The Open v Solo v Groups thread

Old Duck

Old Duck
Speaking of PvP, does any MMO get it right? For example, my experience of PvP in Elder Scrolls Online (specifically Cyrodiil) has been a complete disappointment to me. It's basically empty. Now I know it isn't "truly" empty, but feels just as empty as Open in Elite.

The best large-scale PvP game I've ever played was MAG (Massive Action Game) way back on PS3. It was kinda like early Battlefield but with way more players and huge battlefields. For reasons I don't fully understand, it was way more fun that COD and Battlefield. I think it was the large scope, well-designed levels and objectives, and huge player numbers which greatly diluted the inevitable "idiots" on your team. There was also a type of BGS in play, where each individual battle influenced the overall war.

I watch Infinity: Battlescape hoping it will become the MAG of space games, but so far that hasn't happened.
 

Darrack

Darrack
Old Duck said:
my experience of PvP in Elder Scrolls Online (specifically Cyrodiil) has been a complete disappointment to me
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Cyrodiil at the start was a masterpiece and by far and away the best PvP in any MMO including the early days of WOW when folks like Worm were active.
It was perfect for PvP with sieges and all, we had organised groups and a really decent helpful community, it was prolly my best PVP achievement getting Grand Overlord and some nights you could just sit on a wall defending and chat the night away.
Even the PVE community could get their skyshards as you could basically stealth the whole place and most PvPers never went in the caves, sure the opposing faction shards were fun to get!!

But then they ruined it with the Hammer of no skill (Volendrung) and endless healing nerfs, the only viable map was then the No CP campaign.
Plus there was the 'Emperor rigging' as the developers refused to faction lock.
ESO fell the way of most PvP games, those who couldn't be bothered to learn and adapt just called for nerfs on everything, but now im rambling.

In short i think Cyrodiil is the only PVE/PVP zone ive ever seen work BUT you could still get ganked by some muppet camping skyshards, the difference was we could see those muppets and shame them.

And here's the relevant bit, it was entirely optional, you didn't NEED to go there and that's the point, its not like JM or any engineer zone you care to mention, it was entirely separate from the core game.

O7
 

Ettanin

E
ethelred said:
If we had open only features that didn't affect the BGS, would that be functionally any different to a whole new PvP Open galaxy?
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If they are still relevant for gameplay, i.e. special engineers or special modules, they become a problem and basically forced.
 

ethelred

ethelred
Ettanin said:
If they are still relevant for gameplay, i.e. special engineers or special modules, they become a problem and basically forced.
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Nope. I think the only way for sth like that to be implemented would be using your existing equipment gained in the usual way.

I was thinking more along the lines of (at a basic level) an Open CZ, Open Trade Route etc.

Maybe a "i was brave" decal, as reward?
 

Ettanin

E
Tradeoff idea:
Being destroyed or incapacitated by a CMDR or through their assistance (in a mixed battle) in less than 20 seconds after their first hostile action will negate any and all loss of mission, cargo, cartography data and other lossables on destruction or incapacitation and change the rebuy cost (if incurred) to zero, effectively negating any and all consequences of ship, SRV destruction or loss of consciousness planetside. Bounties and other legal fees will still apply as normal. If multiple CMDRs are attacking, the latest of the first hostile actions apply, meaning the timer resets.

If the hostile CMDR intentionally delays the battle to make you lose, you have the time to gracefully log out to avoid that.

While this won't make PvP any more consensual, non-consensual clubbing form of PvP isn't as harmful to a helpless CMDR anymore.
 
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baneofcows

B
Ettanin said:
Tradeoff idea:
Being destroyed or incapacitated by a CMDR or through their assistance (in a mixed battle) in less than 20 seconds after their first hostile action will negate any and all loss of mission, cargo, cartography data and other lossables on destruction or incapacitation and change the rebuy cost (if incurred) to zero, effectively negating any and all consequences of ship, SRV destruction or loss of consciousness planetside. Bounties and other legal fees will still apply as normal. If multiple CMDRs are attacking, the latest of the first hostile actions apply, meaning the timer resets.
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Potentially related:

The first time I got myself shot to pieces in a ground CZ, and respawned with my side having lost points, but with my stuff and combat bonds intact, I remember thinking to myself, "Well, hell, if all CZs and PvP worked like this, I'd fight in Open a lot more often."

I didn't want my side to lose, of course. (And hoo boy, did we lose.) But it did take the sting out of getting my butt that badly kicked.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Ettanin said:
Bonus ARX would be fair as well. ARX are cosmetics only and it would allow you to choose the reward instead of making any exclusive.
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I play in open, playing in Open doesn't warrant any special reward. It's the engaging in PvP bit that could potentially warrant special treatment, but imo it would be too easily abused. Open play & the requirement to be prepared to put ones Cmdr in harms way is its own reward for those that want it.

That said I like the idea of an 'I was brave!' decal :D
 

ethelred

ethelred
Yes, for the nth time, death should be challenging but not punishing.

It's silly that we take credits and equipment forward (given rebuy) but not mission cargo, or most egregious of all, explo data.

Surely for some "extra insurance" or a sub £20 SDD we can save this data?
 

Ettanin

E
ethelred said:
Not sure if /s but I meant with a £20 solid state drive we could save the exploration data so you don't lose it on destruction...
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ah i wasn't sure about the abbreviation and the mentioning of a real world currency.

still, i think taking out the risk of loss in any way shape or form would be a good compromise if a cmdr was involved in the demise.
 

Felix DiCestria

Felix DiCestria
ethelred said:
Yes, for the nth time, death should be challenging but not punishing.

It's silly that we take credits and equipment forward (given rebuy) but not mission cargo, or most egregious of all, explo data.

Surely for some "extra insurance" or a sub £20 SDD we can save this data?
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Has that changed since Odyssey dropped?
I know I don't loose bonds or such after a rebuy now.
 

Miscellaneous

Miscellaneous
Just an idea, an effective foil for serial civilian killers might be, that system authority groadcasts beware they are on a manhunt for a serial killer on the system channel. Also, putting a notification number indicating unread status changes in the history tab (similar to the number of unread messages, and social requests, etc.)

Perhaps get an interstellar police chasing them if they kill commanders in multiple systems.

Anyway yeah I loaded solo mode once after I got blown up on the landing pad (I wonder if he got away!). In retrospect I felt cheapened and should have just waited or tried again -- he probably had then fled the port authority anyway!
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
rootsrat
What about this:

- Remove block function
- Very high cap on bounty (or no cap at all)
- When you have Notoriety > 0 you CANNOT log into PG or Solo
- When you have Notorietty > 0 a dynamic bookmark for your current location is created for all Commanders to see where you are)
- Additionally all current C&P rules apply
 

Riverside

Riverside
CMDR rupee noon said:
Just an idea, an effective foil for serial civilian killers might be, that system authority groadcasts beware they are on a manhunt for a serial killer on the system channel. Also, putting a notification number indicating unread status changes in the history tab (similar to the number of unread messages, and social requests, etc.)

Perhaps get an interstellar police chasing them if they kill commanders in multiple systems.

Anyway yeah I loaded solo mode once after I got blown up on the landing pad (I wonder if he got away!). In retrospect I felt cheapened and should have just waited or tried again -- he probably had then fled the port authority anyway!
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Naming & Shaming individual players isn't allowed on this forum, however there is no such rule in the game & we do have bounty boards, visible once one makes it to dock by which time any player has probably already found out about a significant PvP threat in that system. Automated broadcasts via system chat could be a good way to convey the same basic info as a bounty board (or other stats as you suggest) so that Cmdrs are given an earlier warning. I can imagine the most successful/notorious ganker-type Cmdrs would take some pride in being in the top-5, and if there were some additional handicap applied to those Cmdrs ships (eg constantly harassed by NPCs or making their interdictors or defences somehow less effective) it might encourage those in the top-5 to move on, to allow some others to take over the top spots in turn. Something similar for superpower bounties might have a similar effect in multiple systems.

So I quite like that idea.

It is not unusual at all for a player first venturing into open to get popped by another player, and it can have a profound effect on the loser to realise just how much harder hitting another player can be compared to the NPCs they are used to dominating. It happened to me too, but I stayed in Open & learned to mitigate the risk.
Get back on the horse that threw you ;)
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
rootsrat said:
What about this:

- Remove block function
- Very high cap on bounty (or no cap at all)
- When you have Notoriety > 0 you CANNOT log into PG or Solo
- When you have Notorietty > 0 a dynamic bookmark for your current location is created for all Commanders to see where you are)
- Additionally all current C&P rules apply
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Notoriety applies to PvE actions too.

Why should players be forced to play in Open for engaging in PvE - especially given that other players are optional in the game we all bought / backed?

.... and I very much doubt that Frontier would seriously consider removing the block feature, given "some players".
 
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