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I'd say ideological for the opposite "crowd". Perhaps that's because the two points of view can't accept the presence of unclouded "logic" in the opposite point of view. I certainly only ever see the same flawed points and misunderstandings of what motivates PvP-accepting players and their arguments trotted out repeatedly by the same people arguing that PvP has no place in the game.
To Solo Play Players: If You Could Disable PVP, Would You Play in Open Play Mode Instead?
- Thread starter AMX-008 GaZowmn
- Start date
Credits are basically free though?
Clearly it's not a "PvP game". It's no one thing, one of the great things about the game. The question is should PvP in all features of the game be a footnote (and I count CQC as a footnote in its own right). Particularly when it seems to provide such enhancement in one or two of them. And even then it's not about PvP, but the possibility of it. It's basically never a ubiquitous part of any non-footnote feature of the game, even where it serves to enhance gameplay possibilities by being a potential factor.
You still have to put in some work & time investment for it, and not everyone knows the meta way to earn credits. I've seen newer players bankrupted after failing some EDO ground missions and got heavy fines.
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What logic? That people don't play PP, unless they want to unlock gear? They have to be held hostage for 4 weeks and that doesn't help either - most just grind out the last week to be done with it. You don't understand PvE audience because you look entirely through your PvP glasses.
Quite. While I'd like a pair of PvP glasses as a novelty to pass on to the grandkids, I'm actually a PvEer, it's just that I can accommodate PvP in my game and actually find that the mere possibility of it (and its actual occurrence often and impactfully enough to make me mindful of it) enhances my gameplay. My PvE gameplay. Perhaps what offends you is that I haven't "picked a side"? I'm pretty non-binary when it comes to gameplay.
Of course, really I'm talking mostly about PvEvP gameplay. In pure PvE, e.g. surviving an extremely long exploration trip, then PvP's role is vanishingly small (the handful of unfortunate/foolish people that get blown up losing explo data). That, to me, is not relevant to this thread, unless you insist on everyone handing in data at a live CG system.
Ah, so he was talking rhetorically, not about himself? I'm happy for the game to be accommodating for newer players, just as it was for me (starter zone). But broadly speaking his argument is specious, which suggests he's just spouting to try and irritate people.
If you like credit metas...I don't.
Basically ganking is TAX on my gameplay, either it costs me time, or it costs me credits (which costs me time doing something I prefer not to do...)
Incompatible views don't offend. They're just incompatible. And as such they are of no concern to a big part of the audience.
Incomprehensible ones even more so.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Understanding others' views is not required, suffice to say that they have their own viewpoint.
Like I said, when you look through your tinted glasses there is nothing you would understand.
Yes I probably shouldn't be so reactive, and am probably inferring more malice than I should.
Well likewise
PvP piracy isn't a thing because there's no gameplay associated with it.
It doesn't pay, it's hard to do and for the pirated vessel they shoulder all of the risk and the loss.
That's never going to be compelling gameplay.
There's ways round this, but like a lot of Elite these basic gameplay loops haven't been thought through and left needing some sort of overhaul.
Similarly, the BGS isn't designed to be a PvE or PvP meta - I think FDEV were genuinely surprised by the following NPC factions got (going way back to the Dukes of Mikunn (?) thread) and CMDR engagement with these groups where really it was just the name and the fluff that attracted players.
I think Powerplay was a method of trying to engage those players who wanted "clans", but instead of being developed further (without going into an Open only rabbit hole) it was left static as it was - even the threat of powers disappearing has never happened.
The criticism is that there aren't enough gameplay loops that are rewarding enough and that's even before we look at PvE or PvP type activities.
It doesn't pay, it's hard to do and for the pirated vessel they shoulder all of the risk and the loss.
That's never going to be compelling gameplay.
There's ways round this, but like a lot of Elite these basic gameplay loops haven't been thought through and left needing some sort of overhaul.
Similarly, the BGS isn't designed to be a PvE or PvP meta - I think FDEV were genuinely surprised by the following NPC factions got (going way back to the Dukes of Mikunn (?) thread) and CMDR engagement with these groups where really it was just the name and the fluff that attracted players.
I think Powerplay was a method of trying to engage those players who wanted "clans", but instead of being developed further (without going into an Open only rabbit hole) it was left static as it was - even the threat of powers disappearing has never happened.
The criticism is that there aren't enough gameplay loops that are rewarding enough and that's even before we look at PvE or PvP type activities.
I had a thread many years ago about some kind of split here, but it was quickly shot down.
They could do it somewhat easily (IMHO) by splitting the participants list in two separate ones. You'd need some sort of a flag / field in the DB to track if a player has logged into PG/Solo after joining a CG. If he manages to login only to Open for the duration of the CG (flag is down), then he gets placed on the "Open" participants list. If he logs into another mode, flag is up, he makes the other "General" list. Known reward templates apply to both.
Of course this can be easily circumvented (I mean... there are players scripting station guns on their ships and whatnot) but at least it would be a step forward. Right now I see little incentive to punish myself to Open and build a blockade runner and maybe manage to deliver 50T in a session among a bazillion highwakes, when I could just join the players in Solo and unload some FC in a shieldless Cutter and just make bank.
No problem with either gameplay styles, it's just idiotic to have both lead to the same competitive participants list.
Yes, it's ideological don't you know
And what's frustrating is that there's no middle ground. It's either occasional wet paper bag NPCs to annoy you, or always-on (at peak times) PvP murderzone hauling. Which is a gameplay design issue.
I actually came up, not actually very jokingly in fact, with a design for a "CG to reduce CMDR murder rate in Deciat"
, including a scoring system that I felt couldn't, or wouldn't be particularly gamed.