Reward Gankers for Kills

[CMDR SoldiersFortune]

Like it or not ganking is a legitimate playstyle. Think reavers from Firefly. Or, in-universe, they are known as raiders. Those who kill with no defined purpose other than to cause death.

My suggestion is fairly straightforward. Give gankers a reward system that encourages them to kill, but to do so in a way that is constructive to gameplay rather than destructive. Positive reinforcement.

For CMDRs who go down the dark path of murder there should be exclusive cosmetic items. Trophies of the kill. Think 'raider ship kit' on steroids. The more lives you end the more your particular cosmetic item evolves until you eventually reach the level of Elite within the underworld. BUT! And this is the key; these cosmetic items reset if you are killed. So the more players you bring to a bloody end without dying, the more prestige and war trophies you can display. This could also encourage duels among rival raiders/gankers to prove who is top dog. The winner's cosmetic item evolves while the loser is knocked down.

While it won't eliminate players who are content to simply cause pain by exploiting game mechanics, it could provide a structured outlet for those that actually want to embody the spirit of the reavers.

Just a thought.

 

[varonica]

This could also encourage duels among rival raiders/gankers to prove who is top dog. The winner's cosmetic item evolves while the loser is knocked down.

If they were fighting each other they wouldn't be gankers so that seems pretty pointless.

 

[whothe]

Think of the easy kills from owning a second account to kill! Or just taking turns killing each other with a friend around your carrier.
Same as why we have a player bounty cap, just too easy to exploit. Maybe if it was just a 'piracy' ranking, similar to trade/combat/exploration, but giving away actual freebies like ship kits etc would incentivise gaming the system.

 

[Chrystoph]

Like it or not ganking is a legitimate playstyle. Think reavers from Firefly. Or, in-universe, they are known as raiders. Those who kill with no defined purpose other than to cause death.

My suggestion is fairly straightforward. Give gankers a reward system that encourages them to kill, but to do so in a way that is constructive to gameplay rather than destructive. Positive reinforcement.

So, by your own statement, your justification is not an in-game motive, but, that said, you want the game to reward you for your behavior?

Given the current mindset with seal clubbing at the Engineers, all your proposal would accomplish is to drive more people into PG/Solo or get more of you blocked.

The really sad thing is that you... people cannot see, or do not care, that you actually are hurting the game population with your need for Player Against Player attacks. I use Against because versus implies competition that you obviously don't want since you keep going after people that cannot fight back effectively.

 

[gorankar]

Let the joy of knowing you, at a minimum, inconvenienced another player, and perhaps even ruined their day, be your reward.

 

[Elliot Coleman]

Give gankers a reward system

Some people really are masochists.

 

[Brrokk]

Desperation setting in.

 

[skananote]

Desperation setting in.

I am following this ganking development thing very carefully. At the end of the day I paid for the game to provide entertainment in my spare time. Gankers are not funny. I agree, desperation, looks like more and more ppl moving to solo/PG and poor gankers have no targets to shoot at... As I said in the other post. Gankers should be left where they belong, deserted game - in this case open - let them sit there and well sit there forever, do nothing, waste their days, get sad. Ganking is not a playstyle, it is a very poor choice. Nobody likes bullies...

 

[Old Duck]

FWIW, you get lots of Arx for killing other players

 

[Florenus]

I think it's ok-ish idea, as long as it would concern killing NPCs, not players.

As for rewards for ganking? Give me a break.

 

[Rochester]

The problem with gankers/seal clubbers etc whatever term is applicable... are they really a problem?

It would be interesting to learn from FD how many players there are which fall into such behaviour (maybe there are players out there that could furnish us with such statistics), there are likely external forums which keep a track of such numbers.

But would it be surprising to conclude the number to be relatively low, in comparison to the majority?

Considering the existance of group and solo, the poor instance framework, it all doesn't allow for many natural interactions.

In the years I've played I've maybe been shot at 3 times by other Cmdrs. No big deal for me, thats what they consider fun, just move on, never seen them again. But then again, I dont do community, I dont seek Cmdrs out and the same can be said of other types of players.

The only situations where I've interacted with others; gankers or other, is at focal points. Which FD have designed for such reasons.

Obviously gankers come across hundreds of unsuspecting victim's, but considering the play style they employ, thats not surprising, as gankers actively seek out other players.

If the numbers are statistically higher, then rest assured FD will be looking into this, regards balance, and thinking of ways to exploit it fiscally, maybe they already are, what with skins etc and of course Odyssey, however if the numbers were low then it poses no interest to them whatsoever.

Remember FD intently employ really effective anti ganker filters, group, solo, grind and block, which manages the issue, if it is an issue for you.

I dont feel therefore, your suggestion currently has legs at present, the development time and resources required to keep any one potentially small sub set of players happy doesn't make fiscal sense, unless the numbers are actually higher; but if that were the case, then maybe you've hit on something, but FD would have to also apply the same mechanism to other types of play style too for balance.

But lets remember that ED is broken, the lore is inconsistent, we cant apply real life answers/logic to it either. FD get around many issues I feel by using generics, if you read the older development posts its obvious that FDs initial concepts were not picked up by players; or more likely, in my personal opinion they were a bit too optimistic, vague or utopian. Thats why as a developer they talk in generics, 'play your way', 'dangerous' etc. They neither confirm, nor deny one method of play over another as it allows them the freedom of not fixing nor of back peddling on lore, potentially upsetting anyone in the process.

Currently players exploit these flaws to 'play their way', its only natural and sort of fun, and we ought to allow for that creativity; from FDs point of view that issue probably is already fixed, if people dont like certain styles, they move to group or solo, or just move on... the galaxy is pretty huge.

I'd love FD to implement certain ideas, I'm sure we all would, but I'm aware I'm in an a minority, so I dont expect anything, but its always good to provide constructive criticism, and ideas, because FD do read posts. If enough people make a productive argument I'm sure they will listen. Depends really on the numbers.

Regards rewards, Old Ducks correct, you already get lots of Arx for killing other players. So again potentially FD have already resolved the issue.

 

[CMDR SoldiersFortune]

So, by your own statement, your justification is not an in-game motive, but, that said, you want the game to reward you for your behavior?

I never said I wanted to be rewarded for my behavior. I'm not a ganker. I was simply throwing a reverse-psychology idea out there to see if it would catch on. But since it's clearly not... shrug. I guess I'll just go back to building ships and comparing stats and occasionally lurk in the forums.

 

[Drelthar]

Like it or not ganking is a legitimate playstyle. Think reavers from Firefly. Or, in-universe, they are known as raiders. Those who kill with no defined purpose other than to cause death.

My suggestion is fairly straightforward. Give gankers a reward system that encourages them to kill, but to do so in a way that is constructive to gameplay rather than destructive. Positive reinforcement.

For CMDRs who go down the dark path of murder there should be exclusive cosmetic items. Trophies of the kill. Think 'raider ship kit' on steroids. The more lives you end the more your particular cosmetic item evolves until you eventually reach the level of Elite within the underworld. BUT! And this is the key; these cosmetic items reset if you are killed. So the more players you bring to a bloody end without dying, the more prestige and war trophies you can display. This could also encourage duels among rival raiders/gankers to prove who is top dog. The winner's cosmetic item evolves while the loser is knocked down.

While it won't eliminate players who are content to simply cause pain by exploiting game mechanics, it could provide a structured outlet for those that actually want to embody the spirit of the reavers.

Just a thought.

Where is the incentive for constructive gameplay?

Looks like incentive to keep ganking as usual?

Also, I actually don't think ganking is a legitimate playstyle, like it or not.

I like your premise, incentives for more constructive PvP gameplay, but this isn't that suggestion

 

[Morbad]

I'm not seeing any meaningful in-setting context to this suggestion.

The reward for defeat of one's foes should be the attrition of those foes, which is largely absent in the game we have, but out-of-character incentives for out-of-context behavior isn't going to drive any kind of gameplay I'd see as beneficial.

FWIW, you get lots of Arx for killing other players

You also get ARX for getting shot down.

 

[Ytterium]

If they were fighting each other they wouldn't be gankers so that seems pretty pointless.

Most of them already do. Gankers, for the large part, participate in organized PvP

Think of the easy kills from owning a second account to kill! Or just taking turns killing each other with a friend around your carrier.
Same as why we have a player bounty cap, just too easy to exploit. Maybe if it was just a 'piracy' ranking, similar to trade/combat/exploration, but giving away actual freebies like ship kits etc would incentivise gaming the system.

Agreed. If there was a way around this without being overly complicated, it would be very nice. Maybe you get more piracy rank relative to the trade rank of your victims?

The more of these gank psychos crawl out of their holes, the more I start to believe that one of the biggest brainfarts was to glorify ganking as a "legitimate playstyle". I would strongly vote for the opposite approach - punishment instead of rewarding this hogwash.

So while we're at it, can we punish PvP bounty hunters? Those guys came to kill me for accidentally tapping a passenger liner with my beam lasers while I wasn't looking! They ruined my day! Now Im at a detention center having to pay a rebuy and we can't have that! Ganking is legitimate as PvP, Assassination missions, Bounty Hunting, BGS, and civilian massacre missions are legitimate. What's the difference? Someone gets an express ticket to a station at the cost of a few mil--pennies on the millions they make from mining?

Ganking is not a playstyle, it is a very poor choice.

As poor a choice as flying a shieldless paper T9 in a CG system in open? Who's making bad choices here?

So, by your own statement, your justification is not an in-game motive, but, that said, you want the game to reward you for your behavior?

Game rewards miners, traders, mercenaries, bounty hunters--why not assassins and pirates as much? I'm sure lore-wise, a bunch of the cartels would love CMDRs to bump off the guys killing their pirates in the rings.

Where is the incentive for constructive gameplay?

Agree with this. If it was something based off of finding and killing people that are notorious pirate-killers, that'd be constructive and offer consequences for PvE players beyond endless waves of NPCs. I think this sort of thing--if implemented should be similar to a bounty voucher system for the unsavory factions that can give you cosmetic bits for turning in xyz in anti-anti-pirate bonds or whatever.

The reward for defeat of one's foes should be the attrition of those foes, which is largely absent in the game we have, but out-of-character incentives for out-of-context behavior isn't going to drive any kind of gameplay I'd see as beneficial.

Agreed, though free cosmetics could be cool. Also, the 400/week ARX cap sort of puts the brakes on the ARX reward.

 

[Killnine]

The problem with gankers/seal clubbers etc whatever term is applicable... are they really a problem?

Judging from FDev setting up a new beginner area system: yes.
Judging from gankers DOSsing engineers and GCs from non-combat ships in Open: yes.

But outside of areas where commanders congregate: mostly not. Boils down to numbers. Personally, I feel that the ability to DOS engineer sites alone is something that warrants a fix. Especially since they're often (mostly? all?) "high security" systems. GCs can be considered "PvP areas" in Open and IMHO offer a welcome way for people to find PvP combat in a vast galaxy.

From a moral standpoint, as a life long SJW I do strongly feel that the game should definitely in general be more heavy-handed on a play style that revolves around being a nuisance to others. Every online multiplayer game that isn't solely competitive/adversial should have mechanics that strongly incentivise social, positive and consenting interactions. I do accept that there is, and should be, an adversial element too in Elite. The difficult part is to allow and promote what I consider "valid" adversial play such as piracy and faction or superpower PvP warfare, while discouraging ganking.

What I simply can't fathom is the lengths people go to in defending ganking. There simply isn't an excuse. By ganking or condoning ganking you contribute to a toxic environment that isn't good for the game or the community around it. Or, in the long run, for game studios and publishers. Yes, call me a care bear, an SJW and a forum dad - the fact that you think those are insulting only underlines what kind of person you are, while miserably failing at insulting me. The fact that "gamers" widely think those are insults speaks volumes about their subculture - one that I personally have ceased to identify with long ago.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Judging from FDev setting up a new beginner area system: yes.
Judging from gankers DOSsing engineers and GCs from non-combat ships in Open: yes.

But outside of areas where commanders congregate: mostly not. Boils down to numbers. Personally, I feel that the ability to DOS engineer sites alone is something that warrants a fix. Especially since they're often (mostly? all?) "high security" systems. GCs can be considered "PvP areas" in Open and IMHO offer a welcome way for people to find PvP combat in a vast galaxy.

From a moral standpoint, as a life long SJW I do strongly feel that the game should definitely in general be more heavy-handed on a play style that revolves around being a nuisance to others. Every online multiplayer game that isn't solely competitive/adversial should have mechanics that strongly incentivise social, positive and consenting interactions. I do accept that there is, and should be, an adversial element too in Elite. The difficult part is to allow and promote what I consider "valid" adversial play such as piracy and faction or superpower PvP warfare, while discouraging ganking.

What I simply can't fathom is the lengths people go to in defending ganking. There simply isn't an excuse. By ganking or condoning ganking you contribute to a toxic environment that isn't good for the game or the community around it. Or, in the long run, for game studios and publishers. Yes, call me a care bear, an SJW and a forum dad - the fact that you think those are insulting only underlines what kind of person you are, while miserably failing at insulting me. The fact that "gamers" widely think those are insults speaks volumes about their subculture - one that I personally have ceased to identify with long ago.

Beliefs about social justice might inform how you define your character in the game, but it is a game, to keep it in perspective. Heavy handed will end up meaning "unbalanced" or curtailing the sense of freedom in the game. The fact that "psychopaths" can try to blap me whenever they like proves that freedom to me, and the game would be less without it. The behavioural choices I make in the game mean more in light of it. More could and should be done to create consequences, but effective checks on murderous activity are a difficult balance problem, difficult to design and implement without creating exploits and require developer time to be reassigned from other tasks.

 

[BelExandor]

Give us half the engineering mats belonging to the Cmdr we kill. Instantly. No space vomit and limpit cleanup. Just a str8 transfer to the victor.
Then combat becomes truly personal.

 

[[VR] Bulbulunufus]

Give us half the engineering mats belonging to the Cmdr we kill. Instantly. No space vomit and limpit cleanup. Just a str8 transfer to the victor.
Then combat becomes truly personal.

A less ridiculous and more game-like suggestion would be to have a small RNG chance to be able to salvage intact engineered modules from the player you destroyed. Would encourage tackling hard targets, instead of squishing noobs.

 

[Robert Maynard]

A less ridiculous and more game-like suggestion would be to have a small RNG chance to be able to salvage intact engineered modules from the player you destroyed. Would encourage tackling hard targets, instead of squishing noobs.

,,,, and would be open to exploitation between CMDRs colluding to get "free" (i.e. the cost of a rebuy on the cheapest stripped out ship that can carry the desired module to the donor CMDR) engineered modules (and would avoid the current requirement to unlock engineers, gain reputation, gather materials / data, etc.).