Every Possible Idea for a Major Update I Could Think Of

[Bearcat9948]

Title. This list of suggestions is a long time in the making and I've put a lot of thought into it. Now that deep diving and billboards are done with (though diving still needs to be implemented for some animals and custom sounds need to be added) I have put much thought into what themes future updates should have. This is vastly different from my small changes thread because this is big picture stuff what will require a lot more work. Please let me know your thoughts and what you like and don't like. Hopefully the CMs see this and pass it along. We may end up getting one or two of these if they were already planned, otherwise this is probably stuff for next year. You may notice a slight overlap with my small changes list, I added just a few things from that here where I think they fit as part of a larger "theme".

Aviary Update
Overview: Adds in aviary only birds and bats, as well as aviary specific mammals (such as squirrels, sloths and kinkajous) to the game. It also moves the green and lesser-Antillean iguanas out of the exhibit system and into this one.
Features:

• Temperature and climate system copied from current exhibit system
• Has four preset themes for building shell (New World, Planet Zoo, Tropical Rainforest and African). These themes can be supplemented by adding your own building pieces.
• Also includes a "null" shell option so players can build their own shells/buildings, in whatever style they wish.
• Does not connect to path system, instead guests view animals simply by walking by them. Guests can look through all presets automatically. If the player adds a wall on one side of the aviary, guests will not be able to view the animal from that side.
• Walkthrough aviaries can be built by placing multiple aviaries nearby each other and building a path through and building around all.
• Depending on animal type added, a preset of foliage will be selected. These will always be plain looking trees, but there will be some variation depending on whichever species you use.
• Aviaries will have certain types of enrichment depending on the animal. Maximum of 3 different types, similar to current exhibit system.
• Animals will have a preset of looped animations they cycle through. This will be expanded upon based on whether or not the enrichment items have been added. There will be a randomized factor applied, so the actions are not circular. For instance, an animal in "Spot A" can move to "Spot B, Spot F or Spot G", instead of having to go from A->B->C->A
• There will be 5 preset biome types for aviaries (Tropical dry forest, Tropical rain forest, Temperate forest, Grassland or Taiga). These will provide an enrichment bonus to the animal when paired with the correct species (ie. great hornbill in Tropical rain forest). There will also be a "null" option for this. Either way, players will be able to add their own foliage with the axis tool for maximized customizability. Players will not be punished for not choosing the "proper" biome, they will just miss out on the extra enrichment bonus.
• Update will add 4 free aviary animals to the game (two birds, a fruit bat and the giant Indian squirrel). Will be paired along with a large dlc that adds 8-12 more aviary animals.

Exhibit System Update
Overview: Totally overhauls current exhibit system to provide more customizability
Features:

• Adds null option to exhibits, allowing players to build custom preset boxes. Basically Iben's mod, but as an actual feature.
• Allows exhibits to "snap" side by side. This means you can have to actually touching each other, without having a small awkward gap between them.
• Adds 3 different sized exhibits (small, medium and large). Large is the current size, medium is anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 the size of large, and small is 1/5 or less. Large exhibits are used for iguanas (assuming they aren't moved into the aviary system disclosed above)l and other large lizards ( ie: skink), larger snakes and turtles. Medium is used for frogs and toads. Small is used for all insects, arthropods and arachnids.
• Current biomes are simply "Tropical Rainforest", "Desert" and "Aquatic". Update adds "Temperate Rainforest" and "Grassland" biomes for exhibit animals.
• Update adds 6 free exhibit animals (1 snake (Grassland), 1 chameleon, 2 turtles, 1 salamander (Temperate Rainforest) and one insect of some kind).
• Doesn't need to be paired with a specific dlc, unlike the above aviary pack

Animal TLC Overhaul Update
Overview: Completely updates and improves upon older models, skins and textures of previous animals. Frontier's dev team have improved their animal making skills noticeably, and it seems some animals from the base game are in slightly different art styles due to being made by different artists. This update would focus on unifying animals under one updated style.
Features:

• Update and improve models for baby animals. Some animals (ie: cheetah, jaguar, monitor) don't look anything like what an actual infant of their species looks like in real life.
• Fixes "cartoonish" aspects of some animals, most importantly the male West African lion's mane
• Adds variation to models of some animals (ie: lion's manes and even potential to be maneless, horn and antler variation in animals such as African buffalo and reindeer)
• Adds new animations and behaviors to existing animals (ie: brachiation for apes)
• New enrichment item interactions for existing animals (ie: Aardvarks and apes can use termite mounds. Apes use a stick to dig into them. Jaguar gets access to hammock)
• Increase model size for Bactrian camel and American bison, as they are far too small compared to human size in-game
• Diving requirement reduced significantly for otter and caiman
• One big final push to add diving to relevant animals (bears, tapirs, monitor, tigers and jaguar)

Foliage/Landscaping Update
Overview: Similar to the above update, but for foliage. Adds many new options to the game as well as touching up some existing pieces.
Features:

• Improves some of the less quality foliage models (the fan palm from the Australia pack stands out as a big one here)
• Adds between 30-50 new foliage pieces to the game. Caveat: whatever dlc pack is paired with this update, the update will not have foliage for the region. The dlc will have it's own set of foliage to go along with it.
• Focuses on adding foliage options to underrepresented areas (ie NA and SA deserts and grasslands)
• High emphasis on adding new grasses, palms, medium sized bushes, skinny trees and dead or broken trees.
• At least 6 new aquatic plant piece options (could be 3 new plants total, 6 new plants total etc.)
• Adds at least 10-15 new faux rocks with updated textures and model variation to help improve creativity.
• Adds dirt, rock and sand textures from each biome map to either the already ingame mulch pieces OR creates a new set of items for this. This solves the problem of players wanting one type of dirt on another biome map, which we know is not possible due to the engine.
• Adds some terrain variations into maps so they aren't just flat wastelands. It doesn't even have to be incredibly detailed, just some small hills, maybe a lake or river. Something for people to play around. Would be somewhat random in seeding.

That's all I've got. Let me know what you think.

 

[Aramar]

There will be 5 preset biome types for aviaries (Tropical dry forest, Tropical rain forest, Temperate forest, Grassland or Taiga).

I would add desert too.

Adds 3 different sized exhibits (small, medium and large). Large is the current size, medium is anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 the size of large, and small is 1/5 or less. Large exhibits are used for iguanas (assuming they aren't moved into the aviary system disclosed above)l and other large lizards ( ie: skink), larger snakes and turtles. Medium is used for frogs and toads. Small is used for all insects, arthropods and arachnids.

I think that all existing animals in the game should still be able to be put in the standard size. Only the new small and large size should have restrictions on what species they can host. Otherwise, all the zoos we have already built would be affected. For example, if I already have a snake house and now some species must be moved into a large terrarium, I might not have enough space in the buiding to add it and therefore my house would be ruined. It's something similar to adding deep diving to existing animals: they can do it, but it is not compulsory so that the old designs are still valid.

 

[Bearcat9948]

I would add desert too.


I think that all existing animals in the game should still be able to be put in the standard size. Only the new small and large size should have restrictions on what species they can host. Otherwise, all the zoos we have already built would be affected. For example, if I already have a snake house and now some species must be moved into a large terrarium, I might not have enough space in the buiding to add it and therefore my house would be ruined. It's something similar to adding deep diving to existing animals: they can do it, but it is not compulsory so that the old designs are still valid.

I considered desert, but I think asking for 6 is a bit too much. You could honestly have any desert dwelling birds in either a tropical dry forest or grasslands biome and it wouldn't be the end of the world. Realistically, the amount of desert birds that would even be considered compared to species from the other two biomes is a lot lower.

Also, I think you misunderstood the sizing for the exhibits. The "large" size is the same as what we have now. So in your scenario, you wouldn't need to move your snakes. No species would need to be moved into a larger exhibit, its that some would need to be moved into smaller sized ones (medium or small).

 

[Aramar]

Also, I think you misunderstood the sizing for the exhibits. The "large" size is the same as what we have now. So in your scenario, you wouldn't need to move your snakes. No species would need to be moved into a larger exhibit, its that some would need to be moved into smaller sized ones (medium or small).

Oh yes, my bad. I've seen people asking for larger and smaller terrariums, so I took it for granted that your large was a larger one than the one we currently have, which would be the medium or standard size. Thanks for your clarification!

 

[Bearcat9948]

Oh yes, my bad. I've seen people asking for larger and smaller terrariums, so I took it for granted that your large was a larger one than the one we currently have, which would be the medium or standard size. Thanks for your clarification!

My thought process when making this list is that ideally, all of these updates would come to pass over the next four update cycles, in whatever order makes sense to Frontier to do. That being the case, usually the only argument I see for adding in even larger exhibit sizes than what we have now is because the current size is still too cramped for iguanas.

That would be solved with adding them as aviary animals, as it would give them more space and allow for potentially 6 or so animals rather than 2, so you can actually make larger colonies of animals if you want.

 

[NZFanatic]

That aviary system sounds complicated.

Honestly the simplest way to do it IMO is to create a new barrier system adjacent to the current one. So let's say we have a list of 'shapes', starting with a square and going up to, I don't know, an octagon. You place it down, and you can just leave it as is, or you can change it. The roof would of course be preset, but each corner, and the peak (or peaks) of the roof are moveable (for the corners, on the left-right axis, for the roof points, on the up-down axis). So you can expand the size, distort the shape, and so on. This way you can add a gate like any other habitat, and customise the interior fully using the same enrichmet items, foliage, rocks, etc. that are already available. Additionally, this means you can use these new covered habitats for already existing animals, such as the capuchin, or the clouded leopard, and then whatever birds get added, which really fits Fronter's MO a lot more smoothly, and solves the issue that people want covered habitats for all sorts of species, not just birds.

They won't give us free animals in an update. If they were going to do that, they would have done so with the exhibit animals IMO.

They might also add in "prefab" aviaries for smaller birds, but I won't make any guesses as to that.

I used to think free-flying birds would be too hard for the devs, but the biggest problem has always been navigation through a 3D space. Well, they added diving, so that's no longer an issue, or at least, most of the issue has already been solved. Some of the current enrichment (like climbing equipment, mirror mobile) and foliage, and scenery (ropes, wooden beams, etc.) would probably have programming added to make it so birds can perch on them just as they made them climbable, which will provide a point where the AI can decide to travel (along with new bird-specific enrichment).

All in all, my point is that I expect the free update to add in covered habitats, available for free and to be used by any animal you want, with the DLC adding birds which "coincidentally" can also use the covered habitats. My theory stems from two main points; Frontier doesn't like withholding new gameplay features behind paid DLC (diving, variant skins, educators, and so on), but they also have never even hinted at giving us free animals, not even exhibit animals which, as much as I love them, are more like scenery items, so there's zero reason to believe they'd do so now.

 

[Bearcat9948]

That aviary system sounds complicated.

Honestly the simplest way to do it IMO is to create a new barrier system adjacent to the current one. So let's say we have a list of 'shapes', starting with a square and going up to, I don't know, an octagon. You place it down, and you can just leave it as is, or you can change it. The roof would of course be preset, but each corner, and the peak (or peaks) of the roof are moveable (for the corners, on the left-right axis, for the roof points, on the up-down axis). So you can expand the size, distort the shape, and so on. This way you can add a gate like any other habitat, and customise the interior fully using the same enrichmet items, foliage, rocks, etc. that are already available. Additionally, this means you can use these new covered habitats for already existing animals, such as the capuchin, or the clouded leopard, and then whatever birds get added, which really fits Fronter's MO a lot more smoothly, and solves the issue that people want covered habitats for all sorts of species, not just birds.

They won't give us free animals in an update. If they were going to do that, they would have done so with the exhibit animals IMO.

They might also add in "prefab" aviaries for smaller birds, but I won't make any guesses as to that.

I used to think free-flying birds would be too hard for the devs, but the biggest problem has always been navigation through a 3D space. Well, they added diving, so that's no longer an issue, or at least, most of the issue has already been solved. Some of the current enrichment (like climbing equipment, mirror mobile) and foliage, and scenery (ropes, wooden beams, etc.) would probably have programming added to make it so birds can perch on them just as they made them climbable, which will provide a point where the AI can decide to travel (along with new bird-specific enrichment).

All in all, my point is that I expect the free update to add in covered habitats, available for free and to be used by any animal you want, with the DLC adding birds which "coincidentally" can also use the covered habitats. My theory stems from two main points; Frontier doesn't like withholding new gameplay features behind paid DLC (diving, variant skins, educators, and so on), but they also have never even hinted at giving us free animals, not even exhibit animals which, as much as I love them, are more like scenery items, so there's zero reason to believe they'd do so now.

I have to disagree with you, on a matter of programming. Having freeform aviaries that allow animals (birds especially) to fly free and interact with objects put there in customized ways would be very, very hard to implement. In my way of suggesting how to add aviaries, a player could add all the extra decor they want, but animals would have no interaction with them and would "phase" through.

I think for an aviary update, they would have to give us some sort of free animals, unless they just do what I suggest and move the two iguana species to the aviaries, and call that "fair enough" for people who choose not to buy the dlc.

 

[NZFanatic]

I have to disagree with you, on a matter of programming.

I mean, that's fine, you're welcome to disagree, but your idea seems needlessly complex and ignores the reality of what Frontier is capable of. I used to think the same way you do but I changed my tune as more information became available and more achievements were made.

Edit: It also ignores my two main points of contention - Frontier won't ever give us free animals, otherwise they already would have, and they never hide new gameplay features behind paid DLC.

 

[Bearcat9948]

I mean, that's fine, you're welcome to disagree, but your idea seems needlessly complex and ignores the reality of what Frontier is capable of. I used to think the same way you do but I changed my tune as more information became available and more achievements were made.

I really do think that your idea is more complex. Coding animals to use specific animations in specific ways is easy. So is implementing a simple .rand code to make the animals randomly choose where to go. If PK can operate in a similar fashion, I don't see why the PZ dev team couldn't easily do the same. I also happen to personally think that this is the way aviaries should be implemented in any game such as this. I would hope they'd take a similar route in JWE2.

JWE showed the basics of this system, where the Pteranodons were on a looped cycle of animations. So obviously they're at least capable of that. This merely expands upon that system and gives us more variety.

If it's an issue of customizability you're worried about, having the null option available makes the possibilities endless.

 

[NZFanatic]

If it's an issue of customizability you're worried about, having the null option available makes the possibilities endless.

Dude, I'm not worried about anything, I just don't think you're giving them enough credit. Like I said, I used to think exactly the same way you do, but things have changed. Nobody thought diving was possible, either.

 

[Bearcat9948]

Dude, I'm not worried about anything, I just don't think you're giving them enough credit. Like I said, I used to think exactly the same way you do, but things have changed. Nobody thought diving was possible, either.

I always knew diving was possible, and fully expected it to be implemented at some point. Diving and implementing fully fledged flying animals are two separate matters. Similar on a base level? Sure. But not the same.

It's not that what you're suggesting is impossible, because it isn't. But it's roughly 10x the workload of how I suggested to do it, and when it comes to coding and programming, the number one rule is "work smart, not hard", which is why open-sourced coding is God's gift to us coders. I don't see a reason to implement your idea when ultimately it would achieve something nearly identical to my idea, but would be much harder to do, and would almost assuredly come with far more bugs.

I wouldn't be unhappy with your method, I'm not even saying I would prefer mine. At this point I'm just saying what I think is more realistic.

 

[NZFanatic]

At this point I'm just saying what I think is more realistic.

But it kind of isn't, because it relies on Frontier completely changing how they implement gameplay features, which is my point.

Pretty much everything I suggested is already in-game anyway. You can already manipulate objects to the nth degree using the XYZ axis, and habitat barriers can already be distorted in a variety of ways almost to the same degree. Animals already interact with objects in their environments, including climbing, which is already a huge achievement, and animals already move through a 3D space with diving with clear delineations on where this action is and isn't possible (water surface, water bed, walls, etc.). AI is already programmed to take animals in a variety of different directions while also considering group and individual behaviour, and in either of our ideas flying animations would still need to be created anyway.

Most of the base level work is already done. I think you'll be surprised by what they eventually put into the game.

 

[Bearcat9948]

But it kind of isn't, because it relies on Frontier completely changing how they implement gameplay features, which is my point.

Pretty much everything I suggested is already in-game anyway. You can already manipulate objects to the nth degree using the XYZ axis, and habitat barriers can already be distorted in a variety of ways almost to the same degree. Animals already interact with objects in their environments, including climbing, which is already a huge achievement, and animals already move through a 3D space with diving with clear delineations on where this action is and isn't possible (water surface, water bed, walls, etc.). AI is already programmed to take animals in a variety of different directions while also considering group and individual behaviour, and in either of our ideas flying animations would still need to be created anyway.

Most of the base level work is already done. I think you'll be surprised by what they eventually put into the game.

I just think of how many bugs and glitches there already are with climbing, which has been in the game since launch, and deep diving with animals swimming through barriers and escaping. Do they really want to increase that problem exponentially by making freeform aviaries a thing? And with animals the size of birds, I mean unless we're only getting larger avians like eagle owls, eagles, macaws and large hornbills, those smaller birds like small parrots, a mynah or a finch would be able to escape very easily if there's even the smallest issue in the seams.

I personally think my system is ultimately less work, less stress and less mess, and would ultimately leave most people happy. If they can figure out a way to implement something more in line with what you're suggesting, then that is great. I'll buy an aviary pack no matter what the system is.

 

[SanRazo618]

Love most ideas but I REALLY want aviaries to be completely custom and the birds more akin to our habitat animals with free flying

 

[Iben]

@NZFanatic is right here, the notion that it's 10 times the workload of deepdiving is really not correct. Essentially the system as he proposed would mean that the habitat itself would become a volumetric entity just as the water is in Planet Zoo, and all the same rules that apply to deepdiving would then also apply to flying. It would honestly be a very clever approach, and that's pretty much how I would tackle it given the challenge.

Although your way is indeed less work @Bearcat9948, Frontier has in the past shown that they go above and beyond to get things as customizable as possible. Let's not forget we have a fully customizable climbing system where they could have gone with fixed climbing enrichment, fully customizable coverage structures vs prebuild shelters, fully customizable habitat barriers vs only having preset barriers and I could go on and on. I agree with NZ here, you're not giving Frontier enough credit for all the work they already put into Planet Zoos habitat creation. Looking at all the stuff they've done so far to make habitats as customizable as possible (and it's a lot), going for prefixed animations for highly active animals would be a departure from what they do now. (They stated clearly that exhibit animals are what they are because they are animals that don't move much)

Besides, Frontier is the kind of company that wants to get things right instead of doing things fast. It was mentioned that the King Penguin was supposed to be part of the base game, but they opted not to include it because they couldn't get the underwater mechanics right, and they preferred to wait until they got that feature working rather than putting out an animal that would miss such a key feature. (Yes, I'm aware that you could argue that the crocodiles/polar bears should have had diving too, but in the end, penguins would have missed it a lot more compared to those animals).

What I'm saying with that is that your idea is indeed a whole of a lot less work and birds are heavily requested everywhere; so if they wanted to go with that route, from a marketing perspective it would already have been in by now. Your method is even simpler than underwater mechanics, so if they were going to put birds in boxes with looped animations, then they would have already done it by now. Most likely Frontier is trying to figure it out, which is why we haven't had birds nor any form of covering our habitats yet. Doesn't mean that it might not end up being your way, but the absence of your way of doing it and the absence of any form of covering habitats with mesh or netting (which would be beneficial for a big amount of animals in Planet Zoo) seems to suggest that they're at least trying to figure it out in a way that is much more customizable than what you are proposing here.

"Work smart, not hard" is indeed a rule in our community, but programmers that only avoid challenges and never go the extra mile aren't the ones that are going to make it in the end Even with open source stuff existing, you end up doing things yourself because you need something that is almost what the open source is or because you want to have the challenge of making it your own. Frontier surely isn't the kind of company that avoids all risks and challenges, the aforementioned features in habitat customization clearly shows that, so I think we should give them credit where credit is due and not just assume that they're going to go for the easiest option here. They surely haven't in the past.