Actually Frontier wanted to support JWE longer, but game was so bad on coding level so they were forced to make sequel. I aggre that comparing PZ to JWE is not best example.
Something I've Noticed
- Thread starter StoppableSan
- Start date
You mean in that 4chan leak from april 2019?
They won't lol.
We can't even view what CM's are looking at now, because they figured out we could and disabled it, so we wouldn't get any clues about what types of feedback posts they are viewing, or if they might be about to make a post. That is how anti-transparency this company is.
Can we for a minute maybe realize that CM's are still human beings and watching their every move on the forums was a bit creepy to begin with? This has literally nothing to do with transparency. Just because you become a CM at a company doesn't mean that you then have to accept that you're basically going to get spied on by people who are impatient about the next DLC.
Much much less information. We basically got a trailer and some interviews and that was it. Only with EA we had Tuesday Tidbits for a while, but those only lasted a few weeks.
That's called stalking. Absolutely unacceptable. Nothing to do with transparency.
Eh, we just saw which thread they were looking at, which by the way still works for any other users so by that logic, Frontier can “stalk” us, yet that does not seem to be a problem?
Its their decision yes, but calling it a stalking is taking it a bit too far imo? Its a forum function that Frontier themself implemented after all.
Its their decision yes, but calling it a stalking is taking it a bit too far imo? Its a forum function that Frontier themself implemented after all.
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It's the "how you use" and "the purpose you make" of those functionalities.
If you constantly monitor what any of the forum member do and don't do... in my eyes that's not acceptable, despite the functionality being there.
Similarly, I can send e-mails at 2 am in the morning - I have the functionality to do it. But the institution I work for, "forbids" us to send e-mails outside working hours, as the institution considers it harassment.
Maybe stalking is not the perfect word for it (cyberstalking? cybermonitoring?). But, overall, I think it's an unacceptable behaviour.
If you constantly monitor what any of the forum member do and don't do... in my eyes that's not acceptable, despite the functionality being there.
Similarly, I can send e-mails at 2 am in the morning - I have the functionality to do it. But the institution I work for, "forbids" us to send e-mails outside working hours, as the institution considers it harassment.
Maybe stalking is not the perfect word for it (cyberstalking? cybermonitoring?). But, overall, I think it's an unacceptable behaviour.
I still think the way you put it is exaggerated a bit, but each to their own I guess. If you think that behaviour is unnaceptable then that is perfectly fine by your own morals. In my eyes, seeing that they are reading a thread which they are paid for is not a big deal, its not like anyone was constantly checking what they are doing 24/7. More like I have seen a post here and there in the big threads about how “Frontier is reading this atm, so they know about these issues” and thats it.
Then again, I dont mind them hiding this so arguing over this term is pointless I guess.
There’s a difference between “constantly monitoring” a member’s activities and being curious about what is attracting the attention of a professional staff member.
Perhaps if communication was more meaningful and substantial people wouldn’t be grasping for any straws that give a hint about what might be listened to/going on.
Perhaps if communication was more meaningful and substantial people wouldn’t be grasping for any straws that give a hint about what might be listened to/going on.
Yeah, this is all I meant by this. Thank you for the level-headed response.
And this stuff really does matter IMO. I think their games could be much bigger hits if they treated their players like partners in the endeavors. But I’m sure they’ve done their research so what do I know?
Yeah, Blue Fang didnt share many info about zt2, except with EA. With zt1 were more transparent.
My annoyance is more with the immediate need to frame it as "they're that anti transparency". I'm growing pretty tired of all this "Frontier is the worst game developer since sliced bread" doom and gloom, as much as I'm growing tired of people that go "oh well support will end soon" after each DLC gets released.
It doesn't take much empathy to understand that the CM's weren't comfortable with a group of people watching them almost constantly ( because if a few people do it once or twice a day you easily get to a point where they're watched almost constantly). It's not a big scheme because "Frontier doesn't want us to know anything".
At what point are we beating a dead horse though? Like we've had these kind of topics, posts, comments since the beginning. They've been addressed a couple of times, from Chante addressing why they don't share roadmaps to the fact that they go over the forum posts and feedback at the start of the day.
Does anyone at this point think things are going to change if we keep repeating it? Like, I'm all for voicing your opinion. I'm all for pointing out flaws in a constructive fashion. But at one point you just have to accept that things are the way they are and that they're not going to change. And sure, you can bring it up once in a while, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But it feels as if this forum is starting to become nothing more than either complaining about what's in a revealed/released DLC back to complaining about when we'll hear more about the next DLC and then back again to complaining about the new DLC.
We've got one of the best zoo games we've ever had on our hands. It can do things we never were able to do before. I too want to know what's next, but the game already has so much to offer and the constant need to focus on "what's next" and "why haven't they communicated about what's next" is just wasted energy. Nobody's dying from waiting a few weeks on news. The game seriously doesn't become less enjoyable from waiting a bit. Play the game. Have fun. Go outside and touch some grass.
Putting things in perspective, we mostly only have to wait for like three to four months max. For ZT2 we had to wait almost a year to hear some news. 3 months really just isn't that bad.
(And yes, I'm talking from a more personal perspective as I recognize all of this all to well from our time at JFD, and constantly being asked what's next isn't that fun)
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isn’t there important information in this fact though? And if so, might it not behoove Frontier to change their policies? Blizzard has found out the hard way what happens when you ignore consistent negative feedback. I loved PZ but my frustration with policies will make me think long and hard before investing time and money in a Frontier game again. I’m one person. Maybe I’m an extreme outlier. But if not, Frontier could have a problem. Like the original poster, I say this with no malice towards the hard working team or their games but a strong conviction that the current policies — whatever the reasons — are counterproductive and damage people’s enjoyment of the game.
We're nearing PZ's second birthday and so far support has not ended abruptly nor has there been a sudden big change in their communication strategy towards their DLCs ( there has been changes in the interaction with the community through the discussion threads).
From the very few parameters that we have, the simplest conclusion we make from this is that it doesn't seem to have affected the sales that much at all.
I saw incredibly similar arguments with WoW for years. “Sales are great. Biggest game of all time. A handful of negative bashers mean nothing.” Until the roof caved in.We're nearing PZ's second birthday and so far support has not ended abruptly nor has there been a sudden big change in their communication strategy towards their DLCs ( there has been changes in the interaction with the community through the discussion threads).
From the very few parameters that we have, the simplest conclusion we make from this is that it doesn't seem to have affected the sales that much at all.
I'm not familiar with this. Could you elaborate?
This describes the player base situation pretty well.
Earlier this year, several prominent streams either quit playing WoW or moved to FFXIV. That corresponded with the California lawsuit. Between the two, it’s had a strongly negative impact on the player base.
I will not give you this point. It's pretty well established they do not like to communicate their future plans, in almost any way. To me, that is anti-transparency. I don't think they are the worst developer ever, not by a long shot, but if you're referring to the comment I made that was along the lines of "Sometimes I wish Frontier was not the company we had to deal with", then I stand by that. The communication issue has bugged me for years, and I'm not inclined to just shut up and take my licks. It won't ever change unless it's continuously brought up in order to inspire said change.
As far as the second point goes, that's fine. The "stalking" accusation was way out of line and inappropriate. No one is contacting them during, or outside of work, or harassing them on private social media or other private residencies or accounts. Viewing a CM's profile to see if they're reviewing a feedback page vs one of those earlier examples is vastly different, and using such words haphazardly diminishes their effect. I would encourage everyone to think about that in the future.
The only reason people wanted to see what kinds of topics the CM's might be looking at, as @markun pointed out, is because we have been slowly stripped of any way of possibly gleaming even a scrap of info as to when or what might be coming to PZ in the future. Steamdb no longer allows us to see if unkownapps have been added, we have no idea what feedback issues (if any) might possibly be being reviewed at any given time, we have no roadmaps for dlcs or update features etc.
I would be willing to give another company the benefit of doubt, but Frontier has a track record for abandoning development without saying a word, leaving their player base totally in the dark (PC, JWE1). While I don't believe that support is ending anytime in the next 6-8 months, I think it's entirely fair to point out the company's short comings.
One thing I have consistently noticed is that whenever someone critiques how Frontier does business, it's interpreted by some as personally attacking the employees, specifically the CMs. While you have the odd troll that comes along (as you do in literally any place on the internet) that might actually do this, most of the time we are only talking about the companies strategy and implementation of said strategy. I have always made it very clear that whenever I critique Frontier, it is never about the CMs nor any other employee in any way.
My issue is not, and has never been, with the way in which the employees conduct themselves or do their job. My issue has always been with the way in which they are allowed to do their job.
I understand that some people may think Frontier's level of communication is adequate, or that it's not worth trying to change. But I disagree, and so long as I'm allowed to share that opinion on this forum, I will. Either until such critique is banned, or the level of communication is improved.