Are we too helpful?

Upfront, I will admit this is a contentious topic and I know I will receive some abuse, ridicule and belittling for raising it - so be it, I fully accept what is coming to me but I think this topic needs some discussion.

This community is great, it is one of the best I have been associated with in the realms of online gaming. If a new player (or even an old player I guess) asks a question there is a line up of eager Commanders willing to offer advice. And not just advice but offers to help out with transport, with getting goods to unlock Engineers, even offers of easy credits. But at times I think we can be too good, too generous with our advice, too helpful and as a result, creating a group of new players that have a very defined view of how the game is played. Let me explain:

Say a new player creates a thread asking about getting mats for his first engineer. Rarely do I see someone patiently explaining about how to outfit a ship with an SRV, Frameshift Wake Scanner and/or Collector Limpet Controller, do a little research to find out exactly what the player needs, how and where to do that research (and why it is okay to use 3rd party tools) and where to go to find the mats they need. Unfortunately (in my opinion at least), these new players get told to head to the Crystalline Shards to fill up there and then use the Mat Trader. Doesn't matter that the nearest Shards could be 10k lys away, a newbie in an unengineered beginners ship will have no trouble with a journey of that length for their first excursion out of the bubble. Or they get told to go to Dav's Hope and endlessly relog until they get enough to head to the nearest Mat Trader. And if they need Encoded Mats, yep, directions are given to Jameson's crash site.

Or even the basic, a question is asked on making credits. Is the player asked what type of activities they like doing, would they prefer mining over trade, do they enjoy running missions, or is bounty hunting more their flavour. Nope, they get told immediately what the latest gold mine is, which may seem as grindy as hell to someone new.

There is nothing wrong with the information given, just I don't think that sometimes is the right information for the situation. Are we developing a whole group of players than have never driven on the surface of a planet looking for outcrops? Ones that have no idea on how to interpret the scanner on the SRV. Will there be a gaggle of newbies who don't know the difference between an Degraded, Encoded or High Grade USS? What will we do when someone complains that they can't get the Grade 1 or 2 Enc Mats via mission rewards because they don't know they could scan wakes right outside of the station they are in and get them for free? Will some of these players eject the pacifier and throw the toys out the cot the first time they have to do something mundane or basic in the game? Are we forgetting to teach these new players the basics?

So what is the consensus here, should we, as the Community, be trying to educate these new players, or is telling them the quickest solution the right way to go?
 
I've always attributed the willingness, eagerness even, of so many on these forums to answer questions promptly to the forum's demographics being largely comprised of an aging population trying to prove to themselves they still have some mental capacity yet by displaying their vast knowledge purely off of recollection, and not so much to actually help others, but rather for the sense of relief felt when they actually remembered something.

To be fair, I might just be projecting.


As for potential effects, why blame us when we can blame all those whippersnapper youtubers!?
 
I've always attributed the willingness, eagerness even, of so many on these forums to answer questions promptly to the forum's demographics being largely comprised of an aging population trying to prove to themselves they still have some mental capacity yet by displaying their vast knowledge purely off of recollection, and not so much to actually help others, but rather for the sense of relief felt when they actually remembered something.

To be fair, I might just be projecting.


As for potential effects, why blame us when we can blame all those whippersnapper youtubers!?
Ouch, I resemble that remark (looks around his desk to see numerous note books, post-it notes, scraps of paper with annotations scribbled on them) I can remember goodly :D
 
There is no 'we' (or spoon) :)

Some people want to be helpful, some people want lots of advice.

Personally I think figuring stuff out is half the fun, so I tend not to read advice offered & usually avoid what might be considered spoilers. But I'm not averse to using google if I can't figure something out, someone will usually have asked and/or provided a solution.

Mocking others for not knowing something isn't something I do though.
 
This is a strange thread. People tend to give advice based on how they do things themselves, I don't know that it's any deeper than that. The most popular way to do things is the fastest way, so that's the conventional advice.
Okay, lets say you asked me to teach you how to drive a car. Since I am an F1 driver, I will teach you only how to drive an F1 car. Hey that's how I do it, I find it the most economical way of transport and all my peers do it as well so in my group it is popular.

Good luck passing your driving test .....

There is no 'we' (or spoon) :)

Some people want to be helpful, some people want lots of advice.

Personally I think figuring stuff out is half the fun, so I tend not to read advice offered & usually avoid what might be considered spoilers. But I'm not averse to using google if I can't figure something out, someone will usually have asked and/or provided a solution.

Mocking others for not knowing something isn't something I do though.
So who mocking who or are you implying I did the the OP? If so, please show me where I belittled someone?
 
I think it comes down to how much said newbie is willing to learn from more experienced players advice vs how much they want to discover for themselves.

Generally if some one asks a question I know the answer to, i’ll offer up a quick summary of advice to point them in the right direction with the offer of further details if they want it.
And quite often I get messages from new players asking for those details, particularly when it comes to PVE combat.
I’ve even had a few follow up messages a few days later saying something to the effect of “cheers mate, that’s helped loads”.

It’s a community game so I’m always willing to help others if they get stuck or confused by game mechanics.

I recently turned Triple Elite and even I need to ask a question once in a while 😉
 
As it takes only one person to give the quickest solution, and the person that found said solution usually wants to share it, I'd argue the question is moot.

On a related note, I vote option 2.
Here's why:
  • I spend real life 'doing my time in the trenches'. I don't play games to remind me of real life.
  • If a developer is too lazy to balance their game, creating short loops of content easily exploited and exhausted, that isn't the player's fault.
  • Players are single-handedly the best bug-testers, the best exploit finders, and the best...well...players. It's in their nature to break a game - that's the goal of gaming: to do whatever it is you're doing the best you can do it (if not the most fun, see: Sidewinders hunting Medusas).

If players are rapidly burning out because a game is too easily mastered and conquered...that isn't the player's fault. That's straight up a developer issue.
More importantly...
If a developer has indicated they aren't worried about that (likely because they've sold enough copies to not care about player retention), then its community shouldn't care either.

The community shouldn't care because:
  • They don't decide when the servers are turned off.
  • They don't decide what features get implemented or balanced.
  • They have no authority whatsoever on how a game should or should not be played. They don't own the code.

There is a stark difference between a community that fights to keep its players engaged and a community that fights its developer to keep players engaged.
Elite is definitely of the second variety. Hence threads like these.
 
I think a lot depends on the new players themselves. When I first started playing (and even now) I avoided using out-of-game resources for information as much as I possibly could unless I was just completely stuck. But that's just my approach to games in general - I know a lot of people like to get in and just get all the shinies ASAP, and I don't have a problem with that either - games are supposed to be "fun", which can be very subjective ;)

I don't think it's a bad thing really for the community to help newbies, even as far as the situations mentioned in the OP. I think it's far better than the opposite, to be honest...
 
I try to help at times with aspects of the game that I am familiar with, I also like to try to make them think, sometimes a straight answer will not do that.

I am a truck driver by trade, and communication by written word is by far not my best form of communication so I do try to keep my posts fairly short, apart from that my single typing finger can't keep up with most posters.

But on the other hand I prefer to offer my limited help than leave a player stuck or given advice that may not be totally appropriate for their circumstances.

I also know I will be asking later for advice on other aspects of the game that I have not yet mastered.
 
So who mocking who or are you implying I did the the OP? If so, please show me where I belittled someone?

I was commenting generally about a broad trend (PvP ship build threads in particular), but I just had a look at your post history & found this from a few hours ago:
I don't know, for someone who joined the forums in 2014 the OP has a distinct lack of knowledge of even the basics of the game, honestly don't know if he is genuine or just trolling us.
 
I was commenting generally about a broad trend (PvP ship build threads in particular), but I just had a look at your post history & found this from a few hours ago:
And after looking at the players posting history here I still stand by initial suspicions. {deleted - oops too emotive}. Of course there is nothing I can prove so I decided not to participate in any threads that player creates, which is my prerogative of course.
 
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