The problem with Consoles

tolm

tolm
My opinion:

The PC delay until August is because the PC version is taking longer than expected. Nothing more, nothing less. The further delay to the console versions until November is to allow cross-compiling, testing and whatever else is needed after the PC version is completed. This could mean the console versions will actually take much, much longer.

So, there‘s no delay to the PC version due to console issues - the PC version IS going to drop in advance of that. Which in turn brings issues with PC players getting several months head-start on “first walked on” tags which needs addressing in some form ...

Do we need native PS5 / XBox Series X versions? IMO, yes. Those machines are high-enough spec to deliver the same experience as a decent gaming PC. Sure, there will be ultra-spec PCs that can do more, but “4K 60fps” should definitely be possible on those current-gen consoles and not delivering that would be a mistake. Yes, the previous-gen console game versions run “fine” in backwards-compatibility mode but if that current game will have to be further hobbled in order to follow FDevs delusions of FPS grandeur then there really is no excuse to ignore the current-gen console capabilities.
 
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tolm

tolm
Northpin said:
That doesn't mean everyone should be forced to buy a new console.
For what is worth my daughter still uses her XB360 - mostly to play guitar hero and some kinect stuff - things that are no longer available on the newer consoles.

Having the game running decently on last gen and better on nextgens (in compatibility mode) seems a way better deal for them (actually for everyone else) than angering their customers by not supporting odyssey on last gens.
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Backwards compatibility on Elite is - due to the disparity between the quality of the XBox port vs the PS port - a total joke. The PS5 runs at 1080p whereas the last-gen XBox One X gets 4K ... and FDev refuse to address this.
 

CMDR D Noize

CMDR D Noize
tolm said:
Backwards compatibility on Elite is - due to the disparity between the quality of the XBox port vs the PS port - a total joke. The PS5 runs at 1080p whereas the last-gen XBox One X gets 4K ... and FDev refuse to address this.
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I think a lot of this, as usual, comes from the fact that PlayStation has always been notoriously difficult to develop for when it comes to third party companies.

The Japanese games industry (like most things in Japan) is incredibly insular and their software architecture is different enough from PC/Xbox to be a pain in the bum for a lot of western companies.

Coupled with the fact that Sony always seem to prioritise form over function with their hardware just makes things worse (why is their power brick always on the inside?).
You could fry an egg on a PS3 after a few minutes and the PS4 sounds like a jet engine taking off when it runs something as seemingly simple as Ni No Kuni 2.
Don’t know how the PS5 runs yet but that daft Saturday Night Fever collar doesn’t instil much confidence.

And on that note I recently watched my brother crack open his PS4 to give it a good clean out and we discovered that its one and only cooling fan is on the bottom of the machine, facing down and all the “cooling vents” around the edges are purely cosmetic with no actual airflow to any of the important bits 😑 he’s only had it about 3 years and you can’t hear the game over that poor fan most of the time without turning the TV up.

Where as my 5 year old Xbone that looks a VCR had a baby with a breeze block is still sitting pretty and barely makes a peep.

Both machines run the same games but there’s some strikingly different hardware & software design between the two.
 
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Red Anders

Red Anders
Pigletslastand said:
My guess is there are problems running it on the old consoles, but that’s just a guess.
Without clarity from fdev it’s impossible to know but I arrive at this conclusion based on a few factors.

1. When consoles were introduced the fidelity on PC had to be reduced just to get it to work according to people here and Obsidian Ant. Odyssey contains better graphics across the game so is no doubt heavier on the specs.

2. connected to point 1, the old gen consoles struggled at times quite badly with lag around planets and loading the system map and would even freeze the game when checking the module panel for a couple of seconds. All these issues were highlighted, documented and brought to frontier regularly till we were blue in the face.. silence was the response. No consideration, no acknowledgement, no discussion.

3. connected to 1 and 2, I personally found that an increase in hardware capability solved most of these problems when I bought a new gen console (Series X) so the old gens were already suffering before anything new has been introduced.

I can only guess then that is a cyberpunkesque situation but so far frontier have blamed it on just COVID and not acknowledged any of these issues. It’s high time we had a discussion on it instead of the stone-walling.
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With regard to your last paragraph you seem to assume it's an either\or issue which I really don't get when the most likely explanation is that yes, the problem is addressing the optimisation work needed for last-gen consoles, and it's exactly that work which will take longer due to workflow issues caused by the ongoing covid restrictions.
 

Northpin

Northpin
tolm said:
Backwards compatibility on Elite is - due to the disparity between the quality of the XBox port vs the PS port - a total joke. The PS5 runs at 1080p whereas the last-gen XBox One X gets 4K ... and FDev refuse to address this.
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They cannot address that unless they release a native version for PS5 / Xbox Series. Simply because PS4 Pro never got a 4k patch
And you should had pick the torches and pitchforks like 2 years ago and demand a PS4 Pro 4k patch even if it was able to run only in performance mode

The only reason Xbox Series X runs ED in 4k is because it's backward compatible with Xbox One X - which runs ED in 4k
PS5 is backward compatible with PS4 Pro - no 4k on PS4 Pro simply means no 4k on PS5.
 

tolm

tolm
Northpin said:
They cannot address that unless they release a native version for PS5 / Xbox Series. Simply because PS4 Pro never got a 4k patch
And you should had pick the torches and pitchforks like 2 years ago and demand a PS4 Pro 4k patch even if it was able to run only in performance mode

The only reason Xbox Series X runs ED in 4k is because it's backward compatible with Xbox One X - which runs ED in 4k
PS5 is backward compatible with PS4 Pro - no 4k on PS4 Pro simply means no 4k on PS5.
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Exactly my point ... the quality of the PS port is lacking due to not having a 4K option on PS4 Pro despite the hardware “happily” managing 4K on other titles.

Then FDev’s reliance on backwards-compatibility on the current-gen consoles doubles-down on that poor effort, resulting in the last-gen XBox getting better graphics (in theory - I hear there are issues ...) than current-gen PS.
 
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TheSisko

TheSisko
tolm said:
Exactly my point ... the quality of the PS port is lacking due to not having a 4K option on PS4 Pro despite the hardware “happily” managing 4K on other titles.

Then FDev’s reliance on backwards-compatibility on the current-gen consoles doubles-down on that poor effort, resulting in the last-gen XBox getting better graphics (in theory - I hear there are issues ...) than current-gen PS.
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Xbox One X has more memory for 4K frame buffers then the Pro, and a bandwidth advantage as well along with a stronger GPU. You may be expecting too much from the Pro for this game.
 

Northpin

Northpin
TheSisko said:
Xbox One X has more memory for 4K frame buffers then the Pro, and a bandwidth advantage as well along with a stronger GPU. You may be expecting too much from the Pro for this game.
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Yea, lots are blaming FD for not releasing a 4k patch for PS4 Pro, when the truth is the PS4 Pro most probably was not able to render it at 30 fps
 

TheSisko

TheSisko
tolm said:
Have you seen Ghost of Tsushima on PS4 Pro? It’s looks INCREDIBLE. It can be done.
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It's not done for that game:

www.eurogamer.net

Ghost of Tsushima tech review: Sony first-party magic delivers a beautiful open world

Six years on from InFamous Second Son and its standalone add-on, First Light, Sucker Punch returns with Ghost of Tsushi…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

Ghost of Tsushima offers two visual modes when played on PS4 Pro - a quality mode and a mode that favours a 'better frame-rate'. Put simply, you're getting an impressive 3200x1800 image likely using checkerboard reconstruction for 4K screens, while the frame-rate mode locks everything (including the HUD and text elements) to native 1080p
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I've not seen anything yet to suggest Xbox One X is using checkerboard reconstruction for its 4K Quality mode.
 

tolm

tolm
TheSisko said:
It's not done for that game:

www.eurogamer.net

Ghost of Tsushima tech review: Sony first-party magic delivers a beautiful open world

Six years on from InFamous Second Son and its standalone add-on, First Light, Sucker Punch returns with Ghost of Tsushi…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net



I've not seen anything yet to suggest Xbox One X is using checkerboard reconstruction for its 4K Quality mode.
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Sure, it’s using “checkerboard” processing - very few games on PS4 Pro render native 4K - but you do get a 2160p output signal to your TV and it looks very, very good. Whereas Elite still outputs a 1080p signal.
 

Northpin

Northpin
tolm said:
Have you seen Ghost of Tsushima on PS4 Pro? It’s looks INCREDIBLE. It can be done.

But I’m more concerned about the lack of current-gen support at this stage.
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Yea, great job comparing a 2020 PS4 Exclusive with a multiplatform launched in 2015
Also, you'd still think it will do 4k 30 fps if those samurai would be speeding at 500 m/s?
 

TheSisko

TheSisko
tolm said:
Sure, it’s using “checkerboard” processing - very few games on PS4 Pro render native 4K - but you do get a 2160p output signal to your TV and it looks very, very good. Whereas Elite still outputs a 1080p signal.
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And that's on Sony, not Frontier. From what I've read, the Pro supports hardware checkerboard rendering but very few devs actually use it, and prefer to do their own checker-boarding in software - maybe it takes too much of a performance hit to do in Elite?

Either way, if Frontier could have done it on the Pro, they would of. I'm sure they'd like visual parity on all platforms where possible.
 

tolm

tolm
TheSisko said:
And that's on Sony, not Frontier. From what I've read, the Pro supports hardware checkerboard rendering but very few devs actually use it, and prefer to do their own checker-boarding in software - maybe it takes too much of a performance hit to do in Elite?

Either way, if Frontier could have done it on the Pro, they would of. I'm sure they'd like visual parity on all platforms where possible.
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Agree to disagree on that - I think they couldn’t be bothered.

Just as they can’t be bothered to support true 4K / 60fps on the current-gen consoles.
 
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