Allow buying and selling Mats

[Ettanin]

I'd be okay with the introduction of a player-to-player material market, but under the following restrictions:

1. To curb RMT attempts, the in-between trade currency is Arx. Not Credits.
2. To prevent pay-to-win, the weekly trading limit per player is 400 Arx. If you reach that limit, you can still sell, but not buy, mats. Only purchases are counted against that limit.

Another noteworthy side effect is that this would allow you to grind for your skins by letting others pay for you (within their free Arx limit of course).

 

[Pug]

I'd be okay with the introduction of a player-to-player material market, but under the following restrictions:

1. To curb RMT attempts, the in-between trade currency is Arx. Not Credits.
2. To prevent pay-to-win, the weekly trading limit per player is 400 Arx. If you reach that limit, you can still sell, but not buy, mats. Only purchases are counted against that limit.

Another noteworthy side effect is that this would allow you to grind for your skins by letting others pay for you (within their free Arx limit of course).

Although ARX are amassable (slowly) in game you can still buy them, they are effectively currency, and items are now more expensive than they were before if you use/buy ARX.

I do agree in principal about getting away from the grind and the Jameson (whisky ) logging etc. but I cannot think of a valid way to make it less grindy.
There are so many different views and ideas that it becomes a minefield and they may not change it anyway as it does keep people initially (for a year or two) in game longer.
Pug

 

[Ettanin]

Although ARX are amassable (slowly) in game you can still buy them, they are effectively currency, and items are now more expensive than they were before if you use/buy ARX.

That is why the weekly limit for buying mats with arx in my suggestion matches the weekly limit for getting arx through gameplay, so that it won't matter that you can buy it, in the end making it impossible to buy mats for real money. The only thing you could do that way is bailing you out of the weekly arx grind.

 

[Chaparral]

I would much rather have missions with larger numbers of mats as rewards.

 

[Fake Newts]

I would much rather have missions with larger numbers of mats as rewards.

Higher quantities would be something, I'd really like to be able to negotiate the materials you want from a particular mission giver. Not just for convenience as a player, but also as a way to encourage participation in the BGS's primary moving part.

One of the biggest issues I have with material gathering is that the discrepancy in time spent between methods is so wide as to be effectively removing choice, and in some cases no choice really existed in the first place. If you want Imperial Shielding but don't enjoy cycling HGEs you're technically able to trade random drops for them, but it'd take you so much longer as to barely count as an alternative for anyone with a set goal in mind. Many people have a set goal in mind, and expecting them not to seems unreasonable. For a game that purportedly lets you 'blaze your own trail' the specific trails that lead to materials are quite inflexible (and heavily biased towards risk-free/skill-free play, which is a matter of taste but seems odd to me).

Failing multiple viable paths, it'd be nice if modifications that benefited a particular role were achievable by engaging in that role, rather than by disengaging and doing something else. Like, want a better plasma accelerator? Go shoot something with plasma. Want a better FSD? Go explore. That might be too mainstream an approach for wacky old Fdev though.

 

[Jmanis]

I would much rather have missions with larger numbers of mats as rewards.

Larger number of mats =larger mission reward.

I don't know what you consider larger, but say a surface scan mission rewarded 20 G5 materials, that means the payout would be 9-10m credits alternately. That's way too much for such a simple mission.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

I would much rather have missions with larger numbers of mats as rewards.

I think a larger VARIETY of mats offered as a reward would probably work better than increasing the amount.

... I'd really like to be able to negotiate the materials you want from a particular mission giver...

I did also like this idea of been able to choose/ select a particular type of mat as a reward.

Big no to buying/ selling mats though, not needed at all imo.

 

[Misty_Dark]

Great Post, I could not have said it better.
Bottom line is, Everyone is different with likes and dislikes on Their Game play.
And everyone has a Opinion on how They think it should be, based on their Personal view.
And all are correct, for their personal game play, just don't put everyone in your box.
Just Give the Option for Players to choose How and What they like to do.

My Opinion is: Allowing Mats to be Sold or Bought, would give ALL players, Beginners to Elite,
more Freedom with their Game Play.
This could also Give FC owners an opportunity to Earn Funds or Upgrades for their ships.
Maybe Material Traders could also Buy and Sell Tritium, and offer missions to Deliver to FC's.

Take off the Blinders and lets give Freedom of choice to All.

The problem is that this for most implementations will invite gold sellers, and if there is economic incentive, they will use bots to collect stuff, to sell for real money...

And this is mostly bad for the game. And if it was implemented in way to would block gold sellers, you would not be able to set the price, or sell/trade with a specific player, it would need to be central market, where you can offer your stuff for a fixes price. Which most likely would mean that most players would be upset about this...

And one thing that can be observed in other games where players can set prices in the market, is that the inflation for the top gear is insane. There are plenty of players sitting on legacy engineered weapons that still are god tier +++ to what we can do today.


Then the other problem with this kind of mechanics, is that FDev would have no incentive to fix any of the material gathering game loops, if you do not like it, use the market... which could be filled with good stuff, but insanely expensive, or just filled with crap item due to fixed prices. Think the Guardian unlocks, the INITIAL requirements, with a player market, there would be no incentive at all to lower the requirements from FDev. just buy from another player who did it. is that how you would like FDev to manage adding new stuff, bolt som ebig frind and you have to just deal with it, as any complaints now would mostly fall on deaf ears, as you can always use the "market.", so what is there to fix..


I have seen very few games that have a good player market, that does not encourage gold sellers to offers trade for real cash, and to gather stuff they will all the tricks available to automate collections, so using bots etc. So all that convenience you only want to see with you blinders, makes you miss all the problems, so perhaps you should remove your own blinders, as it is clear that you have not bothered about all the negatives these sorts of mechanics tend to lead to.


But if you sitting on thousands of dollars that is burning a hole in your pocket, and you jsut want to Pay your way top progress, then of course this would be you wet dream come true with any such mechanics.

 

[Chaparral]

Larger number of mats =larger mission reward.

I don't know what you consider larger, but say a surface scan mission rewarded 20 G5 materials, that means the payout would be 9-10m credits alternately. That's way too much for such a simple mission.

Yes I agree. Scaling with mission level would be one approach. 20 G1 at harmless, and higher tier at higher ranks.

It would be awesome if it was dynamically scaled, number and tier bartered for - but increased danger on the reward.

 

[Spacegamejunkie]

Using NPC Material Traders ONLY, for buying and selling, should keep it within bounds, with no exploitation.
Only allow a Material Trader or agent on FC's, as a way for their owners, to have another source of income.
And by using all Traders Current Stock of each mat, you could set the current cost, based on supply and demand.

 

[Misty_Dark]

Using NPC Material Traders ONLY, for buying and selling, should keep it within bounds, with no exploitation.
Only allow a Material Trader or agent on FC's, as a way for their owners, to have another source of income.
And by using all Traders Current Stock of each mat, you could set the current cost, based on supply and demand.

So what would be good cost then?

how much should you pay a highly in demand G5 stuff?


Then compare your numbers with how long it would take to make those amount of credits, we are now where most experience players can relatively easy make over 100 million/credits per hour, doing various activities. Now doing the best credit earning activities, is still netting players over 200 million/hour.

And the top are still at over 500 million/hour, now it can be reached with combat, before it was mining.

So it is quite important to put a relation how long does it take to make the credits needed..


And if you expect this to be a kind of a market. where stuff available must be collected by another players, this hugely influences how many players that want to collect and sell stuff.. for example, if the payout is only 10 million/hour to collect and sell G5 stuff, why should alot of players be doing it?
And if the payout for collecting and selling mats is lets say, 200 million/hour, then much more players are going to be invested in this.
But if the earning potential for selling stuff is 1 000 million/hour, then you now forcing potential buyers out fo the market, as they would now need spend more time collecting the needed credits to buy the stuff, and this time could now very well be more than what they would need to spend to actually collecting the stuff themselves.

But if the supply is unlimited for buying, then there would be no real changes that is based on supply/demand. And you have still not covered the main issue why we have multiple currencies in games. Ingame inflation, Making over 200 million credits/hour was not possible in the first year of the game. back then credits was an important asset that was for most challenging to get. Back then it took some 20 hours or so for a dedicated player to earn enough credits to buy an Anaconda. now a fresh player can without help do this by themselves in less than 8 hours from a clean save! and if they have help, this can be done within 15 minutes!

 

[Spacegamejunkie]

s

So what would be good cost then?

how much should you pay a highly in demand G5 stuff?


Then compare your numbers with how long it would take to make those amount of credits, we are now where most experience players can relatively easy make over 100 million/credits per hour, doing various activities. Now doing the best credit earning activities, is still netting players over 200 million/hour.

And the top are still at over 500 million/hour, now it can be reached with combat, before it was mining.

So it is quite important to put a relation how long does it take to make the credits needed..


And if you expect this to be a kind of a market. where stuff available must be collected by another players, this hugely influences how many players that want to collect and sell stuff.. for example, if the payout is only 10 million/hour to collect and sell G5 stuff, why should alot of players be doing it?
And if the payout for collecting and selling mats is lets say, 200 million/hour, then much more players are going to be invested in this.
But if the earning potential for selling stuff is 1 000 million/hour, then you now forcing potential buyers out fo the market, as they would now need spend more time collecting the needed credits to buy the stuff, and this time could now very well be more than what they would need to spend to actually collecting the stuff themselves.

But if the supply is unlimited for buying, then there would be no real changes that is based on supply/demand. And you have still not covered the main issue why we have multiple currencies in games. Ingame inflation, Making over 200 million credits/hour was not possible in the first year of the game. back then credits was an important asset that was for most challenging to get. Back then it took some 20 hours or so for a dedicated player to earn enough credits to buy an Anaconda. now a fresh player can without help do this by themselves in less than 8 hours from a clean save! and if they have help, this can be done within 15 minutes!

So adding this to the Game really changes nothing, based on what you say.
The only thing that it would really do, is offer more choice and options for a Player.
It really means nothing to me What your credit Balance is.
What does matter, is that you have a Full G5 modded Ship, that I can not stand up to,
while being stuck behind a wall of grind that prevents me from being BALANCED to you.
I don't mind the Grind if it is reasonable, like a Day, instead of weeks, to get my ship Up to par.
So I am just looking for a way around, the less than enjoyable, tedium, in order to Play MY game.
If you know a Better solution, Please do tell.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

What does matter, is that you have a Full G5 modded Ship, that I can not stand up to,
while being stuck behind a wall of grind that prevents me from being BALANCED to you.
I don't mind the Grind if it is reasonable, like a Day,

In all multiplayer games you're going to face people who have been playing longer than you, have better equipment than you. You think that it should only take a day to level up with them?

 

[Spacegamejunkie]

YES, 3 at most

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

YES, 3 at most

An honest answer but a naive one.

 

[Spacegamejunkie]

Realistic, Time is money, and once spent is gone forever

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Realistic, Time is money, and once spent is gone forever

It's not realistic though, is it?

At that rate, you may as well eliminate all progression, make all ships the same with no possible enhancements, so that a veteran of years has the same ship as a day old noob.

 

[Rat Catcher]

We have the usual complaint that players are 'forced' to do things they don't want to do in order to have what many others already have, totally irrelevent as to how long said other players may have been playing...

The CM's mentioned that mat collecting was being 'looked at' so maybe Odyssey will see some changes...

Realistic, Time is money, and once spent is gone forever

Possibly 'wasting' such a valuable resource playing a 'sandbox' type game isn't such a wise decision?

 

[Fake Newts]

Levelling up isn't a problem in and of itself, but the lack of compelling choice in a game that supposedly supports different roles is jarring.

In the current system it's possible to go from a Sidewinder to 2 minmaxed engineered medium ships in approximately 25 hours of play (average from a small sample of players getting alts 'pvp ready', give or take a bit with RNG). Compared to many MMOs it's not a huge amount of time, lots seem to have a campaign component or extended tutorial that lasts a while - what's unique about Elite is the likelihood of disconnect between a player's goal and the task required to achieve it, particularly if you're a combat oriented player.

Someone mentioned Destiny earlier which I have only dabbled in briefly, but there your goal is to get better guns and shoot things. The 'levelling up phase' of the game consists of getting better guns and shooting things. In Elite that 25 or so hours of engineer legwork involves a large amount of tranquil prospecting and a very tiny amount of shooting things, and even when shooting things is an option it's a suboptimal one, to put it lightly.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with tranquil prospecting, but it's not everyone's cup of tea. Combat is the area that most benefits from engineering, but is the area that advances engineering goals the least. I think a big part of the frustration people express in threads like this can be traced to this. The reverse is also true; I know some exploration oriented players who resent any imposition of combat on their playtime whatsoever, I think you just hear about this less because that career is not heavily gated in any practical sense by any other.

Engineers as a content patch was clearly designed to 'encourage' people to try different aspects of the game. Not a bad thing in principle, but arguably one doesn't need to 'try' mining to the tune of 500 tons to figure out if you like mining or not. It's a question of bias and scale, in my opinion. Based on Elite's pitch and the varying preferences of its playerbase I think many have the expectation that the game will let people find their groove and progress within it.

EDIT: to keep it on topic, I actually don't think that purchasable materials would be a good piece of game design and those arguing against it have some strong points. What I can say however is that if I was offered it I would take it in the game's current state, but only as a 'patch' for what's, in my eyes, a deeper design flaw.

 

[Misty_Dark]

s

So adding this to the Game really changes nothing, based on what you say.
The only thing that it would really do, is offer more choice and options for a Player.
It really means nothing to me What your credit Balance is.
What does matter, is that you have a Full G5 modded Ship, that I can not stand up to,
while being stuck behind a wall of grind that prevents me from being BALANCED to you.
I don't mind the Grind if it is reasonable, like a Day, instead of weeks, to get my ship Up to par.
So I am just looking for a way around, the less than enjoyable, tedium, in order to Play MY game.
If you know a Better solution, Please do tell.

What more choice?
you will still "blindly" follow all the cookie cutter fastest ways to get to your goal, if that means, re-logging at some place for 2 hours straight, you would most likely do that, instead of doing something else for 4 hours to collect the needed stuff.

And that I have ag5 modded ship that you cannot stand up to, please tell me what other MMO game does not require you to do alot of other stuff to collect your gear? expecially if you wantt to engage in PvP! This is not turning int o a Pay to win argumentation... you do nto want to play tthe game, you just want to be spoonfed with all the stuff, and then sinmply throw money at the problem, as you do not want to waste your precious time on somthing stupid like a game.


What is next, you want to have the entire fleet some players have gathered over the years by spending thousands of hours at it! and you shoudl get it in hours? So you are willing to diminsih all those player time for youer "quickfix", talk about selfish. ME, ME, ME, ME first attitude.