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  • Britney's Avatar
    Today, 5:02 PM · 8076 replies and 582331 views.
    But what is that product legally? What is it exactly that you are buying?
  • Britney's Avatar
    Today, 4:53 PM · 8076 replies and 582331 views.
    What does that mean? What does that purchase contain legally?
  • Britney's Avatar
    Today, 4:40 PM · 8076 replies and 582331 views.
    That all sounds like a mess to me. In the mentioned example the guy doesn't have to pay the money back as he already spent it. Sounds promising :D But please, provided sources for your points. How do you tell what legal category a purchase on the Star Citizen website is part of? What is your source here?
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    Today, 4:21 PM · 8076 replies and 582331 views.
    As it is, until today, not clear to me what happens with a crowdfunding project that fails: Can you please demonstrate what will happen when CIG should fail to deliver the promised product. What is the specific legal framework here?
  • Britney's Avatar
    Today, 3:59 PM · 8076 replies and 582331 views.
    Is there a official list of the number of the expenses for employees and facilities somewhere, giving clear data over all the years from 2011? I haven't seen that yet. My impression is that nobody actually knows the basics even. The question "How many people work for CIG?" gets complicated already when you take the outsourced work into account (video production, parts of the software, creation of 3D-models etc.). There is a lot of guessing going on about how much the company has spend already and how much cash is left. The funny thing is that all this guesswork happens without having any clear facts about these aspects. Nobody knows how trustworthy the funding-counter is, are there other sources of income, are there loans, are there buffers of any sort, is Roberts a multi-million-dollar guy who can just pump another 10 Million Dollars into the company, what are several hundred people exactly doing and what is their salary, etc. Nobody knows anything about this stuff, neither fans nor critics.
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    Today, 3:52 PM · 8076 replies and 582331 views.
    Yes. We have different opinions about what the product is in the case of Star Citizen. Although the company's official narrative is to collect funds to pay for the production of a game, I would not call that game, whatever it is supposed to be in the end, the product. The product was and is the promise for the product that you can buy in the store. Or to formulate it even more abstract, you pay for work that has to be done to produce a product (in whatever exact form), you don't pay for a specific product. A crowdfunding company is not prepaying infrastructure and workforce to produce something and then sell it to make a profit. A crowdfunding company sells the promise for a product to pay for infrastructure and workforce to produce something. Only in an idealist world such a company would spend all the funds received on producing a product, not making profit in the process.
  • Britney's Avatar
    Today, 3:13 PM · 8076 replies and 582331 views.
    Well yeah, you guess what costs they had, but on what basis. And I emphasize it again: Profit has already been made, if the publicly stated income is correct. They sold a product to people, they actually sold concepts and graphics to people for several hundred US-Dollars. They employed workers to produce marketing material and sold this to people. That is making profit like every other company is making profit. The only difference here is that the sold product is not the actual product, but the promise for a product that is defined in very vague manner. Honestly, I doubt that larger chunks of that money will be paid back, on what basis exactly is this supposed to happen? All this doesn't change that individuals working for or through this company received salaries for their work. I am not sure how much the salary is for top-level positions at CIG.
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    Today, 2:46 PM · 8076 replies and 582331 views.
    It still is no good idea to confuse to points with each other - financial income and profit - the production of a complete game Crowdfunding established a rift exactly here, because people didn't pay for already produced product anymore, but funded a production process that is said or marketed to generate a certain outcome. Common sense tells you that the outcome of the production process can only be guessed. The product can be good, bull or even never come into being. If the production process fails the transaction was still already done and money was made through the production process. Salaries were paid, infrastructure was bought, investment capital was acquired etc., etc. Maybe it also has to be distinguished between the profit of the company and the profit of individuals. If the whole thing was a zero sum game for the company, this doesn't mean that it was not profitable for the indivuals who received payment through that company. This is nothing uncommon in any way: people ruin companies,...
  • Britney's Avatar
    Today, 2:33 PM · 8076 replies and 582331 views.
    How do you know how much they paid for the development and marketing so far, and how much of the funding could be forwarded to the people involved through salaries? How do you know the millions of dollars they received where only burnt, but not used to generate additional income? In what way are they accountable to deliver a product that fits a specific definition of 'a game'? (btw, as I see it, they already delivered their product and received payment for that. Additionally, vocal parts of the fanbase are ok with losing their cash anyway.)
  • Britney's Avatar
    Today, 2:06 PM · 8076 replies and 582331 views.
    Absolutely. My impression is that actually nobody outside this company can tell how much funding this company actually had or has at all. This simple fact is messed up by all sides though, who make up claims to proove their points (the company has enough cash to make the game vs. the company will die soon). All baseless arguments. One should also be careful to not confuse the making of the game and financial success. If the company made about $150 millions, it is a very, very profitable enterprise. If they are clever, and I don't see anything speaking against that, they don't have to pay anything of that back. They made that cash and it doesn't matter in any way, if the game comes out or not. I would call that an inviting environment for investors, especially between 2013 and 2016.
  • Britney's Avatar
    Today, 1:16 PM · 8076 replies and 582331 views.
    Their campaign was contradictory in that regard. On the kickstarter page you can still read the following: "We have investors that have agreed to contribute the balance we need to complete this game as long as we can validate that there is a demand for a high end PC space game. By meeting or surpassing our target on Kickstarter you tell the world that you want a PC based Space Sim and allow us to make this game." So the idea was: collect a decent amount of money through crowdfunding --> investors will hand out additional funds. Who these investors are or were, and how much funding they provided or would have provided was never made transparent. Anyway, this shows that the very original concept was not based on pure crowdfunding, and there has always been the possibility that funds from other sources form the basis for the project. Edit: btw.: I don't like when people make up arguments without referring to sources. Fans or critics alike...
  • Britney's Avatar
    Today, 10:21 AM · 8076 replies and 582331 views.
    It is impossible to know how much funding the company has outside of crowdfunding. The model for SC in the beginning was, at least it was told so, to crowdfund only a part of the game to then get investors on board who provide additional funds to complete the game. Nobody knows if CIG maybe has borrowed several dozen millions from a bank, or if deals with companies like AMD or faceware provide additional funding. So I wouldn't assume that they only have what is made visible on the website. This funding tracker is totally marketing anyways.
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