Interiors Vs FDEV's Escape Argument

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

But you might be walking/floating around your ship while in supercruise already, when you get interdicted, then you'll get slammed with a few tons of force against whatever surface when the ship tumbles and stops back again in normal space.

Then, if you are out and floating, the ship isn't going to change direction if you are the one piloting the ship. But you might be multicrewing.

SC doesn't even have to think about these "gameplay stoppers", since they went the sensible Sci-Fi way of having pretend gravity. They fact they aren't pulling working physics grid for different frames of references is down to an entirely different can of coding worms.



Right, but then your feet will stay conveniently locked to the ground while the rest of your body gets dislodged from your ankles under a lateral-negative 18 g boost-turn.
It requires a lot of suspension of disbelief, as you say.

Provide one game example where rag doll physics end up being hated by the players. Worst case scenario, we get really funny yt vids. (And probably unhealthy amounts of salt)

 

[AkenBosch]

This has nothing to do with rag doll physics though. Not being in control while insta-dying to blunt force trauma, or not dying because "space game" while still utterly not being in control and getting slammed everywhere is sure to go down well with every player, awesome emergent gameplay!

 

[Old Duck]

Arthur said one of the reasons you wouldn't want Interiors is becuase if you were in a hurry retreating from a base you would not want to have to make your way to the bridge through a large ship becuase of the urgent need to 'get out of there'

One of the dumbest excuses I've ever heard in my entire life.

 

[Capslock]

I don't see the difficulty of the taking off under fire situation either.

Firstly, I maintain that even moving the 'blue circles' to an airlock area at the top of the steps that fades you into just inside the cockpit would improve the immersion, fit the narrative, avoid the need for modelling any more ship interiors and add almost no more 'vulnerable time' than currently exists. The gap between the pilot's chair and the Armstrong Moment 'Circles of Laziness' is a poorly considered designed in gap. It actually has next to nothing to do with Ship Interiors as it's normally described. It's just bad design and lazy programming and the gap should be plugged, it's a simple as that. After all, why run to the settlement - you could just teleport there. Why take the lift to the concourse, you could just teleport there. Why bother with the Witchspace animation, you could just teleport between stars. Why fly to a planet, you could just teleport there.

I repeat, the blue circles are a designed in gap in the narrative that is simply because of laziness. That gap could be, and absolutely should be, located where it makes narrative sense to locate it. Not hovering above the dust next to the access stairs that you are actually prevented from accessing. It a sign saying 'this way' next to a sign saying 'no, this way not that way'. And it's designed like that! It's not good enough.

On the escaping under fire situation I think you just have to consider how it would work if you were actually there.

I don't think you should be able to take off unless you're strapped into your chair. That throws up all sorts of physics issues, isn't necessary and in most cases makes no sense no matter how much you can shout 'Get us out of here Chewie!'. So you have to get from the stair to the chair, perhaps while under fire. In terms of gameplay this is no different really than getting from the base to the ship.

In the 'real' world, you get into the ship and close the door behind you. No combat within the ship required. You either have you ship's automatic defenses doing their best to buy you time by returning fire, or you just have to hope that your noble steed can absorb the hits for long enough to give you the time to get back to chair. If this is an overlong journey past the onboard pool and giftshop, well, you brought the wrong ship and you're going to die.

Assume though that you're legging it down corridors. Dramatic music is playing, sirens are sounding, red lights flashing, your ship's computer informing you in its anodine voice that unless you get back to the chair in ten seconds you're going to explode in a painful and messy way that will seriously affect your resell value. Sparks and jets of gas are shooting out of random panels of your beloved ship with no logical explanation, as you try to get desperately back to the cockpit in time, cursing yourself that you parked so close to the base, and why oh why did you bring the Winnebago, when the quad bike would have you got you away quicker. Your ship won't take off without you in the chair, as the forces could be fatal and the inbuilt safety systems won't permit it. Fortunately, on this occasion, you'll get away on time, but having taken a bunch of damage. Next time, you'll park behind the hill and sneak in on foot!

I don't see the gameplay downside, the programming downside, or why it couldn't be done step by step. At the risk of sounding like a broken record though, get the blue circles up out of the dust most importantly, the rest may or may not come later. If it comes it could be an awesome extension of the base attack gameplay loop without needing to become Fire Extinguisher Simulator. So many ways it could be done.

 

[Dartay]

That is the issue with your simplified presentation of a complex problem. Why aren't you the CEO of google, you just have to get done to get the job.

Just to put you in perspective. Look at all the addons FDev have developed for ED, especially take a look at how they are interlinked with each other. Do you really expect FDev to rework most of the core mechanics of ED, when they are unable to deliver even coop missions at launch of their self-proclaimed 'MMO'?

No, that was me reiterating the actual contents of the problem you describe without all the unnecessary words an unrelated examples about Google and screenplays or w/e.

Do I expect Frontier to perform videogame development? Yes. They're a videogame development company.

 

[B1rdy]

No, that was me reiterating the actual contents of the problem you describe without all the unnecessary words an unrelated examples about Google and screenplays or w/e.

Do I expect Frontier to perform videogame development? Yes. They're a videogame development company.

I provided an example of a specific situation in ED, which you conveniently chose to ignore.

Edit: As to you second remark: From a purely real-world perspective, you are of course correct. But you would want to consider FDevs track record, especially the release of MC.

 

[Dartay]

I provided an example of a specific situation in ED, which you conveniently chose to ignore.

You mean this?

Look at all the addons FDev have developed for ED, especially take a look at how they are interlinked with each other. Do you really expect FDev to rework most of the core mechanics of ED, when they are unable to deliver even coop missions at launch of their self-proclaimed 'MMO'?

I looked at addons and how they are interlinked with each other. This still does not explain or substantiate your assertion that gameplay inside space ships is impossible or disproportionately difficult to develop.

The second part seems to concern Frontier's general ability to develop videogames. Or rather: Elite. And that their poor implementation of coop missions should mean that ship interiors would be impossible or disproportionately difficult to develop. And that therefore, interiors should not be developed. By that logic, no features for Elite should ever be developed.

This is why I called your examples unrelated: they do not logically support your assertion.

 

[Fizzatron]

sorry if this has already been sugested but....

Arthur said one of the reasons you wouldn't want Interiors is becuase if you were in a hurry retreating from a base you would not want to have to make your way to the bridge through a large ship becuase of the urgent need to 'get out of there'

I though that was a weak argument becuase you should pick your battles, if you think a mission leads to danger and you pick a Cutter then you made that choice.

That aside though

When you land on any planet you can dismiss and recall your ship, that auto pilot feature already exists so why (if you did picked a large ship) could you not have had an option in planning your mission to 'Launch Upon Boarding' .... as soon as you board, the ship auto launches to orbit while you make your way to the bridge

"Walking in ships gets boring" (paraphrased)

It's a poor argument, it isn't a problem in Empyrion, or I'm sure, for Star Citizen players.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

This has nothing to do with rag doll physics though. Not being in control while insta-dying to blunt force trauma, or not dying because "space game" while still utterly not being in control and getting slammed everywhere is sure to go down well with every player, awesome emergent gameplay!

I feel like this must be the only game you've ever played to assume that's how it would work . It's like some people just don't want things and will cling to the stupidest arguments. Also, in supercruise you technically aren't even moving. Physics demand moving at those speeds would essentially liquefy and disintegrate us, so I imagine you've been campaigning vehemently against the use of supercruise. Gimme some other dumb reason to tear down. You're as bad as Arthur and his, 'it would get boring' why not just admit there's no solid argument and be done with it?

 

[AkenBosch]

I feel like this must be the only game you've ever played to assume that's how it would work . It's like some people just don't want things and will cling to the stupidest arguments. Also, in supercruise you technically aren't even moving. Physics demand moving at those speeds would essentially liquefy and disintegrate us, so I imagine you've been campaigning vehemently against the use of supercruise. Gimme some other dumb reason to tear down.

The "lore trick" with the FSD (actually coherent with current theoretical principles of warp drives) is that the ship isn't going nowhere, it just sits inside a bubble of normal space while space around it gets squished in front and re-inflated on the back, so they could make with waving away the need for dampeners (there's so much waving to be done to come out with an actually enjoyable game anyway).

Learning to read might help you avoid poor figures in the future. Better luck next time.

Found a mic on the ground, someone must have dropped it.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

Learning to read might help you avoid poor figures in the future. Better luck next time.

Found a mic on the ground, someone must have dropped it.

I tried to read it but it fell apart after you dismantled your own argument. Try harder for a good argument or go argue with toddlers. You get blocked now as you don't meet my forum pvp level reqs.

 

[AkenBosch]

Lol

 

[Alien]

I feel like this must be the only game you've ever played to assume that's how it would work . It's like some people just don't want things and will cling to the stupidest arguments. Also, in supercruise you technically aren't even moving. Physics demand moving at those speeds would essentially liquefy and disintegrate us, so I imagine you've been campaigning vehemently against the use of supercruise. Gimme some other dumb reason to tear down. You're as bad as Arthur and his, 'it would get boring' why not just admit there's no solid argument and be done with it?


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Before you insult AkenBosh, may I suggest you spend some time over on Egosoft's forums and read his posts there. If you'll take my word for it I can save you the trouble, AkenBosh is very knowledgeable about space games. He and I were posting on there before Elite Dangerous was ever a thing.

 

[AkenBosch]

Long before ED was ever a thing

Hi Alien! And we aren't even the only ones around here...space games community really is a small niche after all.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

Before you insult AkenBosh, may I suggest you spend some time over on Egosoft's forums and read his posts there. If you'll take my word for it I can save you the trouble, AkenBosh is very knowledgeable about space games. He and I were posting on there before Elite Dangerous was ever a thing.

No. I don't play their games and am not talking about their games. Someone wants to argue something valid feel free but I won't argue with the not-blind refusing to open their eyes. That's not my problem and I don't care if they ever see. Their problem to deal with on their own

For those with open eyes willing to see

I blocked them because I don't care to continue to discus them or discus with them or I wouldn't have ignored them in the first places

 

[Flyinspaghetti]

One of the dumbest excuses I've ever heard in my entire life.

After popping over to NMS to see how hard Hello Games are pushing their development to bring exciting "free" updates, it sort of highlights how shockingly bad FDev currently are considering the fact that making a few small rooms on your ship to walk around in seems too high a bar for them to implement.

 

[Mogen Teras]

After popping over to NMS to see how hard Hello Games are pushing their development to bring exciting "free" updates, it sort of highlights how shockingly bad FDev currently are considering the fact that making a few small rooms on your ship to walk around in seems too high a bar for them to implement.

Exactly. To quite the other fellow: "you're telling me that a new game design requires game design?"

The whole point of game development is to make things work. If Okami can make a game involving painting powers work perfectly, there's no reason FDev can't make ship interiors properly. Star Citizen did it. Space Engineers seemed to make it work. Heck, I'm currently playing an indie early access game called Starship Evo (developed by ONE MAN) where you build your ships yourself, interiors and all, and it works.

If we, the laymen of the forum, can think of plenty of good things they could integrate into ship interiors, then there's no reason that the people whose whole JOB it is is to design the game cannot make it work.

 

[Cervantes01]

I think it's pretty obvious that FD is developing ED on the cheap.

 

[Kelster87]

Exactly. To quite the other fellow: "you're telling me that a new game design requires game design?"

The whole point of game development is to make things work. If Okami can make a game involving painting powers work perfectly, there's no reason FDev can't make ship interiors properly. Star Citizen did it. Space Engineers seemed to make it work. Heck, I'm currently playing an indie early access game called Starship Evo (developed by ONE MAN) where you build your ships yourself, interiors and all, and it works.

If we, the laymen of the forum, can think of plenty of good things they could integrate into ship interiors, then there's no reason that the people whose whole JOB it is is to design the game cannot make it work.

Christ, 6 pages of crud and no one bothers to actually mention the real reason for no interiors - and FDev have even admitted to it. COBRA isn't capable of doing it. They apparently can't get the engine to deal with models inside models - or at least not beyond ship in station... Person in a ship in a station with full freedom of movement is apparently a challenge.

I also find myself wondering if @Alien or @AkenBosch has flown the Delta Glider V4..

​

 

[Ambroza]

Christ, 6 pages of crud and no one bothers to actually mention the real reason for no interiors - and FDev have even admitted to it. COBRA isn't capable of doing it. They apparently can't get the engine to deal with models inside models - or at least not beyond ship in station... Person in a ship in a station with full freedom of movement is apparently a challenge.

I also find myself wondering if @Alien or @AkenBosch has flown the Delta Glider V4..

​

When did they admit this? They were able to get people moving around within a concourse within a station working, so I'm a bit skeptical.