Fdev is doing this wrong way round. They should first provide alternative to mining, as only reasonable source of income for most players, and THEN nerf mining if needed. I have a funny feeling that sorting out other activities in terms of income first would sort out mining issue altogether...
ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing
- Thread starter Bruce G
- Start date
The levels of income you are expecting are anything but reasonable. Current levels outside of mining are at an all-time high, and that's already ruining ship progression.
It's not just mining that needs to be nerfed, it's virtually everything, but mining is the crazy outlier.
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It's not that that the original posters talks about. It's about the lack of feeling of achievement - because most achievements don't feel "special" in any way.
Yes, you can put in a number of goals, but to achieve them, you mostly have to grind something. Missions, credits, kills.. It's a bit too much like life
.But a lot of us plays games to get away from the daily grind, to get some sense of achievement or discovery (even if a virtual one). But an important part of that is that your achievement is yours. That it's not just mindless grind, that it took you (or a community) some effort other than time to get in.
In Elite, TBH, I can think of some coop achievements like the last trade CG (where community did work together, even if it was spurred by the reward of double-FSD drive - because having that was an achievement, special to you), Admaster puzzle (the LP one) - even if the others were a bit too easy - and killing Goids is also an achievement, as while you can look at how to do it, it still takes some skill and learning (and risks rebuys).
You could even say that the original exploration was an achievement, as you got to be the first to be there, and had to figure out how to get there - but that's now mostly gone. We went from 15th-16th century of exploration to 20th, where just about everything that's not permit locked is accessible - sometimes not "easily" (as you may need FC), but most of the times "reasonably".
The lack of individual achievement, and of the surprise of the discovery, is now mostly gone, with the exception of CGs and FD in-game events. To me, that's where FD should concentrate more, as there's so much lore and stuff that could be discovered (individually and by community).
So to FDev I'd say make more cooperative CGs - for example, if there is AX/war going on, the traders have to supply the station, otherwise the repairs and rearms of the ships get worse and worse (yeah, I know, it would need significant redo), but creating a sense of not-easily-replicable achievement (community and/or individual), and the joy of discovery, is what should drive it.
Because the game has descended into a massive power and credit creep. One can make obscene amounts of money in very little time with very little effort and no skill whatsoever. Grab a laser, find a rock, start shooting.
I agree mining needs a nerf, even though I made a substantial amount of CR with it. LTDs have come a long way, Painite will now feel the pain, and core mining needs a buff to reflect the rarity of the core mined goods.
other activities barely cover costs, let alone a rebuy.
Assassination mission: Pays max 2m Credit. Usually involves some significant risk and requires some skill
Bounty hunting: 10-450k, nowhere to be found on the "getting rich" plans.
CZ: Long and tedious, pays sweet all
AX combat: 2m for a Cyclops to start with, You already need some skill for that plus a well engineered ship. If you are not a skilled AX pilot, but you want to become one, you will face a few rebuys, and it will take you a while until combat bonds of 2m will have covered your rebuys.
Smuggling: great game mechanic, just not realistically profitable. As others already pointed out: Stolen goods should be cheaper because you are trying to get rid of hot stuff. Illegal goods however should fetch a premium price, because they are prohibited, and you are taking a risk at bringing them to a station.
I for one welcome the game balance, to bring the credit earning back to a similar level, which reflects skill/risk/reward.
Can you reduce the price of the Asp Scout down to about 500,000 to a million? Its not worth whats charged for it currently, and making it a low cost ship might mitigate its mediocre performance before you rebalance it properly into the majestic swan we all know it is.
![[VR] Goooost](https://d2aefvhu2f0gi9.cloudfront.net/data/avatars/m/111/111637.jpg?1589354934){kind=avatar}
I'm very exited about CQC paying a worthwhile amount. Thank you so much.
Earlier in this thread, I mentioned that Salvage from POIs can and will be exploited by logging, especially if Salvage is increased in value.
Here is a direct tie in with your above example of bad mining missions, and the exploitable POIs.
System - California Sector JH-V c2-12
POI - Thomas Class Bulk Cargo Ship
Noted Salvage drops - Jadeite, Taaffeite, MetMonCry, LithHyd, BlkBox,
Noted Commodity drops = Tobac, Cryolite, Uraninite, ConTec, DomApp, Tea, Coffee, Bertrandite, Clothing, Rutile, Gallite, Wine, Beer, Coltan
The 3rd Salvage drop listed is Methanol Monohydrate Crystals.
You can just log in and out till you have the required amount of Methanol Monohydrate Crystals.
I really feel that they need to address the way loot and asteroid respawns work.
I totally agree with your proposed changes to mining missions. With mining missions being the higher payouts for mining, rather than the Market prices btw Jmanis.
I realise a fix so that only mined Ore can be handed in for mining missions would fix the above example. It wouldn't fix the fact POI Salvage can still be exploited by logging though.
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And that is your opinion. Let's keep it like that. Looking at majority of comments here and there players have a different idea... Artificially expanding time to get anywhere in the game is recipe for disaster. Players are already complaining about grind, grind is real, and please don't deny it. If I hear that grind is self inflicted and I am doing it wrong my currently neutral opinion about you will drop to very low level...
But why do they grind?
Don't tell me it's because "everyone" "needs" a Fleet Carrier and "must" get it within a week of installing the game?
Good news, thank you. All the preceding comments, this one and the ones after may all have a common theme.
In the past you have changed one thing to the detriment or exploit of another.
I hope you are looking at Every single aspect of the effect this may have.
It is almost like a live beta and I look forward to providing feedback.
This for me, was a long awaited post.
Regards
Pug
I don't see how that's reasonable, at all. Or fun.
Maybe people would take some time to explore the game & its possibilities in smaller ships for a while.
Instead of rushing to Anaconda, not knowing what to do with it and quitting. And/or just whine that they "need" to get a fleet carrier with just few hours of gameplay.
Exactly why smuggling needs to be at the top of FDs agenda here, and it's ridiculous that it's not, seeing as smuggling has been broken since 3.3.
Well, they probably do that because:
1. getting better ships - say big two at least - require rank, that is grind and there is no way around it,
2. Buying and kitting out any ship require money, money can be obtained very slow from anything apart from mining - and that's a grind,
3. Engineering is a two way grind, Felicity is easy as she will unlock on its own, Qwent - most useless of them all - require, grind for permit for Sirius, grind for modular terminals (this is RNG missions discussed somewhere else in this forum), you also need engineering materials and that is MOTHER OF ALL GRIND!
4. Palin require 5000ly trip out to black - that on its own require right ship and loudout, and for few players it is massive wall,
5. With all the above fleet carrier is beyond reach of many players, some (like me) make conscious choice not to get one as I have no use for FC,
I love The Dweller though, very straight forward, you sell illegal stuff to black market, pay 500k and voila... So it is possible to make it bearable...
The thing is that to enjoy the game the way PLAYER WANTS, player has to go through stupid loops to get the tool to actually play/have fun (better ship)... I do appreciate that grind is expected to some extent but for goodness sake, what ED does is massive overkill... And please just for a minute think about MAJORITY of players. Majority of players are casuals with families, full time jobs. Those ppl do not have infinite amount of time to spend grinding... And suggesting to go and play different game is also stupid. There is really no other game that would give one the opportunity to fly around Milky Way galaxy. No SC does not count... So people grind as there is no other way of getting anywhere in ED...
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I agree the PWA issue has been a pain in the bum (expletive), but I hope they are looking at Everything all at once, I'm going to wait for the first fix and comment then.
It won't change 'their' mind to know 'my' mind! What's going to change is Going to change. Lets see how they do.
Crack on Bruce-
Speaking for myself, but two words: Triple Elite.
I think that would be part of the balancing.
Always tossing up between: Mining what's on the board or the same amount in LTD/Painite. If the latter wins, then the mission isn't worth it.
I know there are other rewards than just cash like the MEF or rep, but in this case I'm just looking at the credits, since painite would be sold for hard cash.
Bit of a lazy, tired stereotype, that one, I'm sad to say.
Why do some not realise that people want to play a game, not always run a second business called Elite Dangerous? Some people like playing a game for a bit, then moving on. And let's face it, Elite's problem isn't credits, it's the shallowness of the experience/lack of meaning and the bugs really.
Playing the game in smaller ships is certainly possible after the Anaconda is achieved. If someone wants to rush, fair play to them, it's their game, their experience, and not for me to say it's the wrong way to play.
So ... why spend time worrying about "credit rebalancing" - why not instead abolish credits and make all things free?
Then there is no artificial barrier to getting anything in the game - you just go to a station and fit your ships how you want - and we get to skip this unsolvable conversation entirely.
Even before this rebalancing, it's possible to get 100M/hour or more from:
- massacre missions (CZ or pirate, stacked)
- trade missions (any high value good, in the right system combination)
- bulk trade (this rebalance claims it will add more goods that work for this and buff profits further, but it's already there in the right situation)
Two thirds of the ships cost less than 100M, even a nice multirole big-3 will cost less than 500M.
If that's not acceptably quick and too much grind, then I think abolishing credits entirely is the only really acceptable solution.