Naaa just pulling your leg mate all is good! I’m a joker you know that.lol If Im a peasant its only coz Ive spent so much on ED1 full price ED & Horizons for me and 2 Elite controllers in total now, 1 full price ED & Horizons for my nephew and 1 extra XB and controller and TV so I could actually get on the game in my own house!
Just be aware at least one console player objects to being called a peasant on the forums, they dont post here so youre probably safe, but you may get reported for wider use on other threads and not sure if its counted as flaming or not. I know its a joke from most people including you on this one, but some people may not take it as such, especially if it is due to money or low income. Personally I'm just too lazy to keep up with PC maintenance and upgrades etc
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
- Thread starter Yaffle
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Could very well be possible, in EDO, soon...impossible in SC, at the moment, and possibly forever, to be fair. <<wait, or can you do that? lol kinda wish I could last more than 5 minutes without it crashing...back to Frontline Solutions, I mean EDO>>I did mention I was being harsh and unfair to FDev...I loved the story lines, same as I loved imagining the stories every time I found an abandoned ship on a planet or moon. That's not to say I wasn't disappointed with the stories having absolutely no place or function within the game...they were tack-on throwaway things, but I loved them none the less.
...But what I would have given to be able to leave my SRV to enter and explore these wreckages on the inside...
Elite Cliffhanger? It is a bit the curse and doom of the show - perpetual story telling is baked à la recipe. Annoyed me a lot with Bioware, up to the point where they actually don't finish their stories any more and leave loose ends around for a later installment. Which may never come. Cliffhangers work for TV shows where you have to wait for the next batch maybe up to a year, but not for games which will see the light maybe 4 years down the line or later.To be slightly harsh and unfair to FDev and ED...I spent many days in game following the generation ships story, listening to very immersive voice recordings...which went absolutely nowhere. I also tracked the Thargoid story around various deserted bases collecting data, finding Cmdr Jameson's abandoned ship, discovering his betrayal and once again, very immersive voice recordings laying out what had happened...and got absolutely nowhere. There's Raxxla, Salami's story all that other stuff that I craved that also predictably went absolutely nowhere.
In the end, FDev have released space legs with the focus being on space pew with space guns, all to follow the PvP or adversarial PvE money train...like the previous version of multicrew or RNGineers... More shallow, quick fix gameplay to garner interest from the more casual type of gamer instead of catering to the long term. Where is EVA, ship interiors and associated longer serving gameplay?
Where's my ending to the stories of the generation ships and beginnings of the Thargoid wars FDev?
I'll go back to playing ED for a while with Odyssey of course, as will many others who may have dropped along the way over the years...but is there enough in that one marketing feature of space legs for me to put another 5,500 hours in to ED? Probably not.
The problem is that they A) really can’t come to a conclusion without legs B) Still need to learn the fundamentals why we play space games, and C) the engine tech need to catch up, I believe we now at least regarding engine is in a good place with ED, not so much in SC.To be slightly harsh and unfair to FDev and ED...I spent many days in game following the generation ships story, listening to very immersive voice recordings...which went absolutely nowhere. I also tracked the Thargoid story around various deserted bases collecting data, finding Cmdr Jameson's abandoned ship, discovering his betrayal and once again, very immersive voice recordings laying out what had happened...and got absolutely nowhere. There's Raxxla, Salami's story all that other stuff that I craved that also predictably went absolutely nowhere.
In the end, FDev have released space legs with the focus being on space pew with space guns, all to follow the PvP or adversarial PvE money train...like the previous version of multicrew or RNGineers... More shallow, quick fix gameplay to garner interest from the more casual type of gamer instead of catering to the long term. Where is EVA, ship interiors and associated longer serving gameplay?
Where's my ending to the stories of the generation ships and beginnings of the Thargoid wars FDev?
I'll go back to playing ED for a while with Odyssey of course, as will many others who may have dropped along the way over the years...but is there enough in that one marketing feature of space legs for me to put another 5,500 hours in to ED? Probably not.
Do some people call you the space cowboy?
Do some people call you the gangster of love?
Are you a midnight toker?
Many, many moons ago, I did this:
CIG blatantly ripped me off! It's Star Kitty all over again!
Every so often a thread will appear asking something along the lines of 'Is this the end? / What do I do next?' with regard to one of those stories. The problem is Im gonna sound like a fanboi talking about Elite.
These stories are optional, I know people who never go anywhere near them and frankly dont care about the lore, which is fine its their choice. Its not a SP game with an ending or even a clue to the next one. I call these stories the 'No payoff' missions.
However, have you ever read a really good book with a really good story with twists and turns and youre totally engrossed...then you finish it.....and you know you will never have that experience again? Next time you read it you know the ending, you might enjoy the story but the the twists and turns dont have the same effect coz you know how it turns out.
Elite has always had open-ending stories for this reason. Started with 'The Dark Wheel' in 1984. Without that book the game would have been brilliant but would it have lasted 4 decades?
All the mini-stories (Gen Ships / Salome etc) are self-contained, they do fit into the larger background but they are separate, and optional. If they had a definitive answer that would be the end of that, we'd know the ending. So it is deliberate to do it that way. Raxxla and the Dark Wheel being solved would 'finish' the game for a lot of people, we have the answer. Its the last episode in that 'show' that you watched for years and will never be as good as you imagined it would be (X Files?).
Some of them do need a follow-up I agree. Best example is one where you follow leads to a pirate installation and rescue a secret agent. Then you hand him in at a certain station......and nothing, nothing at all, not even a message. It just dies right there. No payoff. Hours of fun and it just ends suddenly.
But either they have a payoff and we know what happens, or they dont and we imagine forever what happened. Which is better? If you play lots of games then it needs an ending or you may be disappointed, if you only play a few and really delve into the lores of them its better to leave it open ended and not actually finalise anything but just add another mini-story 'over there' that may be linked or may not. That can go on forever. Once the jigsaw is complete theres nothing left, usually it then goes back in the box, very few people frame it and put it on the wall.
They are expanding the lore constantly now with the new 2 year story that will have a point we need to get to..for something to happen / the next major stage and it may well tie up a few loose endings after that, the 2 years is the beginning to set the scene for the major plot thats coming. It contains many mini-stories.
They found a way to keep the dream alive and in our imagination, so did SC but they monetised it to the n'th degree, not many games can do this and keep their fans onboard, too many distractions and new games that come and go.
2 years puts the game ED at approx 11 years from KS. Originally they had a 10 year development plan including ship interiors, they just releasing it in stages so the may be a year behind ish at the end. I firmly believe after EDO that they will work on the final bits including ship interiors and fauna and the rest and then it will be 'complete' to original design just approx 1 year late (11 years total). Then they probably start work on all the stuff they have thought of during the 11 years that would have been featurecreep if theyd gone off plan and delayed what they had promised in the first place. And it doesnt rely on Jesus tech or subscriptions or ship sales or P2W. The game is not finished until the original design is in game...and that includes interiors, all ships were designed from the beginning to walk around, not a hull and then redesign afterwards to catch up, they knew at the beginning how they would 'work', they just havent finished it yet. Soe things are best left until the game is complete as once you know it you cant unknow it. Thargoids for example, would have been good in 2014 at release, but better to wait post-Horizons and make them better, we will probably see Tharg FPS and leg play 'soon'
but they may wait until everything is in place before we get the full experience of them. Designing the train that will run on the tracks but not letting it leave the station it until all the tracks are in place and it knows it can get to the end and not run out of rails and it has somewhere to arrive at.Dreams.txt yes, but also based on original KS plan and the history of Frontier actually delivering over time what was in that plan. Its not Alpha but its not complete yet....and then the real fun begins when we can do everything they raised funds for in the first place....and then they can add in the real dreams.txt afterwards.
I think we can all agree on one thing.
At least we're not playing Line of Defence
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRFCmI544HI&t=360s
(Props to SA)
At least we're not playing Line of Defence
(Props to SA)
Oh yes, that Startship Troopers moment, I am so looking forward to.
Unfortunate that Half Life got to the brain sucking moment already but whatevs.
Some people have forgotten that Star Citizen is a video game. This was mentioned a lot early on but somehow it lost its meaning now that its abundandly clear that it cannot be used in its defense as it could back then.
A nice goal but IMO on par with anything else CiG annonces these days with as much credibility. Chris Roberts, due to his own doing has squandered his biggest quality without a released game to back him up. If CiG would announce such a thing today people simply wouldnt believe it but then....they dont have to and never had to begin with. Star Citizen not reaching its self-proclaimed goals and milestones is CiGs fault alone, nobody elses. Not the haters, not the skeptics, the critics, the hitpieces.
The world not believing something or ridiculing it doesnt avert change or prevents it from happening. CiG was positioned in such a way (by design) that it wasnt dependant on outside goodwill or continuous funding. They got all the money they needed, multiple times over. They had absolutely no pressure from above to come true on their promises. Basically, the SC project could ve gone under for 3 years, go radio silent and release completed without anybody getting a single sneak peek.
Why havent it?
Where the promises too ambitious and challenges too impossible to overcome? Was the funding dramatically underestimated or did the total cost change afterwards? Was there ever a formulated design paper outlining obstacles and timelines or was it always just the infectious loudmouthing by a charismatic but clueless person?
What are the reasons for Star Citizen, this ambitious and promising project to end up 6 years overdue, running out of money, with investors on board dictating things and unforseen obstacles creeping up left right and center and having no end point in sight? Worse....10 years into active development, the IDEA of Star Citizen is as fluid was it was back in 2012, trying to accomodate all opinions, all wishes and by doing so showing a chaotic development that bars believing in its inaptitude and incompetence.
Goodwill, patience and monetary loyalty never have helped and wont help to complete the project. It didnt happen to this point, if anything, the project has become more chaotic, more wild and more impossible then it has been in 2016 because of it.
You prove skeptics and haters wrong by showing results, demonstrating superiority and proving them wrong. Not by laughing at them and stubbornly refusing to listen to their points. Criticism in Star Citizen has always been a sore point. From the first witch hunts to fierce loyalty swarm attacks to unfair moderation and blatant shilling...Star Citizen being believed to be a running scam has its reasons due to the similarity of established scams and this project.
That being said, if CiG would announce another 2 year window until Squadron Ep1 release people would of course wait...what else can they possibly do? Backers have ZERO sway or impact on whats happening on the project. They dont get explanations and whatever they say doesnt change anything.
Star Citizen backers are getting "shroomed" (picked that up in Bosch
) and its funny because its so true since the earliest days. And I dont believe most posts claiming to be impartial or "not minding" possible results and delays one bit. Today, after a decade of fandom damages are real and painful. Invested people are getting increasingly sore and sensitive, unable to ignore teasing and jokes on their cost. Apart from money lost the misplaced trust and loyalty hurts much more, the continous failures by CiG working right into the haters hands and predictions and the follow-up refusal to acknowledge them.Living in denial is something I truly understasd since I picked up this debate because of all the examples the shills and loyalists continue to provide on an almost daily basis.
The only people who can TRULY enjoy this show, laugh heartily and joke without remorse are the people outside, the so-called "haters" who point and laugh and populate this thread (I know a lot of posters here are or were actually backers...still). Or people who have truly "given up" on the project ever coming to life. They are able to have a good time and enjoy the watching. The worst that can happen to them is that Star Citiizen, despite all evidence and signs becomes a smashing success.
Oh noes, the horror! Star Citizen becoming a fully released, actual FUN game people can play and enjoy. With qualities and features other game studios admire and envy them for. /sarcasm
If you hold any kind of hope or desire for Star Citizen the project just keeps disappointing you and keeping you at arms lenght. A lot of people already realized this but of course, a sizable number of people isnt that far yet. And this is evident when you listen to any credible source of opinion. People holding out and waiting, being frustrated but keeping precious memories to hold em above water. I consider anybody "credible" who is able to acknowledge reality and seperate facts from wishful thinking. That already renders a lot of white knights and pro-peoples input worthless. Credible sources for Star Citizen are as rare as the projects qualities I m afraid.
Two problems here. The less likely problem is that the community wouldnt accept new leadership, not the currently loyal and financing part of the community. Some people continue to throw money at Star Citizen and thus representing the true business model of the project simply believing Chris Roberts and his henchmen. if you dont believe the big man himself you simply chose another spokesperson further down the ladder who you like for whatever reasons which essentially is the same. Chris Roberts is so entwined with the project claiming ideas, personality and the projects SOUL that him dropping out would signal complete failure or loss of identity. I cant be sure but too many people rally behind Chris Roberts and his thotts believing despite actual results and reality that whatever reasons they have built internally to keep going would be shattered by the man leaving. Needless to say that Chris Roberts leaving the project would be just the tip of the iceberg because you can safely assume that if he leaves a lot of other people will leave as well thus throwing the whole project in transitional disarray and chaos with mostly the drones remaining who never had a clue whats happening to begin with.
The other reason is that Chris Robert simply wont give up the money teat he found. He will simply squeeze and suck harder than ever to get the last penny before hes cut loose. Whats the shame and embarassment when you have undeserved millions and luxury to comfort yourself with? A persons integrity will determine how far he/she will go with the whole thing. After watching Chris Roberts for a decade actively and learning about his past I cant say I hold much hope for Roberts integrity which provides a pretty dark picture for Star Citizens future and explains its rocky history very well. We can safely assume that money isnt Roberts only desire in this thing (unlike his wifes who left as soon as the money shower dried up). In addition to monetary compensation for his grandness he also seeks personal confirmation to verify his views. His superior imagination and directioral qualities equal to the greatest in the business. Money is a nice consolation but he seeks admiration and reputation. You can see it on his person whenever he stands on stage being applauded and cheered but also in his personal reactions observable in interviews and letters. He actually recognizes failures and mistakes but refuses to own them or blames others for it. His underlings, his fans, his critics even tho he is the ultimate power in this project and has self-admittatly micro-managed it into its current state. Maybe he doesnt anymore but its too late. People wonder for YEARS where Star Citizen is heading and the company working on the dream seems to be unable to provide any answers.....its all very telling.
While true I dont believe that new suckers coming in level out the number of people becoming disgruntled or leaving. Star Citizen has had its biggest influx of cattle at its very beginning when it tapped into the hungry hordes of sci-fi and space simulation fans waiting for something new and flashy. You still have the people who were simply kids and children at the beginning of the project who have raised into a position that allows them to buy whatever they want (by growing up and earning their own money) but this is at best a tickle of new people signing up due to the time involved.
And while Star Citizen warnings and criticism was quickly hidden or shouted over early on its back and forth is a well known phenomenon today and blatantly obvious whenever you look into the matter. Not even CiGs own moderated playground is safe from warnings, criticism and venting anymore. Of course you are correct still and it shows in how completely and unforgivably people "faiiling from faith" are cut lose. It doesnt matter if you were Star Citizens biggest fan, it doesnt matter how much money you spent on the project. You go from cheered-on embrace to isolation and hate in the blink of an eye if you dare to show and sign of resignation or dare to voice your concerns aloud. The effect is that empathic people who didnt have a problem with SC yet will be offended by proxy when they witness the behavior (as I was years ago). With all the talk about "hate" surrounding Star Citizen discussions I cant shake the impression that the actual "hate" is really only located within the pro-SC camp. Thats the people who first brought the term up and who demonstrate the feeling in their very personal and offensive sharings.
I m sure Star Citizen has had a period of growth but I doubt it has been lasting very long. People leaving the project has been a topic since early 2014 and while you can argue that its been the impatient young people who did that I dont think that leaving has ever stopped since then. At most the project holds its backerbase but loses more people than it gets. It explains CiGs "waiting game" because the end isnt Star Citizens completion but the project running out of funding forcing them to close shop. Posts like "I was a skeptic but I ve come to believe" are either fabricated or the exception that proves the rule.
The project simply has no qualities or features that could sway the existing skeptics and naysayers...something that would be necessary for SC to become a success. Today....Star Citizens brightest promise and hope is that it ll actually releases even tho terms like "release" and "actually" are very fluid and changing things when it comes to Star Citizen.
Personally I dont get the fascination with space legs. For me its at best a gimmick, a "bonus" for the meat of the game...nothing more. I understand that standing outside yourship allows you to grab the scope of things and helps with astonishment but still....all of that is at best bonus material to support the game itself. Or....and some games do this....its a perspective the whole game focuses on which means it ll be the centerpiece of the game and possible activitities within.
Star Citizen doesnt do that. It tries to yes but it fails IMO because space legs in Star Citizen are such an integral part that Star Citizen without space legs would be nothing. Only that the attempts to centralize space legs within Star Citizen disrupts and delays everything to a degree that you gotta ask if its worth the effort? Like Braben said "we could do it now but why would we?"
Getting in and out of your seat in Star Citizen is pretty much the only thing the project has going for it because it does it in such high quality and capacity that its still unique even tho other game studios have picked up the feature and implemented their own versions. For being such a centerpiece of attention and resources space legs in Star Citizen are remarkably bad and basic tho....after 10 years of development. Neither does it have animation2.0 nor any of the many promised features for first-person activities. Animations are rocky and glitchy, actually good looking interactions are on par with cutscenes (bartender for example) and not really high praise for the projects ambitions and superiority.
Anything you do with space legs in Star Citizen, running to and from your bed, going to various places, shops etc is basically a time grind and at best helps with "immersion". Immersion is supposed to be a side product of the game tho....not its focus or primary task. Lots of VR games out there who provide that better and cheaper/more reliably. I never understood the long-lasting fascination with space legs.
Yes, its fascinating to wake up and walk around, or enter your ship smoothly without a black screen or instant interruption........for a few times.
Its getting old pretty quick (for me) and so I disregard space legs and look past it to figure out what else Star Citizen has to offer.
Which isnt a whole lot to be honest. Various lists of activities designed to repeat points and future accomplishments for the sake of length would still be tiny and unremarkable if we would allow the same formulating for other games. But of course double bias and all that.
Apart from the visual aspect Star Citizen in general is remarkably bland, shallow and boring. We might agree on individual activities (mining comes to mind) but again...mining is rather the exception that proves the rule here PLUS mining always has been and probably still is a niche activity drawing a tiny percentage of backers who enjoy doing it (I get it...I love mining myself). There is no shortage of claims and lofty promises lifting Star Citizen to the top of the list when it comes to video games in this genre.....sadly most if not all of those promises and claims are hidden behind wundertech-walls, paywalls and a glacial development speed that would make tortoises look like nascars.
What about physics, the flight sim, buildings and interaction options? Why are all these things so barebones, working half the time and being so basic after years of refinement and remoddeling? Why are there no layers of complexity oin Star Citizen? Fleshed out career paths other than make-believe (I m mining...I m a miner), no research, no skills, no abilities? Planetary tech (a grandious term for textures really) is beautiful but an empty feature as again interaction options or uses for it are barebones or nonexisting. Pretty much everything in Star Citizen is catering to the visual appeal....nothing else. Pixel count and flashy effects....eye candy. There is next to no meat on this bone which makes it eyewash. This visual appeal isnt coming on its own and its also not cheap. If you wonder HOW on earth Star Citizen was able to go through MORE than 400 million dollars and being a long loooong way from release the answer is in your face whenever you log in....
...it looks pretty
Thats all.....thats what "space legs" in Star Citizen is. IMO a waste of time and effort because we get it at the cost of an actual and real game. I can long for a game that offers Star Citizens space legs and fidelity on the side, WANT it badly but I m honest and skeptical enough to recognize that Star Citizen is not that game. And probably never has been.
Yes, i've noticed a shift among certain backers that now the hope is more they get something that can be released rather than dreams.txt writ large.
They are bargaining themselves down from the position that originally got them to "invest" in the first place to a place where they wouldn't have "invested" if it had been like that from the start.
Imagine in 9 years ago CIG had come to the market saying "We will make the best space game ever, but in 9 years it will still be in alpha with 50 players per server cap, just 1 star system (but pinky swear, we will have over 100 eventually) and a few game loops, oh and we will rely on you keeping funding for many years, selling you spaceships for hundreds or thousands of dollars, and we will require at least 500 million to get basic release out of the door, and don't expect SQ42 in that time either"... well, i think we can all understand how badly the project would have failed to get the required funding.
The project depends on hype, faith, and misdirection.
I do understand the fascination with space legs. For me it could have waited in ED though, plenty of other things i would have wanted first. But FD did what they wanted, so que sera sera. SC is built from the ground up with space legs in mind, so again, their decision.
Looking forward to compare the concept art of the fire extinguisher with the concept art for the tech of the fire extinguisher. Need to be patient though.
Those times are just bizarre... at least, until you remember all artwork has to be approved by CR of "make that pixel green not blue" fame. Then you understand why they assign so long to art tasks.
Counter counterpoint - How many of them are whales?
How many people consciously became Concierge plus (Admiral is it?) How many just spent bits here and there and over a period of time it all added up? How many bought the 35K package and how many own more ships and spent more money than they ever imagined just drip-feeding and buying the latest ship because it was never bank-breaking at the time? Its a hobby and most hobbies we are willing to spend and spend on over time because we enjoy the hobby.
ED & SC have probably an older audience, even a generational one than most games. The Twitch generation want fast pay off instant gratification or they move on to the next game. And they talk to each other more. Word of mouth works both ways.
How many of them will still be there in 6 months let alone 5 years subscribing to an Alpha to keep that revenue up? How many will make a small one-off purchase and just flush it down the toilet / write it off / forget about it? What will keep them coming back?
SC is losing its core audience, the ones who will pay month after month for an email and a story and a promise of things to come.
PT Barnum ticket sale price was similar at the end of the circus lifetime as at the beginning and he just moved from town to town. SC ship prices are going up and up to account for less actual people buying and theres nowhere left to go. Sunk cost fallacy isnt as powerful with the Millenials not through conscious thought just that theres so much else on offer and its easy to get and actual money means less.
Brand loyalty doesnt mean as much, nor does the 'personal service' individual shops that our grandparents had, we all go to generic supermarkets now, they shop online from faceless stores, 3 or 4 generations and its all changed from what lasted hundreds of years. We watched 3 hour movies or episodic TV shows that lasted for months or years. They watch 20 second Tik-Tok and swipe left (I have no idea how TT works
) If it is episodic as soon as the first one is out they binge watch the entire series online in one sitting and 'next'.If SC start accepting BC....well thats a different story....unless that bubble bursts. It should but belief and confidence just keep it going atm. Another one thats fascinating and defies reality. But all bubbles burst eventually, thats the nature of bubbles. Get in make money and get out. Every crash has been un-foreseeable the day before to 99% of people. Thats why people get hurt.
Generalising and stereotyping yes and always exceptions to the rule, but is based on observable and studied behaviour patterns and its not our future anymore, its theirs, and we will sit around and talk about how good it was in the old days when we were young....which obviously it was but thats the point, its in the past.
And thank the lord @MTBFritz is back I can stop these walls of text now....and breathe
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
I wasnt able to find the actual time stamp and statement quoted in this new Quaver´s post, any ideas?
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/mq167s/now_that_the_new_ocs_and_physics_techs_are_in/
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/mq167s/now_that_the_new_ocs_and_physics_techs_are_in/
The more ED is adding stuff, the more obvious it becomes how slow CIG actually is.
Watch some Twitch streams
Especially with the defensive streamers like Morphologis. New people see the game every day. They know nothing of it and it looks cool to them.