Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[MTBFritz]

The scam hypothesis fits all the facts better than any other.

Shocking right?

I think you are all being trolled masterly atm

Sure but we dont go down the smack-talking, personal attack routine like other places (thanks to the mods). Often enough I dont even consider the person I m replying to because its too appearant hes not even reading or accepting what I post (all the people who say "wow you post a lot, I didnt read" and think they are cool dont realize they ve been had at that point) but I put my reply out there for whoever else might read it thinking about this project. This certainly was important for me years back when I was first drawn into the SC debate.

Watch any debate with an audience. The people on stage dont talk to each other and they will never change each others view because they know all the points, all the arguments and all the counters. Its always about winning the crowd. Thats what signals a "victory" or "defeat" and its not hollow either because people will believe you or think you are just breathing air based on your posts.

Only if you want it to fit so much that you can't see past it

Oh the irony

Beautiful game. If it was a space simulation I will certainly be playing it now. It just lacks all I love in SC.
I don't know a space simulation with better graphics than SC. If you know one, just tell us.

Star Citizen isnt it

Its not a simulation for sure. All the jokes we had with the "simulated atmosphere" years ago ( you remember, you ve been a backer since 2013) or the flight model oh my sides. AI is all scripts, no simulation. Is gravity simulated? Or is it a "stick" code that allows to walk on the station and float as soon as you manage to get your feet off? Are magnetic soles actually a thing or just a possible explanation? So if pretty much everything in Star Citizen is "hacked" what exactly is simulated or how much do you have to pervert the term "simulation" for it to apply to Star Citizen?

Imagine if they had the competence or honesty to say duing the kickstarter that what they had planned then was going to take about 6-7 years to devleop,

Imagine if, when they kept offering stretch goals, instead of CR saying the addition of more goals and more funding wouldn't significantly delay features they would instead have said, the more we add, the longer it will take. That was the honest thing to say.

For all we know they could have said that. They already got more money then they needed right? There was absolutely no legut reason to keep lying about it. If they really didnt know how long it would take thats already speaking volumes. And if they did and continued in order to get more money then we are back with the "money is more important then the game" narrative and evaluating everything CIG has done over the years this seems the most believable to me. In combination with CIG struggling with basic things of course. These guys have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

The 2012 trailer was CIGs "lucky break" and they managed with a lot of hardship and massive delay to reach an approximation of that trailer. They added more that was never intended or planned and helps to distract but at the same time it doesnt deliver what the trailer promised.

 

[MTBFritz]

gezus. I post a couple posts and everybody scatters.....cowards

 

[Tippis]

In more relevant news…

Somehow the SA conversation veered off in the direction of Bond title spoofs and… well…

Spoiler: Oh dear…

 

[n4p0l3on]

The 2012 trailer was CIGs "lucky break" and they managed with a lot of hardship and massive delay to reach an approximation of that trailer. They added more that was never intended or planned and helps to distract but at the same time it doesnt deliver what the trailer promised.

2012 was Crobber's lucky break not CIG.

 

[MTBFritz]

2012 was Crobber's lucky break not CIG.

Yeah I meant that without that trailer I m pretty sure CIG wouldnt ve received that kind of kickstarter money to begin with. People dont care about the person doing something. Nobody cared about Chris Roberts leading this. It was the icing on top after he caught peoples attention with that "faked" trailer. And learning that it wasnt even done by CIG puts it into the correct perspective and explains why the company is struggling so much

 

[Factabulous]

People dont care about the person doing something. Nobody cared about Chris Roberts leading this.

Um, not how I remember it at all. The big thing at the time was two previous big hitters (CR & DBOBE) getting back into a new space race.Pretty sure if he'd published a pic of a post-it with 'Star Citizen' on it people would have backed.

 

[Vasious]

...something where someone repeatedly and constantly says he/she is going to do something... and asks for your money for it, and then he/she does not do it.

Electioneering

 

[MTBFritz]

Um, not how I remember it at all. The big thing at the time was two previous big hitters (CR & DBOBE) getting back into a new space race.Pretty sure if he'd published a pic of a post-it with 'Star Citizen' on it people would have backed.

Some people probably knew but most people commenting on SC usually share "I had no idea who Chris Roberts was" and I also didnt. I knew Wing Commander. Didnt know he was involved. He claimed to be responsible for it and I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Years later I learned he was the guy who drove WC into a corner same as SC. And no doubt some people would have backed it but without that trailer SC wouldnt ve reached its kickstarter goal....pretty sure of that. You catch flies with (eye) honey or whats the saying?

 

[Factabulous]

Some people probably knew but most people commenting on SC usually share "I had no idea who Chris Roberts was" and I also didnt. I knew Wing Commander. Didnt know he was involved. He claimed to be responsible for it and I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Years later I learned he was the guy who drove WC into a corner same as SC. And no doubt some people would have backed it but without that trailer SC wouldnt ve reached its kickstarter goal....pretty sure of that. You catch flies with (eye) honey or whats the saying?

I'm not sure what narrative you're going for here. "SC is a scam, and it's all the fault of Crytek for doing a good demo"? Personally I think it was more "CR created a cult of personality, allowing CiG to over-promise and under-deliver'

I'm sure that yes, now you will see people drawn in by the (current) pics from the game who have no idea who CR are, but after all, it is 6+ years later ...

 

[ECity]

Chris and Sandi hasn't been seen lately, it's a good news no ? For you, CR is the worst manager ever so anybody replacing him will be better...

Adding to your list of hilarious responses:

• CIG is transparent and open, while hiding major development items on the roadmap.
• Development is delayed because they had to build companies (ignoring the obvious that they could have released as they built, like Frontier and Mojang did).
• Development is delayed by things like complex FOIP (ignoring the obvious that FOIP could wait until after release)
• SC is a great and playable game! But it can't be criticized because it's not a game.
• The roadmap is so short because everyone was complaining about lack of hitting goals
• Poor little CIG got surprised by the success of the Kickstarter so that makes it OK they chose the wrong engine.
• Heroic CIG hired developers from Crytek after Crytek "collapsed"
• The two founders of the Kickstarter have disappeared so it's a great time to give the project more money!

 

[Skizomeuh]

I'm not sure what narrative you're going for here. "SC is a scam, and it's all the fault of Crytek for doing a good demo"? Personally I think it was more "CR created a cult of personality, allowing CiG to over-promise and under-deliver'

I'm sure that yes, now you will see people drawn in by the (current) pics from the game who have no idea who CR are, but after all, it is 6+ years later ...

You know, the line between a cult and a scam is quite thin...

 

[Number2]

Regarding the allegations of Scam, do we mean a fraud as in a crime?
If so have the FBI / Law enforcement been involved? I would have thought that someone would have been public spirited enough to report this to the authorities. It seems odd that a $300000000 fraud would be ignored, Would they not love to seize some boats and mansions
We can go around in circles here discussing it for years but an interesting thing will be to test the allegations in court.

It was disappointing for some of us that the Crytec issue did not go to court as it may have given us an independent judgement on some of the things that we discuss.

The only other way to know who is right is to wait for peoples predictions to come to fruition or fail. I notice that both sides tend not to make predictions very much, presumably as they do not want to be shown to be wrong, like the now much muted "Dark Warlord of the internet" was on many occasions. A very quick (and none forensic) look back at the predictions that folk have made in the last few weeks. reveals very few and those mostly have caveats. (if that is the right word- what I mean is that people make it clear that the think they are saying is just their current opinion)

I saw:-
one saying that it would be 2023 before a 2nd system is complete,
One saying that salvaging is years away,
One implying the 50 player cap is forever. ( I think I recall the Dark lord saying that it is technically impossible to have 12 players in a instance, on line somewhere)
One saying the game will never be released ( which goes against what the agent seems to be suggesting)

If I had the time I would go back through previous versions to see what was predicted and if it came true.

The seemingly pointless arguments are why I try not to get into spats with folk who have cemented opinions. If you post something and it is deliberately taken out of context or disingenuously misrepresented, I just let it lie, anyone who cares to look can make there own conclusions.

 

[Mole HD]

No. It's the best objective fitting of the facts to a hypothesis. Why would I "want" any particular conclusion? I don't care.

I think you 'care' a lot more than either Sovapid or I do, you're certainly more obssessive about the project...considering both Sovapid and I are concierge level backers

 

[Viajero]

• Development is delayed because they had to build companies (ignoring the obvious that they could have released as they built, like Frontier and Mojang did)

This thing about having to "build companies" is also a common misconception/rationalization.

At the start 2011-2014 period (and also way beyond to this day) CIG has had a whole array of already organized and professional companies working for them in all different key areas of the development: Ex CryEngine staff, Kythera / Moon Collider, Turbulent, Illfonic, CGBot, Behaviour Interactive, and also tons of freelance contractor outfits, Virtuos, Red Hot CG, Rmory etc to name a few.

To even suggest CIG had to build from scratch in order to develop is a bit disingenuous or uninformed at best, and downright lying/misleading at worst.

 

[n4p0l3on]

Some people probably knew but most people commenting on SC usually share "I had no idea who Chris Roberts was" and I also didnt. I knew Wing Commander. Didnt know he was involved. He claimed to be responsible for it and I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Years later I learned he was the guy who drove WC into a corner same as SC. And no doubt some people would have backed it but without that trailer SC wouldnt ve reached its kickstarter goal....pretty sure of that. You catch flies with (eye) honey or whats the saying?

well you're wrong about this one, SC initial KS's success was precisely due to backers knowledge and fond memories with CR and his games, the hype was gaining traction months before the initial KS campaign because at that time several months before the KS there was this big news in PC gaming communities that CR the creator of WC would made a come back.

Wing Commander creator making a new game

Chris Roberts has been out of the gaming public eye for more than 15 years since his work on the highly acclaimed Wing Commander games. But now, a...

www.shacknews.com

the news title summed it up, you're therefore wrong.

 

[Tippis]

Imagine if people had checked on his actual involvement in the Wing Commander games…

 

[Mole HD]

I wasn't really aware of who CR was when I bought into SC, strangely enough. It was only via this place I found out about his non involvement with Wing Commander and ultimately Freelancer.

Personally, I've never looked on CR as in the same league as the likes of David Braben and Ian Bell (many others too)...he's a boyish dreamer who has created nothing of note on his own cognisance without standing on the shoulders and taking credit for the work of others with significantly more talent, nothing more than that.

David Braben and Ian Bell are more than just dreamers, they were and still are creators and engineers. You can't use those same 2 words to describe Chris Roberts...in any way, shape or form.

It would be like describing Winston Churchill as a great military tactician. He almost has as many failures... costing ultimately 10's of thousands of lives from Gallipoli to Dunkirk and Dieppe. At least CR hasn't got those pearlers on his plate

 

[MTBFritz]

I'm not sure what narrative you're going for here. "SC is a scam, and it's all the fault of Crytek for doing a good demo"? Personally I think it was more "CR created a cult of personality, allowing CiG to over-promise and under-deliver'

I'm sure that yes, now you will see people drawn in by the (current) pics from the game who have no idea who CR are, but after all, it is 6+ years later ...

What narrative?

The part you quote says that who chris roberts was at the time was secondary. The trailer was the main attraction. CR and his claims were icing on the top. Years later looks is still the only trump card of Star Citizen and we now know in hindsight that the trailer that got it all started wasnt even Roberts work. Thats all.

well you're wrong about this one, SC initial KS's success was precisely due to backers knowledge and fond memories with CR and his games, the hype was gaining traction months before the initial KS campaign because at that time several months before the KS there was this big news in PC gaming communities that CR the creator of WC would made a come back.

Well I watched the kickstarter and followed it for a while. And I witnessed a lot of people who didnt have a clue who he was. This also was a "thing" long after CIG moved its funding drive to its own homepage. The flashy videos and prommises were the attraction. Chris Roberts as a person was a sideshow and mostly there as reassurance. So maybe it became more important at some point but I dont think CR was the honey in all this. This is just my view from that past perspective. You say otherwise but for all I know you simply share your view or do you have hard data to back up your verdict?

The article doesnt say WHY people flock to the project. It simply provides more information. I dont think I m wrong but it doesnt matter if we dont see it the same way. I never claimed to have a definitive answer. After all this topic even argues the exact starting date of development for christs sake. I still think the attraction and driving force for the kickstarters success has been the trailer which wasnt Roberts own work.

I wasn't really aware of who CR was when I bought into SC, strangely enough.

Sorry to use you Mole but @n4p0l3on see what I m talking about? So you are wrong?

 

[Sanya V. Juutilainen]

Beautiful game. If it was a space simulation I will certainly be playing it now. It just lacks all I love in SC.
I don't know a space simulation with better graphics than SC. If you know one, just tell us.

Star Citizen isn't a space simulation either, so there's that. Until they fix their flight model into something else than "We input some numbers according to how we think it should fly" it won't be a simulation.

 

[Mole HD]

Star Citizen isn't a space simulation either, so there's that. Until they fix their flight model into something else than "We input some numbers according to how we think it should fly" it won't be a simulation.

Don't forget orbital mechanics....or the lack of. Star Citizen's planets and moons revolve on their axes but are otherwise completely static, a physical and astronomical impossibility...

...Just in case anyone was really wondering why Quantum travel in SC consists of straight lines between 2 fixed points, if they attempted to simulate orbital mechanics at any point in the far future...none of it would work. This inevitably happens when some idiot designs a mode of travel before working out how it could and should be utilised correctly