Create two versions of Open: One each for PvP (Enabled) & PvE (PvP Disabled)

[CMDR Cknarf]

“We need to make some adjustments so more ships are viable. Some things are kinda OP to the point where they’re almost broken, resulting in a stale meta.” - PvP community.

“These changes will hardly affect me, but I hate them anyway because I got ganked once.” - The Forums

 

[Dragsham]

Gankers and by this term we mean mindless pvp with no rp or goal apart from just the thrill of the hunt/kill.
And open its OK cos we all are aware they exist and spoil the game .....
Yes.
Or do they?
Whatever mmo or wotever you play you'll encounter em. Some games annex them to arenas or pvp servers etc. Here in open they are allowed freedom to do pretty much what they like in well known hotspots like decait etc.
You can't stop this. It's intrinsic human nature to be aggressive. The dark side.
And the status quo isn't working either.
Annexing would work. Separation isolation leave em to themselves.
The 3 states we have currently just allow anyone with half a brain to do what they want to do. As it stands the games fine.
Really I think bugs aside the overall aspects are fab.
But pvp c&p etc is broken.
Needs something and all suggestions imply annex or isolation which is unfair.
One world one galaxy one logon.
Then you'd have a game.
But l get it....not to everyone's tastes. Some just don't want any conflict. Others just wanna haul or just pve.
It's a shame there's no middle ground.
It's a bigger shame there's no pvp accountability. Not serious consequences as there would be in a real advanced society.
That's the flaw to me. Letting em run riot fudges it for everyone else.
Open only pvp enclaves and barred pvp enclaves would go along way to remedy. As would a decent law n order system.

 

[AnimatedDust]

We don't even have storage in stations but you want 2 versions of open play and that triggers 6 pages of replies. At times I think people come to this section of the forums just to chat and socialize, because the ideas they propose are outrageous to say at the very least.

 

[khalismur]

One world one galaxy one logon.
Then you'd have a game.
[...]
It's a bigger shame there's no pvp accountability. Not serious consequences as there would be in a real advanced society.

These are the key points IMO. Ideally it'd be only one shared galaxy among all commanders, platforms, groups, etc. And you'd have better in-game systems to deal with spammers, griefers, gankers, etc. The solution to that by FDev, which is to divide the galaxy into 'safe' game modes, isn't ideal.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

The second one is more then sufficient to not get ganked ?!

My comment was targeting people who insist to socialize in open, in a shifit 3D shielded Asp, while handing in stuff in ShinDez,
but then complain open is evil and they want ANOTHER mode next to solo/PG so that they can fly their merry way o7ing around.

Open is open, just keep it that way. You want to have your cake and eat it too? Not gonna happen. Use solo/PG.
For the same reasons weighted open or open only power play gets shot down. The game is as it is, live with it.

Think you've vastly missread the op's purpose. It's the pvp crowd who's constantly whining about changes. Forcing people into open. Saying groups/solo shouldn't get the same benefit etc etc. Calling for shield and FDL nerfs etc etc.

A pve open server solves all this. Unless the actual motivation for all these whine threads is just to have more people available to gank? Which I've personally always suspected is the case.

Also it's a bit...telling that the only player interaction in open that's described on this forum is player vs player violence. Not players grouping to collaborate on objectives or any of the normal things done in every other online game.

 

[Vedmo]

No greater immersion breaker for me in a game than the absurdities that are inevitably born from PVE mechanics/restrictions. As someone who spends a fair amount of time in solo (complete lack of interest in playing with others on most days), I would miss solo for the single player experience as well.

I'd rather deal with armies of purple haired Commanders with unpronounceable names constantly breaking the 4th wall with real world chatter than spend time in an open PVE setting that forced through game mechanics a far larger suspension of belief (selective immunity from "reality").

 

[Ettanin]

No greater immersion breaker for me in a game than the absurdities that are inevitably born from PVE mechanics/restrictions. As someone who spends a fair amount of time in solo (complete lack of interest in playing with others on most days), I would miss solo for the single player experience as well.

I'd rather deal with armies of purple haired Commanders with unpronounceable names constantly breaking the 4th wall with real world chatter than spend time in an open PVE setting that forced through game mechanics a far larger suspension of belief (selective immunity from "reality").

Nobody said anything about removing solo. Solo has to exist because otherwise console players couldn't play without paying the console tax.

 

[Misty_Dark]

It would indeed be a challenge solely because of the ingenuity shown by those who just wish to be disruptive, I don't have answers, although 'Smart' Weapons would prevent the 'accidental' shots hitting a non-targeted player - removing collision damage whilst retaining the ability to use ramming tactics against NPC's is a toughie...

Other MMO's must have had to solve the issues, knowledge can be shared, so approaches to 'getting around' devious thought may already exist.

(Not that I believe for one second that Frontier would take any notice of this suggestion - as I fondly hope no notice is taken by the other requests to change my game to please someone else)

Some of the common practices I feel would break the immersion, like removing player collisions, and being able to fly through player ships, and how woudl this map to Private Groups? would we get "options" or private groups to make these like Open PvE or Open PvP?

So what I fear is that the things we need todo is to detrimental to the game...


I keep thinking of this player who was really trusting, and would not believe how far some players would go to just be mean to other players, but I explained to him the reason why we have speed limits around the station and in his world this should not be a thing, as you simply should not do that.


So I do like the notion of Open PvE, but I fear the game we would get...

And a fully Open PvP server is also bad, as limited player population and to many systems make for a lousy chance encounter rate, if the server is all about PvP, then atleast it should make it easier for it to happen. So I have seen a couple of Open PvP alternatives that basically take what other MMO's seems to be doing, PvP areas.. and we could the same in Elite, find some area, and permit lock it, So enter this area, you need to actively choose to visit the PvP area. it could as simple as insta transfer into this zone, from where ever you are, you ahve access to all your ships, and into the PvP zone you go. and when done, you simply leave the PvP zone, and are back in the ship where you left of. Just like how many other MMO's do it. So for those who are into PvP, you have your zone, that is restricted and have its own zone specific BGS, and Powerplay etc.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Also it's a bit...telling that the only player interaction in open that's described on this forum is player vs player violence. Not players grouping to collaborate on objectives or any of the normal things done in every other online game.

I agree with the main thrust of the rest of your post, but we do some of what you're talking about here. Buckyball racing for one. Recently there was a group cataloging HP systems iirc, or some such thing. The Raxxla gang were are currently doing a similar thing. Trawling back through a bunch of systems in case anything was over looked. Distant Worlds. Some are more celebrated than others. They do happen though.

 

[Starshot_Jigawatts]

I agree with the main thrust of the rest of your post, but we do some of what you're talking about here. Buckyball racing for one. Recently there was a group cataloging HP systems iirc, or some such thing. The Raxxla gang were are currently doing a similar thing. Trawling back through a bunch of systems in case anything was over looked. Distant Worlds. Some are more celebrated than others. They do happen though.

True but the only way you can even find out or join those events is getting on someone's Discord server. The lack of grouping/social tools IN GAME in Elite is just shocking to me.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

True but the only way you can even find out or join those events is getting on someone's Discord server. The lack of grouping/social tools IN GAME in Elite is just shocking to me.

I'm on no discord server and I know/knew about them. I know about them through this forum, however, I agree, to reach a wider audience, if I wanted to put together a team to undertake some project, having an in game bulletin board would be good.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Yes there would have to be limits, say 10% of Cargo and enough victims to keep the pirates busy.

At 10% of cargo the trader makes more profit (on most goods) than the pirate even if they abandon the cargo.

I think to make this sort of thing work, it needs to be entirely detached from the pretence that it's happening as part of the "sandbox" game, and make it a formal event.

Then you can set build requirements, behaviour requirements, and so on that make it actually work - and also solve the problem of where you get people to be the pirates because every team in the event plays both sides at some point.

 

[Vedmo]

Nobody said anything about removing solo. Solo has to exist because otherwise console players couldn't play without paying the console tax.

You're quite correct, I just got PVE/PVP system stuck in my head and compared it to other games and dismissed solo. I'd still be opposed to PVE open/PVP open/solo set up though, as I place importance on everyone interacting with the environment and others in the same way, regardless of mode. For all its flaws, I actually find the compromise Frontier made with our current system to be a very good one.

Also it's a bit...telling that the only player interaction in open that's described on this forum is player vs player violence. Not players grouping to collaborate on objectives or any of the normal things done in every other online game.

True but the only way you can even find out or join those events is getting on someone's Discord server. The lack of grouping/social tools IN GAME in Elite is just shocking to me.

I can only speak to my experiences, but in the course of the last few years and easily 1k hours in open I've had very limited player interaction of any kind. I'm pretty sure I'm still under 5 for the number of times I've been attacked by another player, definitely under 10. I don't recall every time I've organically bumped into someone and spent some time playing with them, and while it isn't some crazy high number, I'd guess it's 15- 20. It would be a lot more if my answer to any suggestion of joining a discord or anything like that wasn't no thanks, as that apparently prevents many from being able to group up in game. What I have done though, is wing up for trade missions with people I've crossed paths with while hauling, winged up for bounty hunting, goid hunting, and CZs when running into someone, and the biggest player interaction payoff by far was when some of the good folks with Operation Ida noticed me repairing stations, and even after my refusals to join discord were happy to stay in contact purely through the game to join up for repair hauling.

To be fair, those numbers are definitely formed by my own behavior to an extent, as I will more often than not preemptively move to solo to avoid players in high traffic areas in which I am assuming (maybe incorrectly, idk) player interaction would be largely hostile.

So far as grouping/social tools in game, I do agree. The last time I was really deeply invested socially into a game was a while ago (I had a Ventrillo server for reference...) so I'm out of the loop on this I imagine, but I do wonder to what extent game developers neglect that area under the assumption the social side and coordination efforts will be taken care of with Discord or similar tools.

 

[Bigmaec]

The number of player interactions I had in open outnumber the pewpewgankings by far

apart from the standard community goals I took part in:

• the first thargoid war, when you as a mortal CMDR had to use a wing of AX ships to even blow up a Cyclops
• the rescue operations at the Oracle and later spaceports
• Operation Ida, repairing the damaged starports
• teabagging
• fuel ratting
• bringing up all Colonia engineers to max stats with Operation Montgomery Scott
• doing excursions like distant worlds II (I wasn't on the roster as I didn't go to Beagle, just took part at EA)
• events like Gnosis etc.
• I even took part in a ganker organized PvP event which wasn't mindless ganking

I bet I even missed a few.

All of the above in open because it spiced it up. This game is just soo much more than pewpewganking, even in open.
But it would be far less without any danger at all.

 

[Rat Catcher]

We don't even have storage in stations

Make a suggestion than - it can't be more outrageous than any other, could it?
(I'm flattered that you needed to create a new account to comment though!)

 

[lemon407]

Just give us a pvp flag option in the ship menu to the right, call it a day.

 

[Angelpichu]

Maybe have weapons act like they have smart rounds if they would hit a PvE player, and kind of appear holographic if you would clip through them, kind of like the ad boards outside stations do & aren't solid?

 

[znôrt]

Exactly as we have now, all PG & Solo do is change who is visible to who -

wait, wait ... but what is to stop people that have chosen "pve open" and see each other ... to actually shoot each other and were back where we started? invulnerability?

so PvE open would effectively be an unlimited size PG, pretty much what solo already is, except, of course, solo makes that group appear to be only one.

that is backwards. ;-) "open" is actually just a random public group. in reality there is no spoon, i mean no open! XD

Is the suggestion a serious one? Not particularly -

that's what i figured but you seemed so dead serious ... nice troll, mr, nice troll indeed! XDDDD

 

[Rat Catcher]

wait, wait ... but what is to stop people that have chosen "pve open" and see each other ... to actually shoot each other and were back where we started? invulnerability?



that is backwards. ;-) "open" is actually just a random public group. in reality there is no spoon, i mean no open! XD



that's what i figured but you seemed so dead serious ... nice troll, mr, nice troll indeed! XDDDD

I've learned from the very best trolls - the ones who demand their cries be heard and that everything they dislike be nerfed or removed.

I know you are not stupid @znôrt - as I hope you realise that I may not be

 

[Robert Maynard]

At times I think people come to this section of the forums just to chat and socialize, because the ideas they propose are outrageous to say at the very least.

Some players make suggestions - other players comment on suggestions, whether in favour or in opposition. As players, we don't all want the same things, yet we all bought (or backed) the same game. Some bought a game that suits them and are happy with it; some bought the game then realised that its design means that their preferred play-style is not possible so want it changed to suit them, with little or no regard to the players that would be affected by such changes.