Powerplay PP vs BGS

[Dillon Fallon]

I believe that this is all just speculation. If you see that the person is wanted red lettering, then only after that you can claim it.

It isn't when they've actually told you as much.

Regardless, it's the decision of the player. In an anarchy system everyone has red lettering anyway (lawless) so it's up to the players in that system. Outside that, you get a bounty and notoriety, so you lose that ship for BGS work for your faction for a couple of hours.

Equally players in powerplay could pledge to your faction to 5C it. Nothing you could do about those either. Neither system is perfect and in the end it's player preference.

 

[Just Paul]

This is what I'm writing about, when you play BGS without a PP you can't tell exactly who your enemy is, so when you attack another ship you're just a regular ganker/pirate.

That's where you are wrong. You can find out a lot about the intentions of other people from in-game statistics or out-of-game statistics and tools. Also there are squadron tags. As in the bgs you usually play in the same area you will get a feeling who is random traffic, helping you, or actively working against you. You don't need a PP tag to figure that things out.
For me PP tags are a PvP flag, nothing more. I'm more interested in squadron tags to figure out the intentions of other players.

 

[SergMx]

This is incorrect. I regularly am in direct competition with large player groups. I do use misdirection quite a bit, submarine warfare. Most of my opponents play in private groups, PvP is rare & not a priority activity for me, but the risk of it is part of the fun I am usually trying to get people I meet to help me rather than looking for reasons to attack them, directly or indirectly.

I do not understand the meaning of what is described in relation to the topic.

 

[SergMx]

It isn't when they've actually told you as much.

Regardless, it's the decision of the player. In an anarchy system everyone has red lettering anyway (lawless) so it's up to the players in that system. Outside that, you get a bounty and notoriety, so you lose that ship for BGS work for your faction for a couple of hours.

Equally players in powerplay could pledge to your faction to 5C it. Nothing you could do about those either. Neither system is perfect and in the end it's player preference.

I agree. I wrote (maybe not in this thread), some of them ustrayayut race on srv and this is their right.
And not who kill Thargoid on the sidewinder is also their right.

 

[SergMx]

That's where you are wrong. You can find out a lot about the intentions of other people from in-game statistics or out-of-game statistics and tools. Also there are squadron tags. As in the bgs you usually play in the same area you will get a feeling who is random traffic, helping you, or actively working against you. You don't need a PP tag to figure that things out.
For me PP tags are a PvP flag, nothing more. I'm more interested in squadron tags to figure out the intentions of other players.

I don't think you can rely on just feelings, you need direct evidence.
As for off-game utilities, there are useful ones like the log handler, because essentially they just save you time. And there are harmful like Discord, etc.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I play the BGS because i want my faction to remain in control of my home system and dabble in other systems. It doesn't require much effort from me most of the time and i've no interest in competing against other player groups either. Its more of a roleplay-lite kind of thing for me. Also working the BGS can be done via a wide range of activities, stuff i enjoy doing anyway, and unless there are certain states active, i can do whatever activities i feel like on any particular day.

I do not play PP because it is all about competing against other player groups in a never ending war. There is no win, there is no loss, just a never ending game of Risk. And the activities you can do to support your power are very limited with only minor variation between powers.

Back when PP was announced, and FD talked about PP missions, i had some vague hopes that different powers would have different focuses. Like Torval would allow you to gain influence by mining. But nope, they are basically cookie cutter copy/paste mechanics for all.

Regarding the connection between PP and the BGS, i think FD should have either made PP be driven by the BGS or kept them completely separate. Unfortunately, as it is, we have a situation where powers will try and flip systems to make them more favourable, but for them they don't care about the faction in charge per se, simply that its a good one for them. It means that some people working the BGS can have their efforts undermined by people who don't care about the BGS, they just want a favourable faction in charge that is different to the one the person is supporting. On the flip side, most of the time BGS players don't really care about the powers, unless it impacts their efforts.

One thing i really dislike about being in a power affected system is how it affects NPC spawns. Spawn slots at nav beacons and res being taken up with PP ships.

I'd really like FD to stop those spawns if i'm not pledged to a power. I have no interest in PP and all those spawns just take up potential pirate spawn slots.

To my mind, powerplay was the worst thing FD have added to the game to date. If it had been implemented differently, then it could have added something positive for me. But as it stands, it only adds negatives.

 

[SergMx]

I play the BGS because i want my faction to remain in control of my home system and dabble in other systems. It doesn't require much effort from me most of the time and i've no interest in competing against other player groups either. Its more of a roleplay-lite kind of thing for me. Also working the BGS can be done via a wide range of activities, stuff i enjoy doing anyway, and unless there are certain states active, i can do whatever activities i feel like on any particular day.

I do not play PP because it is all about competing against other player groups in a never ending war. There is no win, there is no loss, just a never ending game of Risk. And the activities you can do to support your power are very limited with only minor variation between powers.

Back when PP was announced, and FD talked about PP missions, i had some vague hopes that different powers would have different focuses. Like Torval would allow you to gain influence by mining. But nope, they are basically cookie cutter copy/paste mechanics for all.

Regarding the connection between PP and the BGS, i think FD should have either made PP be driven by the BGS or kept them completely separate. Unfortunately, as it is, we have a situation where powers will try and flip systems to make them more favourable, but for them they don't care about the faction in charge per se, simply that its a good one for them. It means that some people working the BGS can have their efforts undermined by people who don't care about the BGS, they just want a favourable faction in charge that is different to the one the person is supporting. On the flip side, most of the time BGS players don't really care about the powers, unless it impacts their efforts.

One thing i really dislike about being in a power affected system is how it affects NPC spawns. Spawn slots at nav beacons and res being taken up with PP ships.

I'd really like FD to stop those spawns if i'm not pledged to a power. I have no interest in PP and all those spawns just take up potential pirate spawn slots.

To my mind, powerplay was the worst thing FD have added to the game to date. If it had been implemented differently, then it could have added something positive for me. But as it stands, it only adds negatives.

I'm sorry, I understand what you're saying, but don't take my words as rude. But such things have been written before.
Are you sure this game is for YOU?

P.S. Do you play SOLO?

 

[Just Paul]

don't think you can rely on just feelings, you need direct evidence.
As for off-game utilities, there are useful ones like the log handler, because essentially they just save you time. And there are harmful like Discord, etc.

Not to be rude, but do you play the bgs?

If I run into a player from a sqdrn connected to a hostile faction they are the enemy. It's the same as having the PP pledge showing up in the hud.
Players whos intentions can't be easily identified are either shadowed for a bit or if they belong to a sqdrn we ask them what is up. This only happens if the system is under attack, not for normal day to day traffic. Until now I only shoot 1 innocent person, but that one ran even then asked multiple times to stop. The rest was either in hostile squadrons, actively working against us, or just rude.
As I said if you work in an area you get a feeling who of the random players does what. The intentions of all the local groups you find out easily over time, there doesn't need to be a big sign above their heads reading "shoot this one, it's the enemy".
Discord is a big part of finding out about other groups and/or getting in contact with them. Platform, time zone, and modes make it harder to do the same in game but it's possible there too.

 

[SergMx]

Not to be rude, but do you play the bgs?

If I run into a player from a sqdrn connected to a hostile faction they are the enemy. It's the same as having the PP pledge showing up in the hud.
Players whos intentions can't be easily identified are either shadowed for a bit or if they belong to a sqdrn we ask them what is up. This only happens if the system is under attack, not for normal day to day traffic. Until now I only shoot 1 innocent person, but that one ran even then asked multiple times to stop. The rest was either in hostile squadrons, actively working against us, or just rude.
As I said if you work in an area you get a feeling who of the random players does what. The intentions of all the local groups you find out easily over time, there doesn't need to be a big sign above their heads reading "shoot this one, it's the enemy".
Discord is a big part of finding out about other groups and/or getting in contact with them. Platform, time zone, and modes make it harder to do the same in game but it's possible there too.

How does the statement about not separating PEOPLE and NPCs and single-player and open-player fit in here?

Imagine real space, communication between ships, and its messages can be intercepted or blocked. You use Discord to cheat the game by coordinating your actions by being off wing etc.

P.S. Only in terms of PP.

 

[Just Paul]

How does the statement about not separating PEOPLE and NPCs and single-player and open-player fit in here?

I don't get what you are trying to say with this.
NPCs don't do anything in regards to the bgs by themselves. Shooting them for bounties or neg influence does. That is easy to see by the red wanted tag or by the faction they are associated with. People you can easily find out what there intentions are by just asking if you run into them. It terms of the bgs players and npcs are 2 different things. Players could help or work against you. NPCs can't do either.
Players who play in solo/pg you don't see in PP either so there is no difference between a bgs centric group or a PP centric one.

Imagine real space, communication between ships, and its messages can be intercepted or blocked. You use Discord to cheat the game by coordinating your actions by being off wing etc.

Even the PP groups coordinate using discord and out of game methods, there is no other way with different time zones and platforms. It's not possible to do that only in game with the way it works.
Sqdrn tags are similar to PP pledges as they can show you what somebody is up to.

 

[SergMx]

I don't get what you are trying to say with this.
NPCs don't do anything in regards to the bgs by themselves. Shooting them for bounties or neg influence does. That is easy to see by the red wanted tag or by the faction they are associated with. People you can easily find out what there intentions are by just asking if you run into them. It terms of the bgs players and npcs are 2 different things. Players could help or work against you. NPCs can't do either.
Players who play in solo/pg you don't see in PP either so there is no difference between a bgs centric group or a PP centric one.




Even the PP groups coordinate using discord and out of game methods, there is no other way with different time zones and platforms. It's not possible to do that only in game with the way it works.
Sqdrn tags are similar to PP pledges as they can show you what somebody is up to.

I disagree.
Playing solo PP I see my enemy and can kill him.
I can play PP solo and I don't care if other people are playing it. I bought the game and I play it myself and there is no dependence on someone else in a different time zone.

Yes, people use discord and stuff is their right I'm not scolding them for it. Just for me it's not really good because it interferes with immersion in the game.

P.S.
Am I correct in assuming that if all Elite players suddenly flew to the other side of the galaxy then all states in all bubble factions would freeze?

 

[Justinian Octavius]

Playing solo PP I see my enemy and can kill him.

You can't see an AFK turret boat running 24/7 or a 5C Power Commodity hauling bot if they are in solo.

CMDR Justinian Octavius

 

[Jmanis]

I've been wanting to ask for a long time, but the discussion in the suggestions section reminded me of this.
We made PP, why are people trying to play BGS?

Factions were meant to rise and fall from the status of being powers... that is, when a faction grew sufficiently large, it would become a power... the distinction between the two systems of play meaning small time players could stick with the BGS, while bigger players would transcend to powers, battling other large powers rather than small factions.

But then that got canned, and replaced with what we have now. I started powerplay, and lasted a few weeks. Why?

How do i support a faction? Today i support my faction with trade and security operations and missions, then enter a war for control with another faction, fighting in warzones. After that, an outbreak will probably occur and I'll deliver medicines to exploit that occurrence for more influence... on the back end of that I'll push a little harder till expansion occurs... once we appear in the new system at 10% we begin a campaign of driving our faction up to ensure we aren't retreated, batting off lower- controlled factions and building up security and economic strength once again, and seeking opporunities for mutual benefits to my faction in both systems, while smuggling into a black market of the controlling faction to undermine it.

How do i support a power? Say I'm fortifying...
Today i deliver pamphlets
Tomorrow i deliver pamphlets
The next day i deliver pamphlets

Maybe i want to expand (as patreus)
Today i fight in a conflict zone
Tomorrow i fight in a conflict zone
The next day i fight in a conflict zone

Maybe i want to undermine winters?
Today i interdict her ships
Tomorrow i interdict her ships
The next day i interdict her ships.

This is why the BGS trumps PP. The sheer dynamicity of the BGS in terms of activities and how to achieve results rips shreds off PP.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Factions were meant to rise and fall from the status of being powers... that is, when a faction grew sufficiently large, it would become a power... the distinction between the two systems of play meaning small time players could stick with the BGS, while bigger players would transcend to powers, battling other large powers rather than small factions.

But then that got canned, and replaced with what we have now. I started powerplay, and lasted a few weeks. Why?

How do i support a faction? Today i support my faction with trade and security operations and missions, then enter a war for control with another faction, fighting in warzones. After that, an outbreak will probably occur and I'll deliver medicines to exploit that occurrence for more influence... on the back end of that I'll push a little harder till expansion occurs... once we appear in the new system at 10% we begin a campaign of driving our faction up to ensure we aren't retreated, batting off lower- controlled factions and building up security and economic strength once again, and seeking opporunities for mutual benefits to my faction in both systems, while smuggling into a black market of the controlling faction to undermine it.

How do i support a power? Say I'm fortifying...
Today i deliver pamphlets
Tomorrow i deliver pamphlets
The next day i deliver pamphlets

Maybe i want to expand (as patreus)
Today i fight in a conflict zone
Tomorrow i fight in a conflict zone
The next day i fight in a conflict zone

Maybe i want to undermine winters?
Today i interdict her ships
Tomorrow i interdict her ships
The next day i interdict her ships.

This is why the BGS trumps PP. The sheer dynamicity of the BGS in terms of activities and how to achieve results rips shreds off PP.

And is why I argue that Powerplay in whatever form should not replicate the BGS. FD need to give Powerplay its own niche, not have two of the same thing.

 

[Riverside]

I do not understand the meaning of what is described in relation to the topic.

When it is not obvious who the enemy is (or allies are) it makes the game more interesting (for me). I defend territory & attack enemies too, but over a smaller scale than by pledging.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I'm sorry, I understand what you're saying, but don't take my words as rude. But such things have been written before.
Are you sure this game is for YOU?

P.S. Do you play SOLO?

Ummm... yes, i'm pretty sure the game is for me. I have been playing it since before release and enjoy it.

I play all modes, although open pretty much exclusively for the last year, not that i see other people often.

I'm also the nominal head of a player group (although only because the other shiftless sods don't want the job).

I'm not sure why you think any of this is relevant to the discussion though.

 

[KKomrade Sylas]

Thank you for your reply. I understand what you are writing and that is what I thought before. That's why I'm surprised by people who don't swear to power when playing BGS, I guess they don't fully understand these in essence.

In PP there are ranks, wages and most importantly if you kill the enemy you do not become a criminal.

For me, playing BGS without an oath of strength is comparable to racing. Yes people can do that, but it's not in any way supported by the game.

We all have different goals. When you're playing an RTS like Age of Empires, what reward do you get from a victory screen? Well, the satisfaction of it. You don't need any sort of character progression other than the progression of your own skills and knowledge as a player.

When playing the BGS, most people do not need a salary or a reward other than the satisfaction of taking over as many systems as you can, or the satisfaction of a well placed targeted expansion into an important system with high population, or good shipyards, or whatever.

You are also constantly running into other people doing the same, prompting diplomacy, alliances, non-agression pacts, or disputes and wars.

And although plenty of people are outside PP bubbles, big player factions will always eventually end up in powerplay bubbles. Good relations with them is key, and BGSers must at the very least know if their government type is good or bad for that particular power. We are in Antal, Patreus, Mahon and Grom bubbles get along well with all of them.

Powerplay and BGS are intertwined, but are also two completely separate things, and more often than not, get in the way of each other.

 

[SergMx]

Ummm... yes, i'm pretty sure the game is for me. I have been playing it since before release and enjoy it.

I play all modes, although open pretty much exclusively for the last year, not that i see other people often.

I'm also the nominal head of a player group (although only because the other shiftless sods don't want the job).

I'm not sure why you think any of this is relevant to the discussion though.

Again, I'm sorry, I did not mean to offend YOU, just to show that YOUR vision of the game is not what it was intended.

Because I think, and judging by the design of the game, BGS should not exist separately from PP. But for some reason many people do not understand or do not want to understand.

 

[SergMx]

We all have different goals. When you're playing an RTS like Age of Empires, what reward do you get from a victory screen? Well, the satisfaction of it. You don't need any sort of character progression other than the progression of your own skills and knowledge as a player.

When playing the BGS, most people do not need a salary or a reward other than the satisfaction of taking over as many systems as you can, or the satisfaction of a well placed targeted expansion into an important system with high population, or good shipyards, or whatever.

You are also constantly running into other people doing the same, prompting diplomacy, alliances, non-agression pacts, or disputes and wars.

And although plenty of people are outside PP bubbles, big player factions will always eventually end up in powerplay bubbles. Good relations with them is key, and BGSers must at the very least know if their government type is good or bad for that particular power. We are in Antal, Patreus, Mahon and Grom bubbles get along well with all of them.

Powerplay and BGS are intertwined, but are also two completely separate things, and more often than not, get in the way of each other.

Strange I understand YOU, but why do I see others do not understand the design of the game.
Once again, you can have a race on the SRV, just because you like it, but you do not need to demand from the developers to make a figure of a man who waves the flag and gives the start of the race.

 

[Achtung-Goomba]

Because I think, and judging by the design of the game, BGS should not exist separately from PP. But for some reason many people do not understand or do not want to understand.

Everybody 'plays' the BGS regardless of whether they actively want to or not, it's the BACKGROUND simulation to the galaxy, and every player action has an effect on it. When players like me say 'they've only just started playing the BGS' what we mean is we've only just started to actively try to manipulate it favourably for the faction(s) we support.

PP is an opt-in activity, you choose whether or not you want to pledge to a power.