Why I prefer ED to EVE... (even incomplete)

EVE Online is almost an Elite/Frontier/First Encounter veteran's dream come true. Trade, economy, building, massive pvp battles. And I've loved the game and played it for years, on and off since 2006 and more recently in a serious way since 2011, even running my own small empire of corporations where a hundred and fifty odd players call me 'Emperor'. And in EVE standards, that's a very very small Empire, smaller even than some corporations.

However, there's always been a major issue in EVE for me which is the player's connection to the world and the ship. There's an abstractness to it which has always left me cold, whether it's organising my planetary mining via moving around pins on a map to the throw-away attitude we EVE players have to our vessels. Hell, one of my maxims is: If you fly it, consider it already lost. There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is that EVE's economy is almost uniquely based on construction of vessels and equipment for those vessels. It's the ultimate money-sink and the entire community, is based around this mentality of fighting and killing other players or producing the stuff people need to fight and kill other players. There are people like me who try our best to protect people and players, especially the new players but we're very much in the minority. Even this attitude has it's own special name which is considered derogatory: care bear.

The attitude of EVE and their parent company CCP very much encourages that EVE is a brutal hard place to live, griefing, piracy, wars are encouraged, rules changed so that the only place you'll ever be safe is in a non-player company. In HighSec space anyway.

Now don't misunderstand me, I have no problem with EVE being a brutal world, it's much easier to be the hero, if everyone around you... isn't. But the way this has manifested in the local economy, the local culture is that it's difficult to build an emotional connection, with your character, your ship, even your fellow players, because in the back of your mind, you know... EVE encourages them to backstab you eventually when you've given them access to your Empire's resources. It's difficult to relax.

Elite, I expect to be a hard world, but I expect it to be a world, where although I can and will lose my ship. It's my ship. Unless I'm a bad combateer, I stand a chance of holding onto that same ship for a decent amount of time, to the point that if I lose it, it will hurt me. And I need that hurt. I need that connection to emotionally invest in the game and in my character. I need to be able to protect my ship, have the ability to flee, even if I stand a chance of getting caught, I need DEATH to have meaning. In EVE, if you have your jump clone updated, other than the loss of your ship and cargo, it has relatively little meaning. This work into showing your ship age with you makes me happy. I want to love and care for my ship and buy it the odd present. In science fiction, the ship is a character, whether it be the Millenium Falcon, the Enterprise (choose one), Serenity or the Battlestar Galactica.

I don't expect ED to be easy, I expect to have to fight to survive, but I also expect that if I fight, I can survive (even if by fighting I mean running away). I want to have and to own, a ship I can love.
 
I tried Eve and found it compelling to play but now I just sit in a station letting my training run because to fly about is to die.

It is also dull with the same here to there missions that dont reward enough.. so the way to get ahead is buy plex and sell them legit for game money.

Now I just sit by bored....

elite seems to encourage exploration.... I look forward to it soo much..
 

Minti2

Deadly, But very fluffy...
I don't expect ED to be easy, I expect to have to fight to survive, but I also expect that if I fight, I can survive (even if by fighting I mean running away). I want to have and to own, a ship I can love.

Mate i can only say, great post on your thoughts! and your probably voicing what so many of us here are hoping for when playing ED.

I to want my ship and me to go through hell and high waters, triumph and wonder in our adventures, and come out scratched but surviving, again great post on what ED could mean to some. ;)
 
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Lestat

Banned
I only played EVE for a short amount of time. When I found I could not control the ship on my own. I stop playing it.
 
I only played EVE for a short amount of time. When I found I could not control the ship on my own. I stop playing it.

Heh, I noticed after I finished the post I'd left that out, but... I figured someone would quickly bring it up ;) But yeah the point and click also adds to that alienation feeling.
 
I can sum up my EVE Online experience as follows:

20 mins in - "ooh, pretty"

1 hour in - "ahh, what a load of ******"

I tried. I really did. An hour of chat messages like "lolz0r, teh bads waz razzd, lol" and the like just really really put me off. All pretty but absolutely no substance and the players (or at least the majority) were just kiddies on there to use it as a social network as far as I could see.
 
I can sum up my EVE Online experience as follows:

20 mins in - "ooh, pretty"

1 hour in - "ahh, what a load of ******"

I tried. I really did. An hour of chat messages like "lolz0r, teh bads waz razzd, lol" and the like just really really put me off. All pretty but absolutely no substance and the players (or at least the majority) were just kiddies on there to use it as a social network as far as I could see.

There are many decent dedicated people in the game and I consider myself lucky to have surrounded myself with many of them, but yeah, the voices are drowned out in the general hub-bub of the cut-throat nature of the game, which, lets be clear is heavily encouraged by CCP who encourage it.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
Mate i can only say, great post on your thoughts! and your probably voicing what so many of us here are hoping for when playing ED.

I to want my ship and me to go through hell and high waters, triumph and wonder in our adventures, and come out scratched but surviving, again great post on what ED could mean to some. ;)

/agree with the above on all counts..... I'd like ED to be the eqivalent of Eve's fanmade "Clear Skies" series. (which are totally tottally awesome and really give off that emotion)...."It's hotdrop o'clock!".....FIRE!!!!!!!

A MUST SEE, even if EvE O doesn't appeal.
 
I've played Eve a bit too but I didn't feel the connection to the ship either. I felt like I was telling the ship which course to take or which ships to target, not actually piloting it's every turn and pulling the trigger just at the right moment to score the hit. It's hard to explain unless you've played it. I don't want to knock what they've achieved but it wasn't like the experience I had when I first played elite.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
I can sum up my EVE Online experience as follows:

20 mins in - "ooh, pretty"

1 hour in - "ahh, what a load of ******"

I tried. I really did. An hour of chat messages like "lolz0r, teh bads waz razzd, lol" and the like just really really put me off. All pretty but absolutely no substance and the players (or at least the majority) were just kiddies on there to use it as a social network as far as I could see.

You really need to utterly ignore the chat channels, keep your head down, and just get on with the tutorials - I had almost no contact with another player until I was at least a week or so into it, and that was because I went to the aid of another player, who then introduced me to his corp - which turned out to be the major corp for new players "Eve University", specifically designed to teach new players how to survive in EvE.

If you ever consider going back, give them a call. - oh and AVOID the Goon Squad at all costs.
 
I think I have to add a little to this thread here because I think some of you seem to come across as a little naive to what is probably going to happen as the future unfolds.

As a long time player of Eve [Some 10 years], through early forums, early alpha, beta and then to full release. As someone whom ran an alliance for all but 5 of those years, I think I can say, I see some similarities here in the replies and comments to what I saw being said a decade ago in Eve's early day forums.

The reality is, the current fan base here [yes you fine hardcore fans on the forums] will be swamped by the masses once this game goes live and exits out of the open beta phase. Yes, it's a long way down the line, a long way down the road but the same thing happened in Eve.

You see, Eve online in the early days was more than what a lot of you here perceive it as now. It was a harsh place yes, but it was one full of colour, honour, respect, excitement, fascinating engaging people and most of all, a deep powerful story line that rippled and resonated through the Eve universe.

As the masses arrived, so did a particular mindset. One of; "I can do what ever I want here, I don't care about the CCP's story line, I'm not interested in it. I'm only interested in feeding my own ego and meta-gaming this thing to death. If it breaks the game or the immersion, not my problem, I paid for it, I play or break it my way. I'll take my char, my alt, my toon ... I'll get a hand full of them and If I find expliots, I'll used them until I'm caught by the devs, I'll hold my hands up and say; "Hey, you caught me, not my fault, you need to fix your game."

The CCP over at Eve tried to combat this, tried and failed. They tried to feed the story into the universe, they tried to catch the exploiters out there but the masses won out. Thus now you'll find Eve nothing more than a pretty, eye candy festering hole built totally on dog eat dog universe. Hardly a place of fun, or a place to enjoy and relax in. That is, unless you get your kicks out of spending your pass time in an obnoxious environment with every other person you meet trying to scam you?

So the question really is here, how with the dev teams here control the likes of meta-gamers, exploiters and the likes? If they deal with them with a firm hand they'll have a class game that will become another legend. If they miss the example of what Eve has become, they risk Elite Dangerous becoming another abused, wrecked game, to the point of being yet another griefing hell hole, abused by anyone who can throw the numbers at it. Did I say goon swarm and their kind of ilk? Oh yes, someone here already has. :)
 
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I really hate everything they stand for... cause pain for everyone who isn't a goon.

The unfortunate fact is, they will be here once the game goes live. The question is, just how much of a negative effect they will have on its gaming community? Elite is a classic, and thus they will flock to this. It just a reality.
 
Thus now you'll find Eve nothing more than a pretty, eye candy festering hole built totally on dog eat dog universe. Hardly a place of fun, or a place to enjoy and relax in. That is, unless you get your kicks out of spending your pass time in an obnoxious environment with every other person you meet trying to scam you?
It does sound like my kinda place. The only reason I don't play Eve is because it doesn't let me pilot my own ship.
 
But you can point and click it!!!! its SOOO much fun.. Like this one time, I like totally clicked on an Asteroid, and my ship like sped up and like orbited it and like an orange laser thingy toats mined the asteroid for FLIPPING AGES and All i got was a few thousand credits..

I now spend my time training for no reason other than I paid and sit inside a station hiding from other players... BUT IT IS pretty
 
So the question really is here, how with the dev teams here control the likes of meta-gamers, exploiters and the likes? If they deal with them with a firm hand they'll have a class game that will become another legend. If they miss the example of what Eve has become, they risk Elite Dangerous becoming another abused, wrecked game, to the point of being yet another griefing hell hole, abused by anyone who can throw the numbers at it. Did I say goon swarm and their kind of ilk? Oh yes, someone here already has. :)

I think you're under-estimating how CCP embraced this philosophy... the more ships are destroyed, the more people need money, it's the basis of the economy and also what generates the need for people to buy PLEX. Which CCP whole-heartedly approves of. Whenever Alex organises one of his mass attack protests, he's actually feeding the EVE economy and making CCP very happy. Which is why they dedicate nodes to his mass events. The more ships die, the more money is needed, the more PLEX is bought. This is why the only time CCP worries about PLEX is when the price goes to high (more for the player, less for CCP).
 
The unfortunate fact is, they will be here once the game goes live. The question is, just how much of a negative effect they will have on its gaming community? Elite is a classic, and thus they will flock to this. It just a reality.

Oh I need bad guys... I need villains, but I don't need their mentality to be almost openly supported by the company that runs the game who even change rules to make no where safe. And Elite will have different levels of involvement.
 
Well I know absolutely nothing first hand of Eve - or any other multiplayer online games (apart from Urban Dead).

But I've read a great deal about Eve and some multiplayer mindsets and griefing activities over the last few weeks.

It seems to me that DB and FD's attitude towards that sort of thing combined with instancing and groups should nullify the worst of "Goon" type behaviour so I'm reasonably hopeful that PacalB's doom laden prophecy won't come to pass...

:eek:
 
I really hate everything they stand for... cause pain for everyone who isn't a goon.

Not having played eve-online for a few years now, I'm hardly qualified to comment on the current situation.

In the past, Goonsquad has played an instrumental part in helping to define the level of corruption within the ranks of CCP (where a lot of CCP staff who played the game were members of Band of Brothers) whose stance was "there is no abuse by any of our staff playing the game" at all times. However, certain eventualities unfolded and CCP were pretty much banged to rights and left with no option but to address the issue and clean up their act. The perpetrators were never named or shamed and as far as I know it was covered up as quickly as possible, but with certain assurances that it would not happen again.

That was the final straw for me in eve-online and I left the game, never to go back.
 
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