tax blow; it would just be spin.

 

[Morbad]

No pandemic profiteers tax then?

Deutsch Bank 3rd Quarter profits. Approximately 309 million euros.
https://www.db.com/ir/en/download/Release_Q3_2020_results.pdf

"..and subsidize those who must work from home." Of course they will. OK, Germany handles it people a little differently, to the UK. But if that was told to the UK public, to soften the new tax blow; it would just be spin.

"...those who can't work from home"*

Deutsch Bank wouldn't be a direct beneficiary of this tax. Indeed, they'd likely be footing a proportionally larger bill if something like it were implemented. This would cost them in the short to mid-term.

The Deutsch Bank proposal is what they say it is...a plan to keep "democratic capitalism" (a rather euphemistic phrase) afloat by discouraging a massive progressive shift toward policies that would threaten their long term business goals. They want governments to tax those who can afford to pay, without stepping on the toes of those who can afford to not pay, to try to appease those who cannot afford to pay.

And yes, it a load of spin, but it's more farsighted than you imply and it has little to do with the pandemic itself. COVID-19 has simply made longstanding problems with the current status quo that much more apparent. Those who profit off that status quo will need to address these to continue to profit in the long term. No rich banker wants a labor revolt or socialist revolution.

 

[Arry]

"...those who can't work from home"*

Deutsch Bank wouldn't be a direct beneficiary of this tax. Indeed, they'd likely be footing a proportionally larger bill if something like it were implemented. This would cost them in the short to mid-term.

The Deutsch Bank proposal is what they say it is...a plan to keep "democratic capitalism" (a rather euphemistic phrase) afloat by discouraging a massive progressive shift toward policies that would threaten their long term business goals. They want governments to tax those who can afford to pay, without stepping on the toes of those who can afford to not pay, to try to appease those who cannot afford to pay.

And yes, it a load of spin, but it's more farsighted than you imply and it has little to do with the pandemic itself. COVID-19 has simply made longstanding problems with the current status quo that much more apparent. Those who profit off that status quo will need to address these to continue to profit in the long term. No rich banker wants a labor revolt or socialist revolution.

Corrected. My bad.

If you didn't catch it before, I feel that a one off pandemic profiteers tax, should be issued to help pay for all of this. Most of the population, has lost money during this crises and a few, have vastly profited because of the current situation. Yet, the bill, when it comes, will fall on the masses, those that have already suffered, financially and in many other ways. Major companies are laying off thousands of staff, not because they 'have to', but because it reduces the outgoings and makes for a better bottom line, for their investors.

 

[Morbad]

Corrected. My bad.

If you didn't catch it before, I feel that a one off pandemic profiteers tax, should be issued to help pay for all of this. Most of the population, has lost money during this crises and a few, have vastly profited because of the current situation. Yet, the bill, when it comes, will fall on the masses, those that have already suffered, financially and in many other ways. Major companies are laying off thousands of staff, not because they 'have to', but because it reduces the outgoings and makes for a better bottom line, for their investors.

Something like that probably isn't going to fly because the current system--that "democratic capitalism" (i.e. privatized gains, socialized losses, with just enough concessions to a welfare state to keep the peasants from revolting) Deutsch Bank mentions in their concept paper--has been built by, and for the benefit of, those profiteers. Nor do I think a one off tax would correct any underlying issues with the system, even if it could be implemented.

I don't think there is any easy way out of this.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Here is an account from a Pfizer trial volunteer.

Pfizer vaccine-trial participant reveals what it's like to volunteer for research that helped create the first effective COVID-19 vaccine

"It's a monumental opportunity to be able to help your fellow citizens," Jenny Hamilton, a security officer in Atlanta, said.

www.businessinsider.com

Looks like some rough side effects for a couple days. That second dose is going to have some dropout.

Edit:
Just want to note the excellence of humanity in the ones that volunteer.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Here is an account from a Pfizer trial volunteer.

Pfizer vaccine-trial participant reveals what it's like to volunteer for research that helped create the first effective COVID-19 vaccine

"It's a monumental opportunity to be able to help your fellow citizens," Jenny Hamilton, a security officer in Atlanta, said.

www.businessinsider.com

Looks like some rough side effects for a couple days. That second dose is going to have some dropout.

Edit:
Just want to note the excellence of humanity in the ones that volunteer.

These people have a great dedication to society.

For my part, I don't like the people enough to do the same.

Which makes me say that these people who "sacrifice themselves" for the others, do it with a little egocentrism and seeking gratification for themselves.

 

[Morbad]

These people have a great dedication to society.

For my part, I don't like the people enough to do the same.

Which makes me say that these people who "sacrifice themselves" for the others, do it with a little egocentrism and seeking gratification for themselves.

Volunteers are certainly needed for these things, and we all ultimately benefit from them, but these people are compensated for their time and trials like these aren't particularly risky. Hell, being part of a trial where one only has a 50% chance of getting an unproven vaccine still means they have better odds than the general populace.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

... trials like these aren't particularly risky....

I always forget that this isn't one of the medical forums. (That is a compliment, Cmdrs.)
Should have pointed out the stuff below, instead of assuming everyone can see it. Your arguments are logical as always, and generally valid I would estimate. In fact, I concede. The following is just about the volunteer, because it needs be said.

It is my fault for not pointing out this stuff up front. The average well read person isn't trained to spot the connections.

Well, this trial involves using mRNA, instead of a standard protein type vaccine.
That increases the risk of autoimmune conditions. Like multiple sclerosis, or systemic lupus erythematosus. And those are very very bad.

This volunteer, Jenny, has TWO prexisting autoimmune conditions going in.
She has Hashimoto's thyroiditis. And she has asthma, a recent addition to the autoimmune list. But she's doing it anyway, most likely aware of the issue, (or why mention she has these problems? )

The situation is analogous to offering alcohol to a man with a bad liver. Or telling somebody with an osteoporotic backbone to do some falls. This is not the kind of risk we would countenance in our families.

Maybe it will be OK. Maybe it will become a cautionary tale. But if you have an autoimmune issue too, this is how we are going to find out how safe that vaccine is. And it could well maim, or kill Jenny. Maybe take out her kidneys.
She certainly doesn't deserve that.

So I judge her knowledge of the stakes to be as good as her bravery. She is the precise opposite of any antivaxxer waste of skin. Like a certain Lion, we all know.

 

[Morbad]

I always forget that this isn't one of the medical forums. (That is a compliment, Cmdrs.)
Should have pointed out the stuff below, instead of assuming everyone can see it. Your arguments are logical as always, and generally valid I would estimate. In fact, I concede. The following is just about the volunteer, because it needs be said.

It is my fault for not pointing out this stuff up front. The average well read person isn't trained to spot the connections.

Well, this trial involves using mRNA, instead of a standard protein type vaccine.
That increases the risk of autoimmune conditions. Like multiple sclerosis, or systemic lupus erythematosus. And those are very very bad.

These are phase III trials with thousands of people getting a vaccine. If the risk of these conditions were high, they never would have made it to human testing at all.

The magnitude of an ill-effect is only part of risk. The odds of that negative experience occurring are a big part of the equation. If the result of a screw up is likely to be fatal, but the odds of it happening are tiny, I'm going to call that low risk. The same rationale is why I take the risks posed by COVID-19 so seriously...the odds of me dying from it are extremely small, but the odds of severe case (~10%) combined with the odds of lingering symptoms (~35%) is more than enough to make it scary, even looking at it from a purely personal level (the rational assumption being I wouldn't be in a position to spread it to anyone else as I don't need to go anywhere). In general, I think people worry too much about the worst case scenario and don't consider the more mild, but vastly more likely scenarios, when assessing risks.

This volunteer, Jenny, has TWO prexisting autoimmune conditions going in.
She has Hashimoto's thyroiditis. And she has asthma, a recent addition to the autoimmune list. But she's doing it anyway, most likely aware of the issue, (or why mention she has these problems? )

The situation is analogous to offering alcohol to a man with a bad liver. Or telling somebody with an osteoporotic backbone to do some falls. This is not the kind of risk we would countenance in our families.

Maybe it will be OK. Maybe it will become a cautionary tale. But if you have an autoimmune issue too, this is how we are going to find out how safe that vaccine is. And it could well maim, or kill Jenny. Maybe take out her kidneys.
She certainly doesn't deserve that.

So I judge her knowledge of the stakes to be as good as her bravery. She is the precise opposite of any antivaxxer waste of skin. Like a certain Lion, we all know.

Her elevated personal risks due to her preexisting conditions are a good point.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Volunteers are certainly needed for these things, and we all ultimately benefit from them, but these people are compensated for their time and trials like these aren't particularly risky. Hell, being part of a trial where one only has a 50% chance of getting an unproven vaccine still means they have better odds than the general populace.

In France, the volunteers are not remunerated.

Just compensated for transportation, meals and other expenses. But it's very restrictive.

In any case we can add an additional characteristic to what I was saying.

"Egocentrism and seeking gratification for themselves" AND financial interest, profit-seeking.

Purity in the act is very rare.

Which does not detract from their courage or their unconsciousness.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

In France, the volunteers are not remunerated.

Just compensated for transportation, meals and other expenses. But it's very restrictive.

Yes, that is usually the case.

 

[Morbad]

Payment and Reimbursement to Study Participants | Pfizer

Pfizer offers reasonable payment for the time and effort to participate in a study. In addition, Pfizer may offer reasonable payment to parents, guardians, or caregivers of minor children or incapacitated study participants.

www.pfizer.com

They aren't getting serious financial inducements or lost wages covered, but they should be getting compensated to the extent that they aren't sacrificing anything, financially, by participating.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Vaccine orders from a few countries.