Allow the VR '2D screen' to be disabled?

Yes there is. I had a very urgent need to curse even more, but supressed it.

Concerning the recent FDev comment: I am not interested in any bugfixes concerning the pancake-non-solution. This comment seems to confirm that we will be stuck with the flat view forever, and that VR development in ED is indeed at the end of the line, or in simpler terms: ED VR is DEAD.
No, no there really isn’t. Breaking Wheaton’s Law just a little bit is still breaking Wheaton’s Law.

Perhaps read:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/statement-on-harassment.585175/
…and also remind yourself that evading the forum swear filter is definitely frowned upon by the Mods👍

Hope your interest was piqued by the bug fix for VR System Map. I’m also interested to see if the FSS missing orbit lines bug makes it into Update 8 as listed in the last Top 20 Issue Tracker list.
 
No, no there really isn’t. Breaking Wheaton’s Law just a little bit is still breaking Wheaton’s Law.

Perhaps read:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/statement-on-harassment.585175/
…and also remind yourself that evading the forum swear filter is definitely frowned upon by the Mods👍

Hope your interest was piqued by the bug fix for VR System Map. I’m also interested to see if the FSS missing orbit lines bug makes it into Update 8 as listed in the last Top 20 Issue Tracker list.
I am not harassing anyone. I am a judical software expert, so please be careful what you insinuate.

FDev broke Wheaton's Law first. Even worse: what FDev did with Odyssey might well amount to fraud in Austrian consumer law, where I'm from. I'm not going to court for EUR 40, but if the same would have happened with EUR 4000 we would have this conversation in front of an Austrian judge now.

Please go ahead and get me banned, I don't care. Your problem will not go away because of this.

And spare me the advertisement of these VR-pseudo-efforts, you are insulting my intelligence. You know very well that OUR MAIN ISSUE HERE IS THE ..................(*) PANCAKE IN FRONT OF OUR FACES WHEN USING YOUR PSEUDO-SPACE-LEGS-WHICH-ARE-ACTUALLY-JUST-GROUND -LEGS!!!

(*) mentally insert a strong curse here if you can stomach it.
 
I am not harassing anyone. I am a judical software expert, so please be careful what you insinuate.

FDev broke Wheaton's Law first. Even worse: what FDev did with Odyssey might well amount to fraud in Austrian consumer law, where I'm from. I'm not going to court for EUR 40, but if the same would have happened with EUR 4000 we would have this conversation in front of an Austrian judge now.

Please go ahead and get me banned, I don't care. Your problem will not go away because of this.

And spare me the advertisement of these VR-pseudo-efforts, you are insulting my intelligence. You know very well that OUR MAIN ISSUE HERE IS THE ..................(*) PANCAKE IN FRONT OF OUR FACES WHEN USING YOUR PSEUDO-SPACE-LEGS-WHICH-ARE-ACTUALLY-JUST-GROUND -LEGS!!!

(*) mentally insert a strong curse here if you can stomach it.
Breaking Wheaton’s Law because you think someone else broke it first is still breaking Wheaton’s Law.

That you thought FDev were breaking Wheaton’s Law for releasing a patch that didn’t contain any VR fixes (it did) or were maintaining radio silence about VR (last mentioned Tuesday) is an interesting concept, to be sure.

I have no interest in getting anyone banned or censored - especially a fellow VR player. My interest is in getting VREDO bugs reported, confirmed, voted for, and fixed. Swearing doesn’t bother me at all, but you did sign up to the forum and agreed to abide by its rules - if you need to refresh your memory regarding using spicy language, click “Forum Rules” at the bottom of the page and browse to Section 9 👍

I am a big supporter of this thread’s suggestion - and I think the sooner we get Odyssey’s bugs sorted and the game ported to console, the sooner FDev may look at ideas like this.
 
Your problem will not go away because of this.

Sweary attacks also won’t resolve the VR issue either mate ;)

I’m glad there’s so much passion for ED to be a complete VR title. One of the aims of this thread is to communicate that to the devs.

Other key aims though are: To pass on constructive suggestions to them, and to elicit more communication from them. Just letting rip, as you are, lessens the chances of those things happening.

The thread recently became to most upvoted suggestion on record, and once the dust from update 7 has settled, I’m going to be reaching out to the CMs for more dialogue on interim compromises like this. It is possible we can find an approach that would suit both parties. I’d prefer the thread to be leaning towards constructive ideas in that direction ;)
 
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The thread recently became to most upvoted suggestion on record
That is truly excellent news! Nice one 😁

Having had a fair mess around with the camera suite (and that wonderful time when the first-person glitch was possible) I think it could be a reasonable addition to the OP - a vanity cam preset view out of the CMDRs eyes and the ability to interact with in-game stuff when using the suite.
 
That is truly excellent news! Nice one 😁

Having had a fair mess around with the camera suite (and that wonderful time when the first-person glitch was possible) I think it could be a reasonable addition to the OP - a vanity cam preset view out of the CMDRs eyes and the ability to interact with in-game stuff when using the suite.

Yep that's exactly the sort of thing it'd be good to discuss with the CMs. I suspect they might be consider a positional preset, but be more resistant to turning the vanity cam into an interactive game mode. (Given the general resistance to 3rd person gameplay / gaming impacts there. IE it makes 3rd person the superior view for combat, given the extra peripheral awareness / ability to 'see around corners' etc).

I still wonder whether the request for vanity cam VR in the OP is why we have it in the first place, and whether they were trying to accomodate use more with those changes. But we may never know ;)


CALL FOR IDEAS:

If anyone has any other ideas for adapting EDO-as-stands for VR Legs use, please do chuck them in below :)

IE things like:

  • Changes to vanity cam VR
  • Ways that FDev could reveal the native VR to veteran players
  • 3rd party tools that could complement the above etc
 
Breaking Wheaton’s Law because you think someone else broke it first is still breaking Wheaton’s Law.
Agree, but I don't see how I'm breaking Wheaton's Law merely by being angry about FDev breaking it and expressing my feelings in written form. Also, just be putting the D word in other terms ("Wheaton's Law"), aren't you still blatantly insulting me, and isn't that worse than me just cursing into a large room to whoever feels that the shoe fits?
That you thought FDev were breaking Wheaton’s Law for releasing a patch that didn’t contain any VR fixes (it did) or were maintaining radio silence about VR (last mentioned Tuesday) is an interesting concept, to be sure.
FDev announced "Space" Legs and there was no single hint at VR (and Space) being out of the picture during the time when I pre-purchased EDO. Later they said "no full VR support at launch", again misleading everyone into thinking it would be coming right after. And then they made 7 Updates with countless bugfixes, even including some for the VR parts of the game, which seem to still be supported (for now), surrounded by a HUGE amount of communication about everything except VR. Come on, do you still not get why I am super angry???

Please try not to mis-represent my statements.

My interest is in getting VREDO bugs reported, confirmed, voted for, and fixed.
Mine isn't. Also, there is no VREDO. There is only Legacy VR and Pancake EDO. And another thing: this thread is about something else, isn't it?

I am a big supporter of this thread’s suggestion - and I think the sooner we get Odyssey’s bugs sorted and the game ported to console, the sooner FDev may look at ideas like this.
I don't care about console. When you say "may look at", on what do you base this hope? Is it because you think that this is the order in some secret backlog, or that this is so the revenue stream is available to support the smaller VR customer segment? Or what else is it that makes you so much more optimistic than many others here?

In the first case, what would then be the reason to not say so publicly? Like: "Dear VR customers, we are very sorry that we left you out of EDO without even warning you, and didn't communicate to you properly for half a year. We are now ready to announce that a slightly better VR hack is indeed in our backlog / on our idea board / whereever and is going to be defined / worked on / considered / right after the console release."

One should think ED should be desperate to not lose their VR segment, so if this first theory was true, what could prevent a definitive statement?

In the second case, why would they then not focus on everything else except for VR right after the console release, given that they seem to believe that VR is no high value business case? And again, why not put out a definitive statement then?

Are you a FDev employee trying to jolly us along, or are you just an extremly optimistic person?

I, as a former VR-only-player, am generally a very optimistic person, but I usually have something to base my optimism on. Concerning actual space legs (EVA, Ship interiors and other stuff) I don't have much hope left. But being able to enjoy at least the Ground-Legs I already paid for in VR would probably make me re-install the game.
 
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Agree, but I don't see how I'm breaking Wheaton's Law merely by being angry about FDev breaking it and expressing my feelings in written form. Also, just be putting the D word in other terms ("Wheaton's Law"), aren't you still blatantly insulting me, and isn't that worse than me just cursing into a large room to whoever feels that the shoe fits?

FDev announced "Space" Legs and there was no single hint at VR (and Space) being out of the picture during the time when I pre-purchased EDO. Later they said "no full VR support at launch", again misleading everyone into thinking it would be coming right after. And then they made 7 Updates with countless bugfixes, even including some for the VR parts of the game, which seem to still be supported (for now), surrounded by a HUGE amount of communication about everything except VR. Come on, do you still not get why I am super angry???

Please try not to mis-represent my statements.


Mine isn't. Also, there is no VREDO. There is only Legacy VR and Pancake EDO. And another thing: this thread is about something else, isn't it?


I don't care about console. When you say "may look at", on what do you base this hope? Is it because you think that this is the order in some secret backlog, or that this is so the revenue stream is available to support the smaller VR customer segment? Or what else is it that makes you so much more optimistic than many others here?

In the first case, what would then be the reason to not say so publicly? Like: "Dear VR customers, we are very sorry that we left you out of EDO without even warning you, and didn't communicate to you properly for half a year. We are now ready to announce that a slightly better VR hack is indeed in our backlog / on our idea board / whereever and is going to be defined / worked on / considered / right after the console release."

One should think ED should be desperate to not lose their VR segment, so if this first theory was true, what could prevent a definitive statement?

In the second case, why would they then not focus on everything else except for VR right after the console release, given that they seem to believe that VR is no high value business case? And again, why not put out a definitive statement then?

Are you a FDev employee trying to jolly us along, or are you just an extremly optimistic person?

I, as a former VR-only-player, am generally a very optimistic person, but I usually have something to base my optimism on. Concerning actual space legs (EVA, Ship interiors and other stuff) I don't have much hope left. But being able to enjoy at least the Ground-Legs I already paid for in VR would probably make me re-install the game.
If you feel your post #554 was not insulting to FDev, or that my responses are insulting to you, then I think we’re done here.

I’ve no wish to increase whatever anger you may feel to the makers of this entertainment product, and I have no desire to enter into quote ladders with you.

If you ever re-install the game, please take the time to check any VR bugs you may encounter (if any are still extant at that stage; I’m sure there will be 😅) and add to Issue Tracker - as can be seen in the Updates, VR issues are still being periodically addressed - even long-standing ones like the System Map scroll speed.

I, as a current VR-only-player and not-FDev-employee, shall continue to enjoy VR in EDO (bugs-and-all) and hope that the OP gets looked at in the future. Full VR on foot in EDO’s vanity camera suite is really quite spectacular.
 
I guess there's a glimmer of hope that using existing features, e.g. the vanity camera, and modifying the code so that we get something approaching usability stereoscopically in VR, would be a step in the right direction.

But it's hardly a done deal: approach the CMs, who approach whomever decided VR wasn't worth the effort (they must wear an eye patch), and convince them to reverse what they've already decided and devote development resources to it, rather than the other titles FD are working on... er, piece of cake?
 
I guess there's a glimmer of hope that using existing features, e.g. the vanity camera, and modifying the code so that we get something approaching usability stereoscopically in VR, would be a step in the right direction.

But it's hardly a done deal: approach the CMs, who approach whomever decided VR wasn't worth the effort (they must wear an eye patch), and convince them to reverse what they've already decided and devote development resources to it, rather than the other titles FD are working on... er, piece of cake?

It's not really asking them to make a major operational change though, that's the thing. It's asking them to use their existing VR dev support to open whatever backdoors are possible / nuance existing VR support / help any fan efforts in that direction.

They get to decide what's possible, and whether they want to do it. That's the way it goes. (Same with any eventual VR port). But the suggestions here are deliberately on the 'low budget' end of things, to try and make them as feasible as possible.

It's about asking FDev to go that extra mile with the resourcing they have, given this peculiar scenario we find ourselves in ;)
 
Celebration time :)

This post is now 🎆 The Top Upvoted Suggestion on Record 🎆 (of the 30,000+ suggestions made to date).

iAlZPgN.png


@Arthur Tolmie @sallymorganmoore @Bruce G @Zac Cocken

Given that official VR Legs support is a long way off, at minimum, it would be great to get some thread feedback at this point.

Can you give us your thoughts on any of these points?:

  • Could FDev provide 'back door' access to the VR view on foot, to allow veterans to cobble together a gameplay experience for now?
  • Are there any other forms of VR tide-over which could be considered for this period? Such as:
    • Adding further features to the Vanity Camera? [Perhaps a first-person default position, or menu interactions, only available if in VR?]
    • Sanctioned modding? [To reveal the native VR / adapt the existing game for VR use?]

I'm sure we all recognise that EDO has some big reputational and performance hills to climb before it could address VR in earnest. And that there are forms of interim VR support currently in place, from ship & SRV gameplay, to the VR vanity cam view on foot.

But given that the meat of EDO involves on foot gameplay, and that this remains firewalled off for the foreseeable, any movement in these areas would be greatly appreciated.

Obviously official VR support is what we’d ultimately love to see. But for now:

It would be great if EDVR veterans had a few more tools to play with, to help us in making our own fun ;)

o7
Gol
 
Give me VR support, or I'm keeping my money. Still haven't (and won't) purchase Odyssey until it's there.

I don't pay for hopes, dreams, or even promises. I pay for product.
I share your sentiment, whilst I'm an Alpha backer so entitled to Odyssey for free, I'm also not buying from their store for cosmetics either, so I hope they get the message that way.

I'm not interacting with the game at all until they improve what we have currently, perhaps by opening things up for modders and/or tinkerers to put a better implementation in place, somehow.
 
Celebration time :)

This post is now 🎆 The Top Upvoted Suggestion on Record 🎆 (of the 30,000+ suggestions made to date).

iAlZPgN.png


@Arthur Tolmie @sallymorganmoore @Bruce G @Zac Cocken

Given that official VR Legs support is a long way off, at minimum, it would be great to get some thread feedback at this point.

Can you give us your thoughts on any of these points?:

  • Could FDev provide 'back door' access to the VR view on foot, to allow veterans to cobble together a gameplay experience for now?
  • Are there any other forms of VR tide-over which could be considered for this period? Such as:
    • Adding further features to the Vanity Camera? [Perhaps a first-person default position, or menu interactions, only available if in VR?]
    • Sanctioned modding? [To reveal the native VR / adapt the existing game for VR use?]

I'm sure we all recognise that EDO has some big reputational and performance hills to climb before it could address VR in earnest. And that there are forms of interim VR support currently in place, from ship & SRV gameplay, to the VR vanity cam view on foot.

But given that the meat of EDO involves on foot gameplay, and that this remains firewalled off for the foreseeable, any movement in these areas would be greatly appreciated.

Obviously official VR support is what we’d ultimately love to see. But for now:

It would be great if EDVR veterans had a few more tools to play with, to help us in making our own fun ;)

o7
Gol
585D0B34-14C3-4072-B61A-4715DCF370A4.jpeg
 
Ok I don't know how to respond to that, so I'm going with this 😁


EDIT:

Oh but to stay slightly on topic, the Reddit post is garnering some fun discussions:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/pwezf2 Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/pwezf2/hacky_vr_legs_support_now_the_top_suggestion_on/


No bonus ideas to shove onto the table as yet though.
 
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My choice for a hacky solution would be a return of the key-combo camera suite thing that we had early in Odyssey - that way we keep the first-person body that currently gets lost when walking “into” our avatar.

I think a minimum requirement would be a point-of-aim dot onscreen for any tools/weapons (and the ability to switch between them while using the suite), and keep the full HUD on the virtual flatscreen - switching between the two with the key-combo wouldn’t be very onerous in my opinion.

I had a mess around today a few km’s outside of a planetary base, frame rates were good with no ASW though my video capture software only records at 30fps and for some reason the sound has got delayed during the upload to YouTube. Still, it offers a glimpse at what we could have:
Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t0Bkzg30UYY
 
My choice for a hacky solution would be a return of the key-combo camera suite thing that we had early in Odyssey - that way we keep the first-person body that currently gets lost when walking “into” our avatar.

Yes the 'plinking' technique for centring ourselves inside the avatar was definitely workable. (What seems to happen now is it auto-centres on top of your avatar's head, which is a bit too offset).

I am thoroughly intrigued by the change that occurred though. The current transparency when we intersect with the avatar seems like an attempt to facilitate first-person to me. It's just hard to know without open dialogue in this area. (Possibly it was just a performance change, or a way to accommodate a completely free camera etc.)

What's more notable is that there have been 'VR only' changes to the virtual cam, such as the reintroduction of the free cam function. Maybe it was just a bug fix, but it suggests that changes could be made for that mode only.

I think a minimum requirement would be a point-of-aim dot onscreen for any tools/weapons (and the ability to switch between them while using the suite), and keep the full HUD on the virtual flatscreen - switching between the two with the key-combo wouldn’t be very onerous in my opinion.

I think we'd be lucky to get an aiming reticle, as much as it would be great. A basic version would likely have issues with depth perception / intersecting items etc unless work was done on it. And that's starting to open up a whole can of worms. IE:

Some broader considerations are:
  • Could changes be made to the VR camera alone? [IE only display when in VR mode, and be disabled otherwise?]
  • Would FDev be happy to let the VC become a game mode for VR players alone? [That's a red line under normal circumstances, to prevent 3rd person becoming the optimal gaming view, and so the norm]
  • Would the devs have the capacity to undertake this extra work on top of current VR maintenance etc. [And/or deal with any bugs introduced / impact on the core game].
If a few of those aspects can be met, then we could be getting somewhere. Certainly I'd take a glitchy / uncomfortable reticule over no reticule at all ;)
 
Could changes be made to the VR camera alone? [IE only display when in VR mode, and be disabled otherwise?]
I think so: the VR camera suite doesn’t get the zoom functionality of the flatscreen version and (I think) depth blur, so there already are minor differences between the two.

Although it didn’t show in the recording (due to it being a left-eye view) I was actually using the gun model’s sights when shooting - the laser was fairly accurate but the pistol was shooting to the right. Having a basic, set-distance reticle would be a big improvement over nothing though, but like you say, any programming beyond bug-fixing is probably a no-go. Changing the x-y-z coordinates of a camera view though? We might have a chance 😁
Maybe it was just a bug fix, but it suggests that changes could be made for that mode only.
I think there was a bug report for this, I’ll have to look in my history 🤔
Edit: Yup, got fixed in Update 5 - https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/32730
 
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